Is starting strength really a meme? What the fuck should I be doing instead?

Is starting strength really a meme? What the fuck should I be doing instead?

>inb4 read the sticky

The fucking sticky told me to do SS

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=QhVC_AnZYYM
jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/03/07/considerations-for-beginners/
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Its not a meme. Do stronglifts 5x5 if you want something else. Start out super light and add 2.5kg to your lifts every session untill you cant add anymore.
Watch the vids for lift form. Reading SS was great but theres alot of information that can be conveyed better through videos rather than pages and pages of reading.

You could go with some kind of push/pull program, but they're better suited to when you've managed to gain some actual strength from the big lifts.
Just do Stronglifts or something and simply add some additional related exercises to each workout for more aesthetics.

yes it is a meme.
it has way too much leg work and doesn't train some muscles enough, resulting in an unbalanced body, which made people get the idea that 1/2/3/4 is an ideal when in fact your lower body would be way stronger than your upper body if you do that.
it promotes the wrong idea that compounds alone are enough to get a balanced physique. it's not intense enough.
it has godawful 20 minute instructional videos that are completely useless. there are multiple people in their early 20s making much better videos than an instructor who has been doing this for decades.
it claims that you have to read the book or else you're not doing it right, bullcrap - I'm stronger than most of Veeky Forums and all I've used is resources freely available on google and some youtube videos.

what is important though is getting the technique correctly, because some of these compounds are deceptively difficult. deadlifts and rows especially are something you can do wrong for a long time before realizing it, which would lead to hitting a wall and get frustrated (or if you're especially bad, could lead to injury).

Best youtuber for form videos?

Alan Thrall
>inb4 fedora
He actually has tons of great information for beginner lifters

alan

I do a 4 day split, if you're just starting SS isn't ass, but as soon as you pass the 4 month mark you should be looking at other shit. SS is not the end all-be all routine for everyone. It's to get you a starting base, even then I added accessories to it to burnout at the end of my sessions. There are plenty of routines out there you can do instead.
2 day split (AXBXAXX, BXAXBXX)
3 day split (PPLX or PPLPPLX)
4 day split (ABCDX)

Seriously, there are so many options. Look up different routines by reputable coaches online, simply google it and come back with it if you have additional questions. Just because Veeky Forums memes a few routines doesn't mean there aren't a hundred damn good ones floating around that may be more suited to your body, schedule, lifestyle, etc.

Your lower body is SUPPOSED to be stronger than your upper body you retard.

Doing SL here.

I am adding accessory work because I feel my arms are still chicken arms compared to my legs.

It suggests you move to 3x5 after a certain period, no? Can you explain to me when I should drop to 3x5 on a lift, please?

I did SS and it worked perfectly. You learn how to lift, you build a strength base, and when your noob gains run out and you stop making progress, you can decide where you want to go from there: a split, powerlifting, sport-specific, whatever you want.

Greyskull gets no love on fit

it's not a meme, but if aesthetics are your goal you could probably start with an upper/lower with more volume and not such an insane myopic focus on barbell squats

Rippetoe did a series of instructional videos with the douchbag from Art of Manliness.

youtube.com/watch?v=QhVC_AnZYYM

Art of Manliness is pathetic nonsense but these videos are actually really good and Rip is on top form

I hate Ripp's videos. He overcomplicates shit and many top squatters don't believe all the hip drive nonsense

>is ss a meme
no

>is Veeky Forums retarded about it
yes

when u hit 1/2/3/4

why would u want to go to a gym to do a 8 minute workout lmao

I train at home

yeh but 90% of people go to the gym so why in the world would people want to do a 5-10 minute workout lmao

Source:My feelings

>it has way too much leg work and doesn't train some muscles enough, resulting in an unbalanced body
You're supposed to train your legs more than the rest of your body. Also this is true of any routine.

>which made people get the idea that 1/2/3/4 is an ideal when in fact your lower body would be way stronger than your upper body if you do that.
It's supposed to be you fucking nonce, you're anatomically designed that way.

>it promotes the wrong idea that compounds alone are enough to get a balanced physique. it's not intense enough.
It's a 6 month starting program aimed towards gaining massive strength through compounds, fast. If you're looking for something else you're picking the wrong routine.

>it has godawful 20 minute instructional videos that are completely useless. there are multiple people in their early 20s making much better videos than an instructor who has been doing this for decades.
>It has something I don't need therefore it's useless
Full retard

>it claims that you have to read the book or else you're not doing it right, bullcrap - I'm stronger than most of Veeky Forums and all I've used is resources freely available on google and some youtube videos.
>I chose a different path and got there, therefore that one is wrong
Full retard round 2

>what is important though is getting the technique correctly, because some of these compounds are deceptively difficult. deadlifts and rows especially are something you can do wrong for a long time before realizing it, which would lead to hitting a wall and get frustrated (or if you're especially bad, could lead to injury).
First sensible thing you've said


I never did SS but I see its benefits for the mass market looking for a solid strength basis and there's absolutely nothing memey about it.

He's actually right about 1/2/3/4. Yes your lower body is supposed to be stronger, but if you look at symmetric strength, you'll realize that 1/2/3/4 heavily favors t-rex mode, and is baby shoulder mode.

LMAO

>which made people get the idea that 1/2/3/4 is an ideal

Who the hell said that 1/2/3/4 is an ideal? It's just the baseline strength needed for someone to claim that they're stronger than the average person.

Don't do SS
Do pic related

No.
When you miss rep(s) on a lift 3 times in a row you deload the weight on that lift by 10%. When you have to deload on a lift twice, you switch from 5x5 to 3x5 on that lift.

This is basically SS with accessories, less squatting, and AMRAP sets.

All beginner programs are basically the same thing

>All beginner programs are basically the same thing

Exactly, which is why the debate on SS vs SL vs GSLP vs ICF vs Reg Park's etc. is retarded. Just pick one and do it for 3-6 months.

GSLP prioritizes bench and press instead of making you a t-rex. it also allows you to break PRs everytime, in either strength or reps through deloads, and the extra volume helps build a bit more muscle. pretty balanced, only downside is deadlifts failure set. remove and you are gucci

Lol show me someone benching 225 for reps and strict OHPing 135 for reps who has baby shoulders.

What's wrong with diddly set

A better question is when should i stop doing SS and what program should i move on to

After a maximum of 6 months
Whichever routine helps you accomplish your goals

Read the sticky

The reason SS is suggested is that it's the only program that literally holds your hand. If you read the book you'll be a pseudo expert on the squat, deadlift, bench press, overhead press, and power clean.

Second, it's goal is to get you as strong as possible in the big 3 lifts, as fast as possible. You don't do SS forever. Size is linked to strength directly, there is no way around this. Once you max out on SS you can switch to an intermediate strength program, a beginners powerlifting program, or a hypertrophy program pretty easily and will see immediate benefits from all the work you put in on SS.

SL 5x5 is literally SS with rows and a little more volume that probably should just be warm up weights. If you're that worried about your upper back, then switch out power cleans with some version of a row on SS, you'll be much better off for it.

high volume deadlift, especially for beginners who cant really tell when their form breaks down, is a baaaaaaaaaad idea man

I don't understand people who want to train the upper back like it's a big 3 lift.

It definitely gets more benefit from hypertrophy if you truly want a turtleshell. Do SS and throw in some Rows/Chins/Pulldowns after each workout if you're actually concerned about it.

>which made people get the idea that 1/2/3/4 is an idea

Not even Rip believes that. According to Rip:

"An adult male weighs at least 200 lbs."

Combine that with his assertion that:

"It was reckoned that a man should have been able to press his bodyweight" (Strong Enough: The Press)

And you get the logical conclusion that a man should be able to do a standing overhead press with at least 200 lbs.

>what program should i move on to


Do the Four Day Split routine found in Practical Programming.

There's nothing wrong with accessories.
Rip doesn't like it, but he expects people to do it anyways because people want to be more aesthetic (rip doesn't give a shit about that)

Do chin-ups/ curls at least. Some stuff for cores can be acceptable. Dips too

You don't want to focus on accessories though, the reason why people say no accessories is because people focus on them too much. Just don't be retarded

And you can also add a day of sport/cardio/high rep low weight/ body weight stuff. Like push-ups burpees, high rep (20) dumbbell work. Probably doing some kind of sport would be best
Nothing that kills you, but just a day to help develop work capacity

It should be noted that Chin-ups are a part of The Program™©®

This
No male should be squatting more weight than they bench
Squatting gives you big hips and thighs like a girl. Might as well shoot eostrogen into yourself
You want manly strength, a strong chest and biceps, that's real strength
No one wants hips on a man

1 plate OHP is only there to be a round number. Most people should OHP much more than that on SS by the time they hit those other bench marks

what is AMRAP?

most people aren't training for powerlifting

As many reps as possible. It really on works on deloads as the weight isn't that close to your max, otherwise your reps are going to be closer to 5. They are there so that you can go for rep PRs, thus making deloads somewhat enjoyable while also providing more volume to the workout

>No one wants hips on a man

>2017

>Not going for gorilla mode

Don't know about you, but girls love my bubble but.

As a joke kek

Whatever helps you sleep at night, my nigga ;)

SS is not for bodybuilding or powerlifting
It's a strength program, understand this.
It's recommended for everyone because most bodybuilding programs suck because in bodybuilding how a person responds to good doses of gear is more important than the routine they're on, most will grow, and get strong with any routine.

Starting strength puts a huge emphasis on the squat because our strength really comes from the lower body. The lower body generates force against the ground and the upper body transmits it. The squat has the most carryover to athletics and sports, second to perhaps the power clean. That's why you squat every workout. Power cleans also help develop the squat and deadlift by strengthening the lower body.
Squatting three times a week is not useful to look good. Nor is power cleaning.

Rip also considers the standing overhead press to be more important for upper body strength than the bench press. Many people will disagree with this. If you want to increase your powerlifting total a 1:1 press/bench ratio is inefficient. He also thinks it's necessary to stop shoulder imbalances, because the bench press strengthens your anterior Deltoid fibres and not so much posterior or lateral fibres. The problem is is that the overhead press is still anterior deltoid dominant, with some lateral deltoid assistance and no posterior deltoid involvement. Chin-ups do work the posterior deltoid though

3x5 is not dogma. Rip recommends that because it's what he found works best for the average person he coaches. It's enough volume to stimulate growth and hypertrophy, without letting acclimating fatigue or having a big breakdown in form. Some people might need something different. 3x5 works for most people Rip coaches.
The number of sets/reps isn't that important, what's important is linear progress on the big compounds

Assistance exercises don't kill SS. As long as they don't interfere with the program. But novices don't need them. Advanced trainees do

You're only supposed to do SS for a short time. If you read the book, you would know. You move on to a more complex program as soon as you are no longer achieving linear gains. It doesn't take long. Is it the best program? Not by a long shot. Is it the best beginner program? Definitely.

Funnily enough humans are unique for having big strong glut maxes because we're bipedal and need to keep ourselves upright a lot (aka in hip extension)
Gorillas and most other apes have larger, stronger glut medius than maximus. Our glut medius is pretty small

>45 reps per week
>way too much

AYY LMAO
Y
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L
M
A
O

>The lower body generates force against the ground and the upper body transmits it.

This guy gets it. What do the Squat, Standing Overhead Press, Deadlift, and power clean all have in common?

Force applied from the ground up.

Rip likes these four because they mimic how we use force in real life.

If you go to pick up a box, you will probably squat or deadlift it.

If you need to push something like a car, you will probably mimic the starting position of the press in terms of force distribution.

If you need to get something on or off of a high shelf, you will be pressing.

Moving moderately heavy things around? Probably mimics the power clean.

The only thing wrong with starting strength is the bench press. It isn't needed. Your chest is a squeezing muscle that brings your arms together or lifts your body up over something (like a muscle up).

Bench should be replaced with cable flys and dips.

Real life vertical pulling uses a pull up grip, but you need to work the biceps to carry things, so chin-ups are ok.

F U N C T I O N A L S T R E N G T H

it's 45 reps at a high % of 1rm, with the intention of progressing by 5lbs each workout

it is very very stressful, and that type of focus on the squat will directly detract from other lifts

you only have so much energy to dedicate to your training, and doing 3x5 squats near the limit of your abilities 3x a week will by itself take a lot of this energy

obviously there are routines with much more than 45 reps of squat a week (any Sheiko template), but these do not progress as aggressively and are working at different intensity ranges (sheiko usually has you hitting 2-3 reps at 80% and no more than 2 at 85%)

you are a powerful example of the dunning kruger effect, please come down from mount stupid now

no it's not Grandpa

Hello friends, pretty new to lifting myself. I'm on week 6 of strong lifts.

I'm not going mr. olympia with this shit, I used to weigh 427 pounds, I just hit 255 last week. I'm lifting on a deficit right now just to keep whatever muscle I do have. I literally do not give a fuck about my legs, but I understand the importance of squats because of the size of the muscle. my quads are already huge from carrying around my prior weight, just covered in fat yet. I need to build up my shoulders, back, chest, and arms. what accessories should i add, or is there a program that can help me build up my upper body once I hit my weight loss goal? ( i understand i'm not going to get any size on a deficit, but I'd like to start doing these exercises now so I can go full ass when I get to my goal weight and start bulking in a half year or so)

Do GZCL or Greyskull.

>the squat will directly detract from other lifts

Doesn't matter on SS, Rippletoad states pretty early on that the squat is the most important exercise you do on his program and your main tool to get strong

LMAO @ bodybuilders who skipped the book and didn't receive this information

Rippletits simply reguritated the old school programs of people like reg parks, he has no understanding of why they did things a certain way, he's just a snake oil salesman

Strong man, Olympic Lifts, Crossfit, etc...

All of these don't require bench press strength.

Bench press is only for fat powerlifters who bench because their fat reduces the range of motion and body builders who like having man titties (pic related).

Squats are literally the most important part of general strength training, your other lifts basically are secondary to the squat, which is the main reason why you always squat first before the rest of your lifts

Or do the actual Greyskull as per the book?

>it has way too much leg work and doesn't train some muscles enough, resulting in an unbalanced body, which made people get the idea that 1/2/3/4 is an ideal when in fact your lower body would be way stronger than your upper body if you do that.

lower body is stronger than upper body in a balanced body

>it promotes the wrong idea that compounds alone are enough to get a balanced physique. it's not intense enough.

it promotes the idea that compounds are best for building overall strength, which is true you mongoloid.

>it has godawful 20 minute instructional videos that are completely useless. there are multiple people in their early 20s making much better videos than an instructor who has been doing this for decades.

This is just your opinion and I can't really prove it wrong, but if you think there's nothing of value to learn in rippletit's videos your opinion is terrible

>it claims that you have to read the book or else you're not doing it right, bullcrap - I'm stronger than most of Veeky Forums and all I've used is resources freely available on google and some youtube videos

This is pretty much true. I've never read it, but I have watched a good number of his videos on different subjects and he clearly has good understanding of weightlifting for the purposes of increasing strength

>what is important though is getting the technique correctly, because some of these compounds are deceptively difficult. deadlifts and rows especially are something you can do wrong for a long time before realizing it, which would lead to hitting a wall and get frustrated (or if you're especially bad, could lead to injury).

this is true and is why ripetoad spends so much time on form

If you are an athlete, it is not a meme.
If you are not an athlete, it is a meme.

t. benchlet

SS is fine, but can someone tell me how it got that popular?
Similar routines have been recommended to beginners for ages. What makes SS so special that everyone talks about it?

It's easy for beginners and works fairly well. It's not perfect but is a good step in the direction of making it.

>AMRAP DL
Don't do that
Other than that It's ok

It's a fucking meme to retards who stay on it without deviation or change up in the program for two goddamn years and wonder why they've only made the most basic of gains.

>omg i stopped progressing on SS/TM/sheiko/5x5/whatever six months ago
>what do i do

CHANGE UP YOUR ROUTINE YOU STUPID FUCK
HOW NEW ARE YOU TO THIS

it matters when you want to look like you lift weights
t. 12 inch arms
says who?

There was a dark time when Rip was aligned with Crossfit.

This probably upped his popularity. As a side note:

Olympic Weightlifting = Jews

Historical, Rules Based, Serimonial

Crossfit = Catholics

Popular remake of Weightlifting with a bunch of extra stuff.

Mark Rippetoe = Martin Luther

After participating in Crossfit, spreads to gospel of the true strength training methods developed half way between the beginning of weightlifting and now.

Starting Strength Variants = Other Protestants

I don't like this one thing, so I'll start my own training style and $$$.

You're strong than the average person if you can bench over roughly 150lbs max. Stop believing the delusions of Veeky Forums that the average person can squat close to 315lbs.

No, you do the program if you want to lift weights.
Your standard of "looking like you lift" can literally be achieved by low bodyfat and muscle implants so go get those and stop wasting space in a gym.

Mark my words ive been on a cut while doing SS and ill have a body 99% better than fit.

See you in april.

member high school? Just fucking do 3x10. You will still get gains the same way

All your SS-like 5x5 programs are useless shit from the coaches without achievements.
Beginner should do this
jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/03/07/considerations-for-beginners/


Monday

Hi Bar Squat 3×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

Bench Press 3×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

Deadlift from 3” Blocks 3×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

Chest Supported Rows 4×10-15 Reps

Walking Lunges 2×12 Steps

Pushups 2×10-15 Reps (Weighted If Necessary)

Back Raises 2×10-15 Reps
Wednesday

Front Squat Squat 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

Widegrip Bench Press 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

Cable Rows 4×10-15 Reps

Leg Press 2×10-15 Reps

DB Incline Bench 2×10-15 Reps

Good Morning 2×10-15 Reps
Friday

Bench Press 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

RDLS 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

Lat Pulldowns 4×10-15 Reps

DB Step Ups 2×6 Each Leg

DB Military Press 2×10-15 Reps

Back Raises 2×10-15 Reps
Saturday

Box Squat 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

Closegrip Bench 4×8-12 Reps at 3 RIR

One Arm DB Rows 4×10-15 Reps

Goblet Squats 2×10-15 Reps

Incline Pushups 2×10-15 Reps (Weighted if Necessary)

Good Mornings 2×10-15 Reps

>"An adult male weighs at least 200 lbs."
This "not male" from pic will beat easily ten asses of ten Rippetoes.

>5 reps of DL per week
lol

>Strong man
Fat ugly roiders
>Olympic Lifts
DYELs
>Crossfit
Sport for pregnant women

>And Sheiko is basically SS with accessories and smart load planning

He's talking about men of average height, not manlets

>RIR
What does he mean by that?

Grey skull usually takes me half an hour-45min with warmups included and rests between sets

>Beating up a 60 year old man

Reps in reserve

What do you think about Greyskull? Could it make me into He-man?

If you think SS/SL focuses too much on legs, try doing ICF. Has a lot of accessory arm exercises. I did SL in the past and thought that I was getting a disproportionate body, but ICF is much better.