What's the argument against a PPL split?

>Easy to build up fatigue and not be able to catch up if you don't gauge your MRV perfectly.
>Most people with jobs don't have the time or will.
>Puts a lot of stress on joints and tendons, fine if you've been lifting for a while, but if you're a beginner you're going to snap shit up.
>You still only hit full body twice a week, no step up from PHUL/PHAT and for most people you can fit all the volume you need in 4 sessions.

You usually do deadlifts on pull day then squats the next day. Or the other way around.

Biceps can be covered by hitting a set of chin-ups after pull-ups.

Triceps are more than covered with Bench and OHP.

Forearms are covered by deadlifts and pull-ups.

Shoulders are covered by all the exerscises.

Just do pull push legs rest

Why should I do PPL over SS/SL?

If you value aesthetics over strength

>no nipples. 308.

shouldn't people start with an SS/SL program anyways? It's tough to get aesthetic with out solid strength & muscle. Also with SL at least you can add in assistive exercises to help with things like biceps, core, tris, so you don't accidentally hit minotaur mode

Because if you have to ask you are a noob and SL/SS is a beginner routine designed for you, PPL can be but is nowhere near ideal for that purpose.

and by minotaur I mean centaur, fuck

ass missing

...

my ass is 10000x better

...

How long do most people stay on SS before switching?

That picture is full of fuck, who gains 24kg of muscle in 5 months? Who the fuck bulks on a 3000kcal surplus as a noob? Picture on the left is 20%bf at least, right is 40%.

forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=149807833
Is coolcicada's ppl a sufficient routine for those who don't mind going to the gym 5-6 days a week?

>doing any of your big 3 on the same day
I can't see how people have the energy for this. For accessories I don't mind, but if I can't go ham on any of my big 3 because I was too busy blowing off my major energy on another big 3, then I'm going to end up getting upset because I can't move the weight I'm supposed to.

Where does core, arms, shoulders, traps, etc. come into play? Don't say squats and DL are for your core either, unless you want to look inherently DYEL.

>Everyone does 5 reps or lower.
>OHP tires you out significantly for deadlifts.
What the fuck are you on about?
>Bench tires you out for bench.
The only way I can see bench tiring you out for squats is if you train fasted or have shit cardiovascular fitness.

I'm a fatass doing PPL on a cut, is it actually "bad" or does it really matter? Like in the long run am I doing myself any real harm if my macros and calories are all in order?

it's advisable to have a lot more volume than that for biceps and triceps tbqh

>unessisary
>that suggest routine with 1 exercise per muscle

whatever the fuck you do lads, don't take advice from this literal retard

What do you mean? Don't listen to the memers, PPL is great. I've been making great gains in my big three + OHP on PPL. It's a solid routine.

As for the cut, it's not bad, especially if you're fat.

That's what I thought. I see people in here saying you'll end up in snap city if you do PPL or why bother going to the gym 6 days a week, but I've been losing weight steadily while still going up on all my lifts.

I can never tell who is memeing and who is being genuine.

you can trust me

PPL is not an ideal beginner routine for a number of reasons, but it's better than nothing.

Not on steroids so I can't do a good ppl routine.
I'm not a noobie that wants to turn into a T-Rex so full body is out of the question.
That's when you realize upper/lower is the one to rule them all.

those are some crazy fucking numbers for 4 months if they are even true. most people lift for years and still don't hit those squat and diddy numbers.

should have stopped earlier before getting fat but he'll look decent once he cuts down.

He still has a low relative strength which is what is most important.

At OPie - look, when starting out it is very hard to overtrain. The biggest problem with a 6-day split is actually going to the gym once you have a job/social life.

PPL is an intermediate routine.
meaning you need some more volume so that you can promote growth after your noob gains.
your thing has even less volume than a fullbody+accessories

If you want to be a disgusting strong fatass do SS, if you want Aesthetics do PPL and but I don't have a day for Legs I'm just doing Squats on Push Day.

For one, powerlifters usually end up doing the big three all on one day.

Aside from that, my two day routine is set up to prevent fatigue issues.

Verticals pulls do not affect virticle pushes. Pressing gives your grip a break between verticals pulls and deadlifts. Virticle pulls use more lats while deadlifts use more traps and mid back stabilizers (lats are involved, but not to a great extent).

On the second day, I put squat bench in between squat and rows to give the lower back a break. Horizontal presses and pulls don't interfere with each other.

Finally, with it only being a two day a week routine, you have plenty of recovery even if your diet and sleep are terrible.

meme

I would argue that increasing frequency will hurt recovery. It would be better to just have a volume day.

I worked 60-80 hours a week from March until October this year and I trained 6 times a week. Granted i get better sleep and recovery now I am down to 39 hours and having holidays over xmas but still. Man up. You can train frequently and intensely with a proper job for sure. You just may have to sacrifice other things like vidya etc

>OHP
>big 3
Opinion instantly disregarded.

well you should be intermediate when starting a PPL so increased frequency should not be an issue.
I personally wouldnt do it because I dont have the time to go 6 or 5 times a week to the gym.
I especially wouldnt recommend it for a beginner
I'm starting phul next week

>you need to burn out the muscles!
>multiple exercises per day!

It's frequency that helps you get bigger and stronger as a natty, not doing a fuck ton of volume one-two days per week.

t. 4 day full body master race

I find that 4 days is enough. You don't need 6 to get in 2x a week of all main lifts.

Pull push legs numnutz

You dont "need" to lift 6 days a week on PPL. You can vary between 3-6 days/week.

No.

>he'll look decent once he cuts down.

no.

he gained 120lbs in 4 months

he will be the king of extra skin

PHUL was really good but I ended up always wanting to do more than I could on the upper Hypertrophy day, so I switched to ULxPPLx. Keep it in mind as an option.

Trying to do a high volume of upper body work all on one day is taxing as fuck.

Newfag, go do some holiday asignments

The low volume (per session)
high frequency doesn't always work as you think it will.

I've done it and lost gains even when bulking. (Lost muscle and gained fat).

PPL always for a perfect balance of volume and frequency that you just don't get on a bro-split or full-body.

ayy lmao

i have never done isolated arm exercises and my arms look like this

i only use barbell and chinup bar

What about Push+Legs/Pull+LegsxPush+Legs/Pull+Legsx?
A:
Bench
Deadlift
Bench Acessories
B:
Row
Squat
Row Acessories
C:
Bench
Deadlift
Squat Acessories
D:
Row
Squat
Deadlift Acessories

fatty

>i have never done isolated arm exercises and my arms look like this
arms look like shit; what point are you trying to prove?

pull push legs pull
so squat then dl back to back

some curls and skullcrushers won't hurt you

PPL is the official neckbeard beginner routine. Probably right up your alley OP.
>I have no hobbies or interests besides video games and Veeky Forums so 6 days a week at the gym is the strict minimum
>I'm really insecure in all aspects of life so I only care about hypertrophy but I think I'm too smart for a body part split
>it gives me room to incorporate the billions of assistance exercises I religiously watch on fitness youtube channels several hours a day. T-bar rows anyone?
>I obsess over needlessly complex workouts but completely neglect my diet so I think this kind of volume will help with my shitty progress when I should just suck it up and eat at a fucking surplus

why do people hate PPL so much here?

The point of ppl is to organize your lifts in such a way that your can put in as much work as possible without interfering with your other muscle groups. Not so you can do as little work as possible. It's for people that like lifting and want to excel. Not lazy faggots.

You look like shit and your lifts are shit.

that's pretty funny because i thought SS was the neckbeard routine. i remember years ago, probably long before you ever discovered Veeky Forums, PPL was the go to. and years before that PPL was shit on.

go ahead and take your rant to any physical hobby community. tell all those athletes and hobbyists they are losers. you'd get banned pretty quick for shitposting. but it's nice being user isn't. gives you lots of courage to talk shit.

When you say low volume, how low do you mean? Obviously there's a point where it'll be too low, but 20-25 challenging sets (RPE 7.5+) for one muscle group spaced out over 3-4 lifting sessions in a week is going to be more beneficial than that same number in 1-2 lifting sessions.

>6 days a week
>all about accessories and hypertrophy
>complex

Top kek

One of the most old school, basic training routines was called these things.

This can serve as a daily reminder that most people on here are planet fitness tier lifters.

picking your arsehole isnt working, faggot, even if it is 60 hours of it

Literally every answer in this thread is shit. How much of a fucking pansy do you have to be do not get your ass to the gym 6 times a week.

The problem with PPL is it's extremely taxing on the rear delts and lower traps. These 2 upper back muscles are used in almost every compound movement, if you are doing them correctly. You can end up badly overtraining these muscles doing them 6 days a week.

Deadlift and cleans are also hard to schedule, is it a pull or legs?

I do a PPL, and it's certainly done me well. But if lower traps or rear delts are a weakness then it's probably not for you. I'm thinking of switching to a push/pull routine where push is push+squats and pull is pull+deads/cleans to get some more rest for my upper back.

finally

a day for legs is simply not necessary, better to run Upper/Lower if you ask me.

MELTING NIPPLES GOLEM GET YE GONE

It is, hon.

You often cannot handle the sick gains, also you get severely spoiled by the mires.

I know this is not real, but a 6pl8 Dl after 4 months of training would be pretty impressive actually.

Just described SS

Bench 135? Summarizes the whole fucking problem.

Overwork lowerbody (which no one cares about) and do nothing to upperbody. Result is the worst looking body possible

DO you wanna know how I know you look like shit and have shitty numbers?

why would you want to lift six days a week if you're working 60-80 hours a week? don't you want any time to spend with others or to invest in your hobbies? there's more to life than lifting things in spite of what those motivational pictures say

>tfw my dad got me on PPL

>mfw an army veteran who used to bodybuild for fun is a neckbeard

Find ONE aspect of what I said, without twisting my words, that applies to SS.

Just because it's the ideal program for neckbeards doesn't mean only sheltered white Veeky Forums nerds can do it.
Obviously it's also fit for the casual lifter crowd who enjoy doing as many obscure exercises as possible and "bodybuilding for fun"

>T bar row
>assistance
well memed

I like liftin 6 days a week. If I miss a gym day I start getting all fucked up in my head, keeps me stable.

But I'm considering doing what
said and just turning the other days into cardio days

What if you're an intermediate?

yeah no shit your arms look like garbage. No one at my gym who does PPL has good arms.

You can add more volume to your arms and be completely fine. It's not that serious

Whats a good routine for 4 days a week? Push/Pull with legs worked in or Upper/Lower. Focused mostly on upper body aesthetics desu

So you DO PPL you are only hitting major muscle groups twice a week.

You do full body 3-4 times a week you get 1-2 more days of growth.

The majority of people that promote 6 times a week are on the juice. Studies have shown you put people who dont even LIFT on juice they gain muscle. The more gear you are on the less it matters what you do.

Will PPL work? Yes. Is it optimal? No.

Personally more a fan of Upper/Lower because you can do both Deadlifts and Squats. With Push/Pull it is gonna be hard to do that because you cant really fit them in well together. Deadlifts are not a must but I like them so I would do Upper/Lower.

On the other hand Push/Pull has relatively speaking more volume for the upper body so for you personal goal it might be more suited. So I would say for you it would probably be best to do Push/Pull depending on how strong you are you could do something like

Mo: Heavy Push
Tu: Light Pull
We: -
Th: Light Push
Fri Heavy Pull
Sa: -
Su: -

If you do it like this you can even include both Deadlifts (Heavy Pull) and Squats (Heavy Push) and just do something different on the lighter days like Legpress or Stifflegged Deadlifts with higher repranges.