Bulking meme

>mfw you think lifts stalling is only due to insufficient calorie intake

Wew lads, wait till you've been lifting for more than a couple months

You don't even know what you are talking about. Wew. Plz be b8.
bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/

bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/

bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/

bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/

bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html/

If eating at a surplus doesn't increase mass, then eating at a deficit doesn't reduce mass, and losing weight isn't possible. And that isn't the case.

Bulking doesn't mean "eating at TDEE + 2000 calories", it just means eating above your TDEE to gain muscle. Which is necessary.

I agree, bulking and cutting natty is a meme. I need to go through fraud archives before it's too late because someone posted a study that essentially concluded weight gain from lower bf% results in less fat and more lean muscle than weight gain at higher bf% insinuating lean gains during a slow bulk up to a point (for natty lifters, at least) is the most efficient way to gain muscle mass since bulking and cutting too quickly just results in gaining too much fat then losing it again with less muscle resultant than had you just been disciplined, worked what you had, and slowly built on it.

I still think gomad is fucking retarded unless your auschwitz tier, even for skinny guys, and should only ever be used to gain a little body fat to a healthy level.

>people on Veeky Forums don't know how to eat, condition themselves, or add mass at a rate that betters their frames

I'm shocked.

The only people I've ever seen do it correctly are professional or amateur competing body builders and fighters. Guess what they have in common, and it isn't that they're all natty. Unless you're being coached and on a rigorous schedule you WILL fuck up a bulking and cutting cycle more often than not.

This is the worst thing I've ever seen you post lotus. Wtf. Have you ever even read this article? He literally states (in terms of bulking and cutting)

>Simply, I don’t think this is generally ideal for the natural bodybuilder or athlete to gain muscle mass.

And specifically mentions in all these transformations he lists steroids were involved.

He also mentions lean gaining is extremely slow and eating at TDEE for conditioning is viable aesthetically, but there's a healthy balance for ye average natty body builder that's eating at a surplus but not GFH and cut.

What are you trying to prove with this? It's literally what OP said

Sometimes if you finish an article you get the point...
>'A Happy Medium: Bulk a Little, Cut a Little'.

>lifts stalling is magic and totally not your fault at all.
fag, lifts stall due to drop in relative volume, you're not pushing yourself as hard as you can.

that's why its fixed by doing aux lifts.

That's not what he says. Towards the end he says something closer to the effect of

>Diet to the low end of your acceptable body fat, maintain, slowly gain weight to the high end of your acceptable body fat, maintain, then diet down again as needed.

It's almost like he's encouraging lean, slow, and controlled bulks and mini cuts for nattys with maintaining periods at TDEE to control body fat gain like I've been doing and saying for years.

Conventional bulking and cutting like how Veeky Forums parrots it is a meme in every sense of the word for natties and this entire article is literally saying that too.

Where am I wrong?

The problem is retards. Straight up.

Natty Cut and bulk means eat +250 for a month and then eat -250 for a goddamn month. Simple. That's what cut and bulk means. It is no meme. It works. Fucking retards eat +2000 surplus and then get fat and then starve themselves. That's not cutting and bulking. That's fucking lunacy.

When people say 'cut and bulk is a meme' what they mean is eating +2000 calorie surplus (of Krispy Kreme for carbs and McDonald's for protein) is stupid for Natties. Duh? No shit? Obviously?

>where am I wrong

Where u call 'convential cutting and bulking' (+250 surplus of chicken breast and oats) a meme. That is convential bulking. What Veeky Forums does is not bodybuilding it is getting fat. Don't call it convential cutting and bulking

So can we please start parroting GFH bulking is a meme and slow lean bulking over a long period of time with controlled body fat% and cuts is the way to go? Because I literally never see it brought up until a b8 post like this is made. It's always "lul I want muscular aesthetics like zyzz and Jeff Seid so I'm bulking to 20% body fat then dieting back down." On this god damn board and it's the reason I so rarely lurk outside of fraud. Maintain an aesthetic body fat % and bulk within that limit until you condition yourself enough to add more mass, for fucks sake it isn't rocket science.

+500 with cardio is slow and controlled.
You two are advocating the same thing.

Conventional bulking and cutting with overly large surpluses and steep deficits aren't beneficial.

You are agreeing with the article yet said it's the worst thing I've posted here ever...

OP denounced a +500kcal surplus which is advisable with normal cardio for a natural. You don't need clen, trn, hgh, etc to make gains with that surplus and you will not get 'fat'. You cannot get the same strength gains eating at TDEE as you can using a surplus of +500kcal. You will look fine without tren/clen doing a hypertrophy routine as a natural.

Novice lifters eat at a surplus and don't train hard enough to make the most of the +500kcal surplus and end up gaining much more fat than necessary. Lee priest ran caloric surpluses of over +1500kcal and made gains because of drugs.

The sour grapes bit is true though because most anons posting here don't take the time to find out what their bodyfat percentage is before bulking or cutting which makes them gain too high body fat from the get go or they just stall because they are cutting from too low a body fat to begin with.

Eating at TDEE is good for maintaining your current body, not for gaining strength. If you are skinny as fuck then you should eat at a +500kcal surplus still, not do GOMAD because that would put you into a unnecessarily large surplus. Your body can only gain so much muscle at once given your training age. Linear progression is very applicable, not just to weights, but to how much you can gain without taking steriods.

>can we please start parroting

You're the one with the roid physique and trip, start parroting. Who's gonna listen to user?

The larger issue is that people want to overeat and they want to eat mcdonalds. So they convince themselves that

1. It is OK to bulk at 15%

2. It is OK to Bulk on Krispy Kreme

3. It is OK to eat +1000

So they fucking convince themselves this is a real, proper, course of action. They convince themselves this is good. Deep down, they know it's retarded, but they want to rationalize their lack of willpower and make excuses for why they can do this crap.

Even with all the evidence and common sense suggesting that it's a bad idea to meme bulk, they do it anyways.

They wish to rationalize their stupidity.

You think you spamming the truth and spamming those links lotus posted is gonna what, instill willpower into them?

They will convince themselves you are wrong

I said it's the worst thing you posted because it contradicts why you posted it completely. It's a good article and says a lot of the same things I have for ages.

>The sour grapes bit is true though because most anons posting here don't take the time to find out what their bodyfat percentage is before bulking or cutting which makes them gain too high body fat from the get go or they just stall because they are cutting from too low a body fat to begin with.

Exactly. The issue isn't the caloric intake, it's from where they start a bulk to where they go without eating at TDEE or conditioning themselves and there's a huge misunderstanding on this board as a whole because they think what works for Lee Priest, getting fat as fuck and cutting will work for them without copious amounts of roids and training.

+250/+500 doesn't matter as much as long as you're paying attention to bf%, it just limits how long you should bulk for and, potentially, how linerally you can pack on muscle.

Example being eat at +250 surpluss 10% bf with a limit of 15% and you'll be able to leanbulk like that with a strict regiment for months until you hit 15% bf. Eat at a +500 caloric intake and it might be half that time or less before you have to eat at TDEE again and condition or cut.

Understand where I'm coming from?

Now we're getting somewhere.

Can we all agree OP is a faggot and a retard for suggesting gomad to literally anyone?

>You can get the SAME strength gains without eating 500 extra calories every day.

Stopped reading right here. Sub-2plate bench detected.

>gomad

So for me, what I see wrong with gomad is that it's like, impossible to hit proper macros when you're doing Gomad.

There's the fact that 99.9999% of people that do gonads don't even know what a macro is but that's irrelevant

>You can get the SAME strength gains without eating 500 extra calories every day.

HOW SWAY. HOW?

I do my part senpai. It's hard tho, fighting a meme.

#leanbulk2017

Yeah that's retarded because even fat mass gains will contribute to strength gains. Look at power lifters.

If we ignore gomad and pretend like it doesn't exist do you think it'll go away? Maybe we can do the same thing with SS?

I posted it for the authors opinion on two common philosophies on gaining and losing weight. Background information is common when writing an article to inform the un-informed. You must have thought I was advocating the background information, not the authors opinion which is the final segment.

I think you have said a lot of things that the article has said for ages. The author knows what he is talking about. You agree with the author, as do I.

You were never misunderstood. I was misunderstood, hence why I had to explain why I posted the link. At no point did I disagree with you on principles..,

OP is a faggot, but this thread should be put to good use to steer anons in the right direction regarding optimal muscle gain.

I promise you they will not do the cardio. I fucking PROMISE you. There are posters who are convinced
1. You must eat at 500 kcal surp to TDEE
2. Cardio kills gains

Yo sup familia. How's christmass?

Lurking in this thread reading up.

So my cut is nearing an end. Especially with the modified PMSF ( I was too much of a pansy bitch to do the real thing, wanted to get like 1100 calories and 200g of protein in)

Questions:

1. After a cut of 4 months/40 lbs, at large deficiet, how long do I need to eat at TDEE before I can bulk?

I assume much longer matienece period is required than some guy that just cut for a month at -500 like a normal person right?

2. Re-calculating TDEE. My plan to find my exact TDEE is to just record my weight daily when I'm eating my guestimated matienence and then do the math (510 calorie deficiet=4lbs a month right?)

Example, if I eat at 3000 at the end of my cut for a month and lose 2 lbs over the month, then it's safe to assume that my TDEE is 3255, and the following month I should eat at 3500.

Correct?

I know I said I wasn't lifting for girls

I guess annaorexic gf leaving is making me more motivated than ever because there's a little part of my brain that believes if I had a better body she would've overlooked the age difference.

That's their problem, and doesn't change the science behind true theory.
>tfw wifey gets you pic related celebrating Christs birth

This cut is gonna be epic and errbody gonna scream roids because I did it ohh so right

Why dont you think novices can make the same strength gains without eating at significant surplus?

Noob gains are linear regardless of what they eat unless they're starving.

Bulk till you start getting embarassed about being shirtless(ie 15-16%).

Cut till you're fully confident about your leanness without killing yourself (8-10%).

It's really that fucking simple, the problem is you have permafatters who START bulking at 17% bodyfay

>"i dont wana be a skeleton, so ill bulk first and turn obese, then "try" to cut down

And another hamplanet was born

>bb-bb-but muh "strength" gains!

Lotus, I have a question. I was under the impression that regardless of cardio, eating at +500 would result in the same rate of fat gained.

You say that +500 with cardio is slow and controlled, and imply that -500 is not slow or controlled.

But how is there a difference in rate of fat that is gained?

I.E.: 3000 calorie TDEE, guy eats 3500, this is not slow and controlled

Or

Guy's TDEE is 3500 (lots of cardio) and he eats 4000= slow and controlled

I have been doing cardio simply because you and NAtT advise it and you guys have great physiques and I am a firm believer in 'take advice from those that succeed' and also, for cardiovascular health, etc

But I fail to see how it effects the rate of fat gained on bulk. Could you link me relevant material please, or explain to me? Thank you

Fair nuff man. Thanks for the link, it was a good read and I'll probably save it for later.

Bomb, going to a Hawaiian local potluck. Gonna try and pick up some wahine. Otherwise I'm gonna get shit faced and dream of the gym.

>how long to maintain

Try what the author in the article lotus posted said, 2 weeks of lifting and maintaining. If you're not satisfied with your conditioning do two more and then consider slow bulking and cutting to add mass appropriately until you reach a desired muscular level.

Yup. Constantly recalculate TDEE because it changes with every pound you gain or lose.

>the same strength gains without a surplus

Stopped reading right there
If you want proper recovery you're gonna have to eat over TDEE and you'd know that if you'd lifted
Can you get stronger eating at TDEE? yes
Is it more efficient than clean bulking and cutting? Is it fuck

Eating at a 300kcal suprpluss will get you very little fat. And losing fat is WAY easier than gaining muscle. The difference between eating at a surpluss or at maintance when building muscle and strength is huge. Its night and day

Studying dietician bro checking in.

You will not gain a gram of muscle eating at your tdee.

Are you honestly retarded?

Beginners can though, but Its slower. And any trained individual wont.

Bulking dosent have to equal dreamer bulks

Fucking americans i swear

>dream of the gym

Mine is closed on Christmas and I feel legit itchy and tense like when I quit smoking.

>until you reach a desired muscular level

Ahahahahhahahaha
Ahahahahahahahah

I thought you advised people against bulking for 10 years straight

But uh on a serious note I'm planning on doing the same shit you do, small cut and bulk cycles, never get past 12%.

I think that's good for dyels, people see lotus looking good with like 13-14% bf and they just think they'll look like that at 14%... no. When your abdominal and obliques and everything is so developed you look a lot leaner with that high bodyfat IMO.

Anyways yeah I'm sitting at 15% now and I never wanna be this fat again my life shit

Enjoy your stay in HI man

Because eating at a huge surplus not giving a shit about body fat will always give you better strength gains than any alternative.

This is not about being a fat fuck heavyweight class power lifter, this is about aesthetics and muscle that actually shows on your body.

I think this is what you're asking

+500 with excess cardio is effectively +250 with none, but more perks. You basically just burn off the excess energy that you ate otherwise stored in your body immediately through cardio so it lets you bulk for a longer time at a slower rate with the same amount of lean muscle gain, but the benefit of you get to run and do cardio too, which is good for you and your legs.

That's why it's more controlled.

Good question. Cardio increases your work capacity which allows you to pump more blood to your muscles (stronger heart), in turn provides higher intensity burning more calories than just the -500kcal intended which would put you at a slightly lower surplus than just eating +500 while burning fat doing steady state cardio.

Wrong
Fat is an energy store
Train hard and eat at tdee and your body will use the energy from fat reserves to rebuild muscles
The issue is it's gonna be slower than eating at a surplus

>I thought you advised people against bulking for 10 years straight

I do. It's important to maintain, have mini cuts, and work out stronk while you do that. I maintain WAY longer than most people though, and way longer than I had to because of my previous engagements over the last few years to my boxing and wrestling weight classes.

I'm gonna be slowly lean bulking now and maintaining the same bf% within a few percentage points over the next near future. I can add another 30 lbs of lbm to my frame according to my ffmi and I wanna see how far I can push that at sub 10%.

You thought I have a roid like physique now, just you fucking wait.

That's exactly my point ffs.

My new years resolution is cardio
Issue is running distance fucks my shins up and i've lost my squash partner

Gonna have to grin and bare sprinting

Sorry bro i probs misread it due to being trashed
Have a good christmas?

Got it guys, thanks. Wasn't gonna stop doing it regardless.

There's a lot of stuff I do because 'they said so' like eating clean that I don't really understand the science behind why to do it, I just do it, so it's nice to hear explanations.

I assume that the logic behind eating clean is going to be something involving micro nutrients or blood sugar levels or something? Not as curious so don't feel compelled to field that one if you're busy

It's dem traps I always more them hard. Is it genetics because I didn't see an excessive amount of work for them in your routine and they're bigger than MasT's before gear Lol

Anyways I do a lot of shit for lats and traps on my routine in the hopes of getting a vtaper and big roidarooo traps some days so hopefully it pays off come to time to bulk

I'm off, take care bby xoxo

You need proteins to make amino acids to make protein to make muscles

But the real question is will you get significant strength gains bulking compared to eating at TDEE?

How accurate do you think your bf% guess is or do you get it pro measured? I'm almost at 25 as of right now and I still think I can put on more muscle

Np non American brah merry Christmas

Shoulder barbell shrugs, OHP, and clean and press. If you do heavy weight on all of them always pushing it's more than enough for your traps to have DOMs erry shoulder day.

I was dexa scanned at peak wrestling season at ~8% bf 6 years ago and I am much, much leaner and muscular overall than I was then.

I'm going to get a bf% test done by a physician along with a general checkup before I leave the states in two months, you guys will be the first to know the results.

Stationary bicycle or something else low impact will do the trick if you have issues with shins (probably splints).

Eating 'clean' (unprocessed) has everything to do with micro-nutrients and optimizing insulin spikes to your benefit so you are on the right path, do more research!

>Post body OP.

This

From my experience, eating when you're hungry is just fine. If I lift heavier one day I eat more, just because my body needs a higher caloric intake to rebuild itself. Also, if you stick to foods high in proteins and carbs but low in fats like chicken or pasta along with veggies and some healthy fats like nuts you can eat a lot

Tbh i'd aim for fats over carbs
Fats are more thermogenic and have various effects (like test increase) carbs are just empty calories

> ate at maintenance for 2-3 months
> lifted 4-5 days a week
> compound lifts every day, getting stronger
> +0.4kg muscle -1kg fat over 2-3 months
> bodyfat change of 0.5% or so
> ate 130-160g protein daily
> all my lifts are intermediate

If you don't bulk and cut, you're not going to make progress. Progress is bound by the theoretical science of nutrition.

sounds like you have shit training, genetics and diet mate.

>130-160g protein a day

yeah, ok pajeet, eat more protein and lay off the biryani rice and naan.

>GOMAD
enjoy prostate cancer

How is 160g of protein considered low you fucking retard

lotus bringing the logic and experience

have some mike israetel on "recomping" and the importance of dedicated bulks and cuts

So you mean to get better at weighted pull ups, i should drop the idea of doing 4x4 sets and try to do 5x8 sets for some weeks? really nigga?

>literally who
t. broscience backed up by ZERO proof

Oh right, you're a pot bellied pajeet with 10 inch arms, probably 5'6 160lbs 28% bodyfat.

yeah 160g is sufficient for you

educate yourself sissy boy

Cool got any more facebook diets?

>Novice lifters eat at a surplus and don't train hard enough to make the most of the +500kcal surplus and end up gaining much more fat than necessary. Lee priest ran caloric surpluses of over +1500kcal and made gains because of drugs
So much this. 3x5/5x5 is not sufficient to make use of the extra calories. Hypertrophy routines on the other hand are.

...

youtube.com/watch?v=GIX-RyorgkQ

T. Dyel

How come I weigh the same before and after pooing? Is poo weightless before it leaves the body? Maybe our insides are another dimension.

Recovering anorexic here
I ate at a 1500 surplus to get from 100lbs at 6'1 to 130lbs, I haven't gained an inch of fat but am much stronger. I see NO reason to not do the same when I enter my cut, I am going to eat 1500 calories below maintenance and I will look fucking shredded in 3 months, I am sure. I am probably 20% bf? I will be less than 8% bf in 3 months.

And you will lose a fuckton of muscle at a deficit that severe.

what the fuck? lmao

Visual comparisons work well once you're not obese. If you're a former fatty like me then you'll have excess skin that makes skinfold calipers useless, although they're pretty good for most people who don't have hanging skin.

You can also take measurements and use a formula. The most important thing is to be consistent. When I was really heavy I just took tape measurements and plugged them in the navy formula.

cutting and bulking is pretty much a meme, maybe it's okay if you stay below 16-18%bf at all times.

Stay as lean as possible for optimal testosterone levels and aesthetics at all times.

Your body won't go into crisis mode and stop building muscle unless you fall below like 7%bf or some shit like that. It's not gonna happen

Do you know how I know you know nothing? You think clen does anything lmfao

I use pic related to create a lot of varity using rice potatos chicken and other meats

starting at 15 is perfectly fine. why waste time cutting lower when you know you're going to bulk? if you do a slow bulk (+200-500) and actually put in the work the weight gain will not be as fast as you think. if you eat clean most of that will be muscle. once you get to around 20 you just cut for a month or so and you're back at 15.

it's not like you go from 15 to 25 overnight.

Because when you are lean (around 10%) you bulk more efficiently and don't look like a blubber butt at the end of it.

can you give me an example of how i actually use this? like lets say i want to do the cajun one... do I just add chicken to that mixture and fry it all up together or what?

so what happens when your life stalls?

Mmm... It depends. If you're doing small chicken strips I'd set the pan with oil and put all the seasoning ingredients in first and flash them real quick in the pan on medium heat with the oil in it until they juuuust get enough heat to start breaking down, like 2-3 minutes, then add the chicken strips until they're cooked fully on either side, and enjoy.

If you're doing a full breast it's a bit different, preheat the oven to ~350, fry the prep first like the first situation, same 2-3 mins on medium, then stick the breast in the mixture and sear it medium high heat. Add more oil if needed. Continue until slightly blackened on the sides. Now, after that's done, stick the breast on a tray wrapped in tin foil, pour all the veggies and oil over it, add salt, and stick in the oven for ~10-15 minutes. It should cook the rest of the chicken, leave it nice and moist, and not over cook the outside. The veggies will be firm, maybe a bit crispy, but if you moved them around enough while frying medium high you should be Gucci.

Why should i bulk over 15% bf

why didn't you guys said this when i was 10% bf. I memed myself into oblivion by bulking at 500kcal surplus for 6 months. Now i'm more fat than muscle.

Same.

Month ago I did OHP at 140lbs for 5*4

Tonight, I do it for 20 sets of 5.