Hannibal was in Italy for 15 years running around ransacking because the romans couldnt stop him. Yet hannibal didnt have the resources to take rome. The carthaginian senate did not fully support Hannibal.
He is in my top 3 of ancient warfares commanders and was basically betrayed by his own people by their lack of support. I guess that’s what happens when you are from a mercantile civilization whose leading families all had contradicting ideas for where to spend the money of state.
It is my belief Hannibal would’ve conquered Rome, leading to a whole different world we live in today if he had been funded properly. Which may have resulted in him being known as the GOAT.
>The carthaginian senate did not fully support Hannibal. How would the Carthaginian senate even "fully support" Hannibal? 3 of the 4 attempts to reinforce him got intercepted and wiped out en route. How do their opening of other fronts and forcing the Romans to divert resources elsewhere not support him?
>He is in my top 3 of ancient warfares commanders and was basically betrayed by his own people by their lack of support. I guess that’s what happens when you are from a mercantile civilization whose leading families all had contradicting ideas for where to spend the money of state. [citation badly needed]
It is my belief you have not actually studied the Second Punic War.
Jordan Thompson
Not OP, but to me it sounds like Hannibal's best hope was to immediately go for the throat after Cannae and to begin laying siege to Rome, and then recall Hasdrubal from Iberia to reinforce the siege with no Roman army to stop him en route. Spain could be dealt with later, but when Hannibal did decide he needed a decisive action, it was too little, too late.
James Barnes
>Stab in the back myth
Hunter Gutierrez
He had no chance of making that work at all. Immediately after Canne, he tried to take the far less well defended town of Nola, and failed.
And historically, it took close to a year when he did try to get Hasdrubal and forces over to Italy; it probably wouldn't be any better in 216 than in 208. And there would be Roman armies around. Dertosa was in 215, and that army had been there for a couple of years.
Asher Howard
> then recall Hasdrubal from Iberia to reinforce the siege with no Roman army to stop him en route
Yeah, he should just call Hasdrubal on his cell and tell him to come to Rome.
Cannae is in South Italy, it's 2000 km from Cannae to Barcelona. A messenger would have to ride through hostile territory to and the alps to get there. If he's unlucky, winter hits before he can even cross the Alps, and the earliest he can get to Barcelona is summer of next year. Remember Cannae happened in August.
Then Hasdrubal has to get the message, march his army in, and by the time he gets to Italy, it's autumn of the next year, and he needs to set up winter camp.
Keep in mind that while Hannibal won Cannae, he still took considerable losses. He also had no siege equipment to besiege Rome with, and opens himself to being attacked in the rear by Rome's allies while besieging.
Elijah Cooper
Him laying siege to Rome may have had the desired effect of turning some Roman allies which would have definitely smoothed things along. But who knows, you're probably right. Is there anything Hannibal could have done to win the war?
Jaxson Thomas
Veeky Forums is for people who have a general interest in history. What type of sad loser has actually spent money and years of their life formally studying history simply to end up posting here?
Carson Reed
Why was a naval invasion never considered?Why didn't the Carthaginians use that navy everyone keeps memeing about. It would've made things go alot faster, or am I wrong?
Jace Ward
because their navy got massacred by the Remans in the 1st pubic wars
Adrian Nelson
I mean, if it had worked, it probably would have, but a march on Rome that would last for a few weeks tops probably wouldn't have much effect. It might even bolster Roman (and their allies) confidence. Remember, Hannibal has no actual supply line, his army is eating whatever they can buy or steal from the locals. He can't stay still all that long.
>Is there anything Hannibal could have done to win the war? In my opinion, no. Rome was too big and tough and possessed a sort of proto-nationalism which allowed them to absorb losses that other contempory states simply couldn't.
Aaron Clark
like said, the Carthaginian Navy was destroyed in the First Punic War, the treaty that ended the war also forbid Carthage from building a new navy (or army for that matter).
Hannibal's army was essentially his own private army, funded and raised in Iberia rather than Africa.
Evan Hill
As was Scipio’s army, which was out conquering Spain while Hannibal fucked around for 15 years
Julian Evans
Where did he get the olyphants? They're not native to Iberia.
Nicholas Williams
He bought them?
Hannibal was fucking loaded because the Carthaginian colonies in Iberia were started and owned by the Barcid family.
Scipio used his personal money to expand his army, but the Senate did give him command of an existing army.
If the winds of fate had been slightly different, Hannibal may very well have walked away victorious. Because a message runner took a wrong turn and ended up in Roman hands, they knew exactly where and when Hasdrubal's reinforcements would arrive. The Romans won the ensuring battle hands down because it was fresh Romans against exhausted Carthaginians.
Had he managed to combine his army with Hannibal's, they would have both outnumbered the combined consular army AND have the siege equipment necessary to take on Rome directly.
>The consul Claudius Nero, who made the unequalled march which deceived Hannibal and deceived Hasdrubal, thereby accomplishing an achievement almost unrivaled in military annals. The first intelligence of his return, to Hannibal, was the sight of Hasdrubal's head thrown into his camp. When Hannibal saw this, he exclaimed, with a sigh, that 'Rome would now be the mistress of the world.' To this victory of Claudius Nero's it might be owing that his imperial namesake reigned at all. But the infamy of the one has eclipsed the glory of the other. When the name of Claudius Nero is heard, who thinks of the consul? But such are human things. ~Lord Byron, speaking about the battle
Benjamin Hughes
And if the Romans do something as breathtakingly rational as recalling some of the forces they had in Sardinia, Sicily, or Hispania, which they could easily do with their mastery of the seas? And how is Hannibal supposed to lay siege to Rome with no regular supply lines. It will still take weeks at best to reduce the walls of Rome (What mention is there, by the way, of Hasdrubal's force containing siege engines?) and a combined larger army will take more to feed from a very unreliable local food source than it is to feed smaller scattered bands foraging.
Luis Johnson
Why is your image of Titus Manlius when your post is about Metarus, which happened 200 years after Titus Manlius died.
David Brown
I don't know if I'd call happening to stumble across vital military intelligence and marching at night greater than crossing the alps with fucking elephants but it is beautifully poetic.
Christopher Butler
The senate gave him command of disgraced and defeated remnants of legions defeated by Hannibal, it was entirely his own gravatas that turned his ragtag group of disgraced legionaries into the conquering heroes of Spain and Zama. He’s arguably just as capable as Hannibal and improved on his tactics and strategy.
Joshua Young
The two sources I've read on the war state that them being disgraced made them more capable as they were full on "Death or Glory" to reclaim their dignity.
Henry Butler
what I dont understand is why youd have to take siege equipment to hannibal. Like, was it really impossible to build whatever was needed with wood from italy
Aaron Harris
>Counting the attempt that failed because of a light wind and no rowers. >Counting the 3,000 cavalry all full reinforcements >Counting them lobbing his brothers over 4 attempts in 15 years is pretty shitty.
Matthew Gutierrez
Impossible impossible? No, as long as he had engineers. But constructing engines takes time and staying still in one area of construction, and neither of those are things Hannibal can easily do, especially in the vicinity of Rome.
And what metric are you using to measure this? And if you're not counting that small detachment of cavalry, then ZERO percent of the reinforcements dispatched to Hannibal actually made it over. How do you come to the conclusion that his city didn't support him, and not "Holy shit, we can't actually get reinforcements to him, so it's a waste of time and literally hundreds of thousands of troops to try".
