Cultural marxism

You literally cannot have Marxism without economics. It posits class struggle as the basis of all history.

Progressive and non-prescriptivist social views have existed since the enlightenment and liberalism which outdated Marxism by over a century. In some fields, like linguistic, the traditional prescriptivist views make literally no sense. There were a small, obscure group of philosophers who used the term.in earnest, but other than that, "cultural Marxism" is just a conspiracy to frame center-left ideas as far-left. There are almost no real Marxists left nowadays. North Korea, Vietnam and China are really no longer communist at all.

Fuck it, why not call eating sushi or burritos gastronomical Marxism while we're at it?

No thinkers are really independent.

You complain that lefties calling you fascist are stepping over the line, but defend the use of "cultural Marxism" as it is, for anything more left than you deem reasonable? Hypocritical.

I want to live in the world conservatives believe we are in.

Well then tell me what the link is between "cultural Marxism" as it is discussed today and the Marxist revolutions in the 20th century

Who is making these brainlet wojak pictures? There's always a new one.

I love how marxists are butthurt that their ideology is being wrongly blamed for the degenerate effects capitalism - the thing the core of their ideology is against - has on society and there is nothing they can do about it

At the very least, it will be a lot interesting than the world we live in now

Oh please, this is no Red Scare

Not accepting the status quo in any aspect of life and no respect for those who came before us.

>You complain that lefties calling you fascist are stepping over the line, but defend the use of "cultural Marxism"
well, /pol/ does

Obviously the turn leftism has taken in America isn't due to a conspiracy orchestrated by the frankfurt school and their successors. However you can't expect a reasonable person to look at several groups all spouting the exact same dogma and not believe they are in cahoots.

Taking homosexuals as an example again, they intentionally confuse gender as a social construct and biological sex to stir up controversy. You'd think they'd simply state their case...

Prenatal hormonal conditions cause parts of the brain associated with sexual orientation and hypothetically "body image" to develop or remain undeveloped, so even if someone has either the XX or XY chromosome they may have innate instincts like that are more common among the other biological sex.

Why not just say that? Instantly every smart person in the world will drop homophobia and smart good people will take your side. If they did that the demagogues abusing the fears of the gay community would be out of business.

>however if you don't agree 100% with certain dogmas like "diversity" you will be excluded from their inner circle allegedly for being too privileged to understand their viewpoint if not outright falsely accused of being a fascist pig.
Mate, I live in San Francisco. I'm surrounded by progressives and SJWs. Many of them are my friends. From what I can tell, there is no "inner circle". And I've never been accused of being privileged or a fascist pig even once, even though I frequently publicly question all sorts of progressive and SJW dogmas. Why? Because I state my arguments calmly and logically and because it's completely obvious to anyone who knows me that I support liberal (in the Euro sense, not the burger sense) values and am not a Nazi.

>you can't expect a reasonable person to look at several groups all spouting the exact same dogma and not believe they are in cahoots.
Sure you can. Even a cursory acquaintance with modern politics makes it obvious that there is no overarching "leftist agenda". There isn't even really such a thing as a "left". Progressives, socialists, SJWs, and standard Democrats are so different from each other that it barely makes sense to lump them together.
>Why not just say that? Instantly every smart person in the world will drop homophobia and smart good people will take your side.
Pretty much all smart people in the world have already dropped homophobia, or were never homophobes in the first place.

Economic liberal values too?

What I'm getting from this thread so far is confirmation of a couple things that I already knew...
The alt-right (for lack of a better word) hysterically latches on to the small minority of "leftists" who actually are rabid anti-white, anti-male, violent antifa, or other such types and greatly exaggerates the influence of those people to make it seem like it's some huge coordinated menace.
Meanwhile, some people assume that if they tried to question progressive dogma, they would be shouted down and called Nazis, so they never even try - whereas in reality, if you speak calmly and logically, avoid hysterics, and make it clear that you're not a Nazi, a great number of progressives will be happy to discuss things with you even if you question their dogma.

I support free markets and capitalism and oppose communism. That said, I'm also no economic libertarian - I think it's too extreme and impractical.

>whereas in reality, if you speak calmly and logically, avoid hysterics, and make it clear that you're not a Nazi, a great number of progressives will be happy to discuss things with you even if you question their dogma.
Not really, attempt it in a private atmosphere and they might be cowardly and shrink away from going rabid, but the most milk-toast and cloying demeanoured individuals like Jordan Peterson or some other le logic focused centrist fag will be shouted down in the public sphere for having a detracting opinion from the all encompassing hivemind, and don't fool yourself into thinking it isn't all encompassing.

It's not all-encompassing, though. The fact that a small group of fools shows up to shout people down doesn't mean that this small group is representative of progressives in general. To argue that would be like arguing that all Trump voters are Nazis.

So, in other words, you're a leftypol shill who takes the words of his fellow shills as truth and ignor the statements of actual people

Wut. Can you address the actual statement I made?

It is though, the ones who aren't die-hard ideologues even though those might be cowards as well if it came to a one on one personal dialogue are whipped around like dogs by the ones who are. Think the "soft totalitarianism" of Sweden but outside of that shitty country and in reality, we're living in clown world already. What does it matter if you can explain to some unimportant fag that you're not a fan of hormone replacement for pre-pubescents or kids in drag and him agreeing when he'll seep back in to the bug person state he was in before if he wants to be a part of the society that imposes those views and punishes detractors socially and sometimes even legislatively? It's a pointless endeavour really.

By that logic, we can argue that alt-right extremism is all-encompassing among Republican voters because most of them voted for a guy who was strongly supported by alt-right extremists.

I have no idea how you'd think that follows.

only /pol/ brainlets use the term so it's not like it's hurting our cause that much
Our politics is defined by material conditions rather than academic jargon, when capitalist inequality betrays the proles to the extreme most of them will turn against the rich without even knowing what Marxism is anyway

>self-declared cultural marxists in the academia use the term to describe themselves for decades
>/pol/ starts using the term aa a boogeyman
>leftists start acting almost as retarded as /pol/luters do by pretending /pol/ came up with the term
can't wait until Macron is declared European Emperor and radical centrist death squads execute all the wingnuts desu

>self-declared cultural marxists
no such thing
>radical centrist death squads
this but unironically

Your statement shows an obvious confirmation bias that you basically admit to having but brush away by cognitive dissonance.

I don't think it follows, but for the same reason as why it doesn't follow, this: also doesn't follow.

Nah, I'll pass on the radical centrist death squads. What we need is radical centrist "fair jury trial and humane sentencing upon conviction in cases of actual political violence" squads, together with continued strong support for free speech. It would be beautiful to observe a free society effectively tackle wingnut extremism without resorting to wingnut extremist methods.

>It's the capitalists
>muh equality
>poor oppressed proles ;(
Jesus, just fuck off back to your university.

His post doesn't follow my post, how does mine not follow his?
I'm saying you can have some individuals who won't retardedly berate you for not wanting HIV AIDs injected into you and mandatory castration camps but they are the irrelevant ones, not the people who espouse the fringe-extending, conquering ideology. "Far-left" SJWs conquer Carthage and "moderate", "center-left", "liberal" types salt the earth.

You've got a very alarmist idea of the current political scene. The vast majority of people who have serious political influence are not SJW extremists.

What SJW "extremism" is is constantly changing though, that's the point, to push and leap over boundaries and steam roll. That's what "progress" is intended to be, forward momentum.
Accepting pre-pubescent hormone "treatment" was "extreme" not too long ago but it's par the course now even though "most people" are itchy on the subject, but "the next hurdle" is a common phrase among the poz'd trench storming crowd.

The number of people who get hormone treatments is tiny, and if you have issues with it there are, I think, much better ways to address the matter than by lumping together all progressives as some monolithic block and issuing alarmist pronouncements.
Have you noticed that the Democrats managed to beat back their populist progressive wing in their last national primaries, whereas the Republicans succumbed to their own populist wing?

>The number of people who get hormone treatments is tiny
Literally what makes you think that relativity is some sort of counter, who cares if it's a small number of adults or kids that do it, it's symptomatic of the what changes they're trying to bring about.

>there are, I think, much better ways to address the matter than by lumping together all progressives as some monolithic block
They are though, show me why they aren't, they certainly operate to achieve their ends as such and drown out opposing views as though they were.

>b-but my progressive friends allow me to have these opinions after I bow and scrape and promise I'm no smelly ugly stupid low class nawtsea
ecstatic for you lad

>Have you noticed that the Democrats managed to beat back their populist progressive wing in their last national primaries, whereas the Republicans succumbed to their own populist wing?
No I don't follow mutt politics that much, fill me in.

It's no use, user, they'll still think it's real.

>Literally what makes you think that relativity is some sort of counter, who cares if it's a small number of adults or kids that do it, it's symptomatic of the what changes they're trying to bring about.
If you want to claim that there's a real major problem, then you should back that argument up, not just talk vaguely about changes that "they" are trying to bring about ("they" in quotes because these types of causes are not supported by some monolithic block).
>They are though, show me why they aren't, they certainly operate to achieve their ends as such and drown out opposing views as though they were.
Just go get to know some progressives in real life or go read progressive writing online and you'll see that there's a range of opinions there.
>ecstatic for you lad
I don't bow and scrape, I have normal calm discussions with people. I'm practically a race realist and I've had lots of calm, intelligent discussions with progressives about race issues.
>No I don't follow mutt politics that much, fill me in.
Sanders lost, Hillary won. On the other hand, among the Republicans, Trump and his populist demagoguery beat the rest of their more traditionally Republican candidates.

The "extreme far left" is irrelevant. So is /pol/, but they haven't figured out that Trump's base is McMansion-dwelling boomers and not white nationalist millennial NEETs.

>If you want to claim that there's a real major problem, then you should back that argument up
In what way would you like me to back it up that I haven't?
>Just go get to know some progressives in real life or go read progressive writing online and you'll see that there's a range of opinions there.
I have and there's not really, they all agree fundamentally on social/cultural issues because they have to due to the coercive atmosphere they've constructed to prevent dissension and enable their progress.
>I don't bow and scrape
>and make it clear that you're not a Nazi
>has to justify to them that he's not their ebil boogeyman before they'll deign to hold any discourse
sounds like bowing, scraping, cloying cowardice to me
>Sanders lost, Hillary won
Ah yes the two people that hold the same views regarding culture and society, only Sanders held them a little bit earlier because they're derived from ideology and Hillary derived them from Sanders later because her cadre are bottomfeeders in regards to that and are picking up the droppings of hippies like Sanders because his refuse is in vogue now. The only thing they disagree on when it comes to whatever progressiveness they talk about is relatively small economic things. Whether fags have boyslaves who they pump full of estrogen is irrelevant to Hillary Clinton and "establishment politics" so they sponsor it, but it's a matter of principle for Hernie. What was your point here?

Why are you such a hysterical faggot?

t.HIV AIDs enthusiast

>In what way would you like me to back it up that I haven't?
Please explain why I should give a shit about trans advocacy.
>I have and there's not really, they all agree fundamentally on social/cultural issues because they have to due to the coercive atmosphere they've constructed to prevent dissension and enable their progress.
Yeah, there are cultist types among progressives, but this isn't unique to progressives. There are also loads of cultist Trumpists and cultist alt-rightists. There are even plenty of cultist libertarians.
>sounds like bowing, scraping, cloying cowardice to me
I don't try to make sure that people don't think I'm a Nazi because I'm afraid of what would happen if they thought I was a Nazi - I do it because I want to have actual political conversations with those people and with some of them, the first step is to make sure they understand that I'm not some stereotypical conservative just because I happen to agree with conservatives on certain issues. It's not like I end up doing a lot of this, either. Most progressives don't assume I'm a Nazi in the first place.
>Ah yes the two people that hold the same views regarding culture and society, only ... What was your point here?
My point is that I think your view of US politics is simplistic. There are major disagreements between mainstream Dems, Bernie supporters, and hardcore SJWs. "Relatively small economic things", you say? What? You think the difference between what Bernie advocates economically and what mainstream Dems want is small, but that trans rights is some huge issue? I don't understand, do you only pay attention to culture war issues?
>Whether fags have boyslaves who they pump full of estrogen
What's the point of talking with you if you're gonna make up exaggerated bullshit?

>Please explain why I should give a shit about trans advocacy.
pic related,
>inb4 um akhstually those are drag kween's hun
Trannies used to be all around derided people living in the luxurious fat folds of the bosom of urban centers, they're still that but now with the internet hives of them have developed on tumblr, Veeky Forums and elsewhere where they've gathered and decided they'll start "self-advocating" or spreading. They're definitely not just the epic meme of "individuals doing things privately behind closed doors locked away never for the world to have to see but just to tolerate : ^ )", it's literally fag reproduction replacement for the biological method they've done away with through their faggotry, Sweden even has gender neutral kindergartens (Sweden being our archetype here of the progressive soft authoritarianism state/nation)
>inb4 um akhstually those are drag kween's hun
>Yeah, there are cultist types among progressives
No these things are agreed upon unilaterally, some privately detracting individuals are irrelevant as I've said again and again.
>I don't try to make sure that people don't think I'm a Nazi because I'm afraid of what would happen if they thought I was a Nazi
>But I am afraid they'll refuse to have discourse with me if they misinterpret my having certain views tangentially related to their ideological boogeyman as my being that boogeyman and them proceeding to freeze me out [or do whatever]

>"Relatively small economic things", you say? What? You think the difference between what Bernie advocates economically and what mainstream Dems want is small
This is the fundamental difference between us you goon, you're some individualist libertarian not concerned with the interference of people with the collective/the culture/the national geist, you think it doesn't matter, but it is pretty much all I'm concerned over since I don't want to live in poz'd clown world any longer.

Also it's just hyperbole calm down.

So you're a leftist that has been convinced you're a centrist by your hard-left friends. Cool!

How is that leftistism, this discussion is slowly becoming drivile

>what is neo-marxism in general

This is usually what stormtards mean when they complain about "cultural Marxism", it's just that they usually have no idea about what they're talking about and think that a bunch of Jews in post-war Germany gathered around the table and made it up as a way tot take down the West when in reality it's just nerds critically examining society through a lens of Marxist theory.

>supports capitalism
>leftist
how retarded can you be?

>The extreme far left is a widespread problem and shouldn't be allowed.

The “Marxism” in the term is most likely for shock value, and is used to push moderates further towards the right for an agenda. It describes a very real phenomenon, but when broken down makes zero sense.

Meta Radical Centrism

Cultural Marxism refers particularly to the Frankfurt School

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School

The Frankfurt School (German: Frankfurter Schule) is a school of social theory and philosophy associated in part with the Institute for Social Research at the Goethe University Frankfurt. Founded during the interwar period, the School consisted of neo-Marxist dissidents who felt at home in none of the existent capitalist, fascist, or communist systems of the time. Many of these theorists believed that traditional theory could not adequately explain the turbulent and unexpected development of capitalist societies in the twentieth century. Critical of both capitalism and Soviet socialism, their writings pointed to the possibility of an alternative path to social development.[1]

Critical theory and the critique of ideology

The Frankfurt School's work cannot be addressed without understanding the objectives of critical theory. Initially outlined by Max Horkheimer in his Traditional and Critical Theory (1937), critical theory may be defined as a self-conscious social critique that is aimed at change and emancipation through enlightenment and that does not cling dogmatically to its own doctrinal assumptions.[16][17] The original aim of critical theory was to analyze the true significance of "the ruling understandings" generated in bourgeois society, in order to show how they misrepresented actual human interaction in the real world, and in so doing functioned to justify or legitimize the domination of people by capitalism. A certain sort of story (a narrative) was provided to explain what was happening in society, but the story concealed as much as it revealed. The Frankfurt theorists generally assumed that their task was mainly to interpret the areas of society Marx had not dealt with, especially in the superstructure of society.[18]

SJWism can be traced directly to Herbert Marcuse and the whole New Left movement with its discarding of the class struggle in favor of gender, race, and later, transgender struggles. Even original Marxism advocated for similar things, like schools basically being marxist indoctrination centers, which was implemented by people like Gyorgy Lukas. This idea that this patriarchal hierarchical free market society is all some evil matrix constructed by the evil capitalist over lords, and it must be destroyed in order to liberate humanity!

>Cultural Marxism refers particularly to the Frankfurt School
Nah, the "Cultural Marxism" is a meme about Frankfurt School being a tool of Communism to subvert the West and establish Communism.

>I love how marxists are butthurt that their ideology is being wrongly blamed for the degenerate effects capitalism
Why do you constantly blame capitalism for these things while you champion them user? does that mean that capitalism is right?

How is that not what communist want to do user?

What? I don't see how did Frankfurt did "What the communists want".

Heck, in reality FS did more harm to communism than something that communists might want.

Those degenerates are the product of our capitalist(liberal) society, you fucking idiot.
In capitalism nothing has value, but everything has a price.

So you are unironcially claiming the Frankfurt School did in no way at all try to promote communism? this blatant dishonesty or ignorance is pathetic user.

>LARPing as a /pol/tard when your shill lines logic is called out
lol either capitalism is great for promoting things like tranny rights/third wave feminism/globalism ect. or all those things are retarded. Which is it?

All those things are retarded, I'm not a retarded liberal or egalitarian.

...

Fuck off liberal, I'm tired of you faggot LARPing as communist revolutionaries, when you're just repeating the status quo. Fascism is the way of the future, it's time for you homos to step aside and let history take course.

>The future is my 60 year old meme movement
You're just as bad as the commie LARPers

top tier cringe

I hate the KKK and pride parades,where does that put me

in a cubicle

>60 year old
Much older than that, liberal moron

That was the last time anyone took it seriously

dude, communism has been around longer than that when it was first implemented...

People are taking it seriously, you fucking idiot.
It's the only ideology that's censored and immediately deplatformed, because it challenges the people in power.

Well, first you have trouble to interpet narrative of the meme or you are dishonest about it. So let me explain it:
>Communism failed to subdue west after the Great War, because of our stronk virile and christianly morals
>Communists then invented "Cultural Marxism" to destroy those morals and establish communism

>So you are unironcially claiming the Frankfurt School did in no way at all try to promote communism?
Well, one would be retarded to use "in no way" in these matters, so I shall use generally or no adverbium at all to indicate so.

Let's focus on the two leading men, Marcuse and Adorno
>Between 1943 and 1950, Marcuse worked in U.S. Government service for the Office of Strategic Services (predecessor of the Central Intelligence Agency) where he criticized the Ideology of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union in the book Soviet Marxism: A Critical Analysis (1958).
>During student protests in the 60 Adorno wasn't exactely popular amongst the protesters. Once they even wrote on his blackboard "“If Adorno is left in peace, capitalism will never cease”

Calling FS a force of the communism simply indicates one had not read a single book from them or even the fucking wiki page. But feel free to claim that people working for fucking CIA during the cold war were doing so to spread communism.

calm the fuck down already holy fuck
do you even realize how pathetic it looks when yet another retard starts sperging out about white ethnostates and fascism while sitting in front of his pc

You calm down

I see this term thrown about often, but what does it mean?

It's a catch all for "things I don't like", much like leftists call everything they don't like nazism or fascistic

I'm curious how in the sea of Alex Jones' and Steve Bannons actually influencing public opinion and literally making politicians, you believe that the extreme far left is the problem.

>but what does it mean?
That depends on from what mouth it came from.

my guess

he can't get a gf despite not actually trying, so he blames it on the sjw problem

Cultural marxism doesnt exist.

>Calling FS a force of the communism simply indicates one had not read a single book from them or even the fucking wiki page.
So youre just a bullshit artist then who can only strawman? Seriously, how fucking deluded are you to actually claim that Marcuse and the Frankfurt School in general were NOT marxist user? What was the New Left user? Who was "The Father of the New Left?"

CULTURAL MARXISM/NEO-MARXISM WAS JUST A RETOOLING OF MARXISM IN THE FACE OF THEIR PERCEIVED FAILURES IN THE USSR YOU FUCKING ASSHAT

Oh hell, Becky thinks my politics are like, just not okay and totally cringey, how will I ever recover.
I'll just have to get a bunch of spergs and stoners to shoot up the office of some magazine and then you and all your friends will line up to suck my toes, make excuses on my behalf and interpret everything I have ever said in the most conciliatory and anodyne way.
Worked for the other guys! ;^)

...

Hurr neo liberals are akshully marxists JUST WATCH INFOWARS

All the actual marxist countries were hugely into faggotry and multi culturalism amirite (hint: they werent)

>but what does it mean?
Its just another name for Neo-Marxism. When most other communist/socialist/and marxist looked at the rise of the USSR and Stalin, they just trashed the ideology all together and saw it as a failure. But some western marxist philosophers sort of reexamined marxism to "fix it" they were critical of capitalism just like regular marxist, but they also criticized the brutal rule of the soviet union. Their most famous change was the rejection of a purely class struggle and labor based movement (since most of these groups didnt give a shit about marx in the post war society) and instead focused on various identity groups and their oppression.

>hurr durr tier arguments
here user, time to do some easy homework, heres Marcuse himself laying it all out

youtube.com/watch?v=vm3euZS5nLo

CULTURAL MARXIST WERE CRITICAL OF CAPITALIST SOCIETIES AND THE SOVIET EASTERN BLOC. Do you now understand this? Do you get that "Neo-Marxism" or "the NEW Left" means that it went through some sort of change in ideology?

>cultural marxism does not exist

Im aware of them. Thing is, the vast majority of marxists WERE NEVER LIKE THIS AND STILL ARENT LIKE THIS IN NON EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. These so called cultural marxists are a fringe group in the big picture of communist history and they are being used by capitalists.

Inb4 hurr b-but frankfurter school. I dont give a fuck, they are liberals. If you want real marxists look at the UDSSR or third world communists.

just spitballing here but I think part of the reason that cultural marxism has become such a successful scare tactic is the already negative associations people have about communism in general. Just the term "cultural marxism" sounds like "communism but this time they're taking over our culture"

>These so called cultural marxists are a fringe group
oh well what do you know, cultural marxism went from being a nonexistante boogeyman to simply a "fringe group" in the course of just 2 post calling out your bullshit!

Youre so ignorant of what you are talking about that you brought up the fact that Marcuse was critical of the soviet union, when that has always been the entire basis of cultural marxism. Just take the L bitch

It's because of the left-wing slant of the culture industry.
Every wine sipping luvvie and eye rolling cunt call themselves socialist in some sense. Or centrist, or liberal. All social democratic in reality.
The term cultural Marxism is popular because feckless Marxists, apostate or otherwise, who are too timid, comfortable or lazy to do real political work instead choose to colonise newpapers and other such media outlets, as well as writing books, TV shows and plays where they foist their sanitised perspective on people forced by the bourgeois state to pay for their LARPing.
Every 'liberal' in Europe at least could do with reading Marx, if only to force them to recognise how heavily he informs their politics without them even being aware of it.
In the same sense that the Southron planters called abolitionism a bridge to socialism, modern right wingers are just better at noticing socialist genealogies in 'centrist' and 'liberal' positions.
In their typically paranoiac way they attribute to malice the result of bovine ignorance and their alienation from 'mainstream culture'.

because thats what it is user. Why do you think tranny shit is flooding everything? Where do you think SJW come from?

Maybe the fact that traditional social roles and the concomitant gender roles as well as the communities, beliefs and customs that buttressed them have been eroded into nothing over the past 200 years by the radical change wrought by the mass-production factory system and the subsequent nihlistic consumer culture?

>Maybe the fact that traditional social roles and the concomitant gender roles as well as the communities, beliefs and customs that buttressed them have been eroded into nothing over the past 200 years by the radical change wrought by the mass-production factory system and the subsequent nihlistic consumer culture?

What a concise explanation, it justifies as it explains. It's like a 'transitional' argument.