Is the rowing machine a viable option to hit upper-back?

>encompassing even more joints than squats.
it's basically a sitting high pull

Rowing is great for shape, though not for sheer size/volume- but there is no real reason to be any bigger than a rower, because a rower is what most people consider an epitome of athleticism, and everything above it as weird.

These guys here have never done rowing. I go to an old elite British university, so I know. Rowers are very well built. And proper rowing actually uses your leg muscles to generate 80% of the rowing power/stroke, with back and arms providing the rest, but still getting a damn good workout.

Rowing is a very explosive movement. You are not meant to row rapidly, no more than 25 strokes a minute. (20 recommended). Your speed on a river comes from a single explosive movement that means you have to use your legs / squat muscle group to generate a quick strong force and finish it off with your back and arms.

Real rowers who become jacked use a setting of about 6.5 in their machines, that's all you need, but if you are an edge lord, go and do it to 10.

In reality, rowing >>> lifting. You might as well just join a rowing club, it's extremely fun, I promise. But yeah. Give the machine a try. Just make sure you learn the technique PROPERLY from youtube, instead of improvising it incorrectly. The power all comes from your legs, remember that.

Will rowing help improve upper body posture? Rounded shoulders, forward head etc

Rowings good for the forearms I've found.

If you use proper form. You will need instruction to get proper form.

Nice to know. I'll look for a gym with rowing machine.

Imagine picking a weight for deadlift that you can do 600 times in a row, it's not a muscle builder. Throw the damper on 4 and do a 2k row as fast as you can. Next workout add 10 seconds to your split time and row a 6k. You'll see its the most painful cardio you can do

It's just cardio.

But, it's pretty good cardio.

t. dyel

>most people consider epitome of altheticism

Implying I'm lifting for girls faggot.

>everything above it is weird

Cope + jealousy

yeah

Bro, try rowing 2k under 9 minutes at the end of your workout and tell me it's not good for building muscle.

Yeah, it's a cardio machine, but you're using your muscles to pull the handle and pushing with your legs for a whole bunch of reps. You can pull as hard as you want or as softly as you want. It's almost like a variable-weight low pulley machine with a sliding seat. Shit's dope as fuck.

It shouldn't be your main back builder, of course, but you can and should throw it in every once in a while.

It's not that hard to learn proper form. I taught myself. But I also played sports all my life and have a decent understanding of athletic movements in general.

>> but you're using your muscles to pull the handle and pushing with your legs for a whole bunch of reps.
>reps
Man i just finished a thousand reps on the leg machine

i can do 2k in six, and i'm not fit. maybe the machines at my gym are baby mode

Yes, I am a dyel, I don't lift, and why should I? Rowing and other sports give me a beautiful fine physique that gives a sense of athleticism but not of obsessiveness, and I enjoy my time bonding with a team.

If you don't lift for girls but for rich pianas who want to see how large you can inflate yourself, go ahead, get your roids and plates and muse in the corner over your barbell.

Thats an amazing time. What was the difficulty setting? Did you go very rapidly and compromising on power?

In a real boat you'd expect 8 mins for 2km for a person with solid fitness.

Yeah that's pretty fucking good. I struggle to get 500 meters under 1:50. Are you tall by chance? Cuz I'm a man let, short arms, short legs and I gotta stroke like a mother fucker to get ok times.

People don't realise that the settings aren't difficulties. Small people who set the machine on full are asking for trouble. And just cause that freak at the gym has it on 10/10 for 1200m on a warm up twice a week doesn't mean a damn thing.

The higher the setting the closer to a large heavy boat. Meaning it's harder to get up to speed but maintains speed for longer...

The lower the setting the lighter the boat... The faster the acceleration but the faster it grinds to a halt against the water resistance. (well air resistance)

I don't know much about magnetic rowers other than you should stay away from them. And I don't know about these water rowers although I have seen a few seasons of house of cards.

Also the bearing wear is different and has an effect. What is a 6/10 on an old machine with a million kilometres can be a 9/10 with new bearing. If you're at the gym you want to use the same machine each time or learn the command to view the actual resistance. I learned about this after buying a concept 2 and have had it set at 4/10 and I'm 213lbs. In the gym with a new machine I'd be probably have it at 6/10.

You can bitch an moan all you want about it being soft mode, that's fine if you're doing 2k once a week. But trying knocking out 5-10k at the same setting. It's not something you can do every day.

The resistance and difficulty on the rower has more to do with how much you pull. The harder you pull the more resistance you have to fight against. Turning it up to 10 and toddling on with 9 minute 2ks will get you nowhere. The trick is to find out which setting naturally lets you get the fasted time. Once you get to that point the improvement begins.

Once you get there you start looking at strategy like starting 5% faster than your average time and finishing 5% slower.

Go to fast at the start or trying to maintain a steady average is a great way to punish yourself and get nowhere.

I've been on rowing team...I think it's pure cardio. Speaking theoretically I guess you could do nothing but 500m sprints and it would build up some muscle. But not as effectively as just lifting weights.

So do it as cardio if you enjoy it, but make sure you have proper form because people at the gym all do it wrong.

Thank you for the informative post. I learned a lot about settings. I use the same machine at my gym. I'll have to fuck with those settings some more. I still think that taller ppl have a distinct advantage though because they can travel farther per pull. I'm 5'7", 160 btw.

Erging is straight mental hell, like youd have any idea about what its like to actually push yourself. Do what the other user said and sprint a 2k under 10min, youll finally see how truly out of shape you are
>best is 7:40ish and thats just cause I rowed

60% of that is legs

my butt is sore as fuck after doing this for HIIT

Bump

You can't do a 2k in 6. Maybe you're not using the standard concept 2. Sub 6 is a world class athlete time.

Protip. Listen to DnB mixes while rowing. The tempo works out to a consisent 20-22spm.

MAY UR ERGOS BE FAT AS FUCK

The erg is great for HIIT but its resistance isn't enough for muscle building. You CAN build muscle by pulling a loaded prowler/sled and the motion is identical. In which case, great for traps, rhomboids and posterior delts

Been rowing 10 odd years and it doesn't really build muscle outside of legs, but is the best form of cardio. Also 6:01 2k 15:57 5k master race.

The average rowing chick makes your gym cardio bunny look like an unfit pig too.

>tfw ending your workout with a 5 minute balls to the wall rowing race against your bro

Lights my shit up

>walk into monday morning winter erg practice
>feeling pretty good
>coach tells us we are doing an hour of power
>mfw

Erging sucks but it is legitimately the best form of cardio IMHO. Rip fat ergos whenever you can family.

>when you hear the phrase 'power 10'

I started using it as a warmup instead of elliptical crap. I figure it warms up your shoulders, elbows and lower-back a lot more than just a normal cardio machine.
>PROTIP: Always have it on max resistance, what are you a gurl?

I want a rower but I don't want to spend 1200 on a concept 2. Are magnetic rowers any good?

The only piece of equipment you need to fit is weights and jump rope

try to find a used one

I just started out a few weeks ago (got a concept 2 model D), and I can do 7k in 28 minutes, so I think I could do 2k in under 10 mins. Gonna try tomorrow.

New rower here, a few questions.
1. does the little lever on the circular part of the machine measure resistance? (if so will changing it alter your meter output per stroke?)
2. you guys have been throwing out times, I did 2k in barely over 9 minutes and that seemed pretty easy going, what's the s/500m rate that tells you you've "made it"?
3. Should the movement be one smooth motion? the internet makes it sound like segmented movements that shouldn't overlap
4. I feel like I'm not getting enough power through my legs / my knees feel sketchy when I slide all the way out on the seat, any tips?

1. the lever changes basically "what kind of boat you're rowing in". 1 is a small speed shell, 10 is a large, slow row-boat that is hard to accelerate and that slows down quickly if you stop supplying force. The overall power output (calories burned) is still the same regardless of settings, 1 just makes you row very fast, 10 very strongly. How much power you output is not determined by the lever, but by how hard & fast you pull.
2. dunno, I've not been at it for that long myself 3. concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/tips-and-general-info/using-the-force-curve
4. all the way out in which direction? Check out the form videos on the concept2 website or search on youtube. You don't need to move forward THAT much, in the example videos they generally leave a good 20cm or so of chain outside of the machine when in the catch position.

great answers, thanks. and I meant locking my legs out feels weird like they get pulled apart between being locked in the straps and the seat momentum backwards

1) Yes the lever measures resistance, most rowers row on 6-8 because that area simulates water the best afaik.
2) A "good" time for a novice would be in the low 7s - high 6s. A "great" time is below that. Use the time you want to calculate the split you want to keep.
3) Yes you want it to be as smooth as possible to make it as efficient as possible, (eg. Dont pause at the catch before the next stroke.) Also, you want to make sure that you use your arms only when you have extended your legs all the way and then bring the handle to just under your pecs/bra line. Lean back on the finish just a little as well, dont overdo it.
4) similar to 3, from what I understand from your question, you want to extend your legs but not lock them out, makes it more difficult to get up to the catch.

T. Rower

1. The lever changes the resistance, depending on how well the erg is maintained/ how new it is you'll have to check the actual resistance by going onto the "display drag factor" setting on the options menu. Pull a few strokes and fiddle with the lever til you get the number to around 130-ish for a beginner
2. A 2k of 9 minutes isn't great (but fine if you didn't push hard) most men who row for fun at uni will be getting sub-7 minutes (1:45 split per 500m). This also depends on how big you are , taller people=longer stroke=more work done per stroke=faster boat
3. The way you teach the stroke splits the stroke up into several phases, you should probably practice each phase indidvidually for a bit but the stroke should be smooth and dynamic. Watch some youtube vids of actual olympic rowers (a lot of crossfitters don't have a clue)
4. could be a lot of things, try mentally cueing youself to stand up off the footplate at the catch (when you are fully compressed) could be the ergos knackered.

feel free to ask anymore questions im bored and here all night

t.university rower

thank you as well

thanks, all these rowers coming out the woodwork haha
Do you guys have any tips for progression beyond just rowing more?

Join a rowing club if your interested in the sport. It will ruin your life and is shit but for some reason you never want to quit it. I guess pulling hard on a handle for hours on end appeals to my autism

Are you a rower for a club or university? If so getting on the water helps the best. If you just use the erg then nothing gets you better at erging like erging. You can do pull exercises that simulate the rowing stroke like deadlifts and cleans. When you do these do lots of reps of low weight becuse you will be pulling the chain ~200 times during a 2k. Thats my advice.

Dude, I hate the pain but the fun of being on a team of friends makes all the 3am practices and erg practices worth it, I could never quit.

why will it ruin your life/why is it shit?

From my experience as a university club rower, you have to get up at 3am for water practices and if you cant get on the water you have erg practices. Then you have land trainings in the afternoons. It doesn't ruin your life exactly but it is a time commitment. As long as you have people you enjoy being around doing it with you it makes it not so bad.

why's the training at 3am? Also, what's erg?

lol i had no idea you could do that with a concept 2, it it any use?
Early morning practices, I row in the UK so its cold as shit in the winter, Training indoors on the ergo can be pretty grim if you don't have a good motivator (race/ teammates)

Other than that its great, good camaraderie in a crew when the boats moving well feels amazing. Also most clubs have a pretty decent social side to them.

Erg is short for ergometer, the rowing machine. Also, we have 3am practices because we have to ride 30 minutes to the lake and then try to get some practice time in and then make the 30 minute ride back in time for 8am classes.

Are you talking about the image I posted? Lmao, no that is an image I found of a guy that doesn't know how to use the erg.

oh right it looks like he's making a ghetto skierg -pic related

Oh shit, never thought of it like that. I dont think it would be as effective though.

looking at that image made me wanna kill myself

How's the social scene on a club crew team? If you're /fit could you easily fuck the girls team?

nice1 m8