How am I doing Veeky Forums - where should I go from here, lose one or two more kg then slowbulk?

Thats the spirit bro, youre gonna make it
I think its time for u to slow bulk and focus on getting lifts up

i was a lot worse than this but this is my earliest picture

Thanks user

I look like you at 70kg should I kms or what

he isn't fat, just not a lot of muscle on his frame

OP, try getting to 80kg. but after that i'd say it's say to start slow bulking from there (+300 surplus or +500 WITH CARDIO)

He's not good to bulk though

One or two kg loss won't get him good to bulk either.

I know, I know, dyel offering advise. I NEVER advise anyone and this is the *first* time I opened my mouth.

I only do it because I don't want him to fall for a literal troll/bait.

The more fat on your body, the less muscle, more fat you gain bulking.

That's why you CUT TO SINGLE DIGIT before you bulk, ALWAYS.

he's like 20%, are you guys *insane*?

ALl information taken from

1. Sticky

2. Every reputable trip on the site

If it makes you feel better OP. I wish I had a better body so I could offer advise with my authority, but no one said NOTHING and I DON'T want to see you fall for such a malicious bait/lie.

Just look online, do research, no one that isn't user posting fucking malice and lies will tell you to 20% bf bulk

don't listen to me, listen to *literally* everyone that isn't trolling you

you need to lose 20+ pounds to bulk.
Well, 3 months between this photos/ 24 lbs.

Obviously not OP but I have the same fat storage.

Amazing how I can be 15% bodylard and have shredded arms (shredded tooth picks LAMO) and huge ammount of fat on my hips

>he isn't fat
>25% bf

CMON

jesus christ your hips are like 40 inches wide, RIP genetics.

You have no power to change your hips, so attacking that is unfair.

You do, however, have control over your hair, and that shit is a really pathetic failed attempt at a hitler youth cut.

Either go with a correct hitler youth cut, or shave that numale shit right off

id say inbetween 18-20% definitely not 25

you can't talk shit about his hair without a picture

Ok, let's say he's 20% (he's like 22.5 minimum)

It's all fucking redundant, because he needs to be at 9% to bulk.

Meaning he needs to be 183 times (20-9) = 11 so (183 times .89) = 162 fucking pounds to bulk.

Assuming he loses 100% fat. It could be 160, 155, 165 is he gains muscle.

Point is he is NOT EVEN CLOSE.

And people are telling him to bulk now?

Jesus christ.

OP hear, thanks for the comments guys, i'll stick with the cutting and see how I go, i've gone from 93kg to 83kg in a few months, ill keep it up and see how I go. I haven't been tracking any calories but once I start stalling in weight loss i'll track my calories.

>he listen to me

thank god.

Post pics at 165 and let's see how you look.

Well honestly, i've been down the route of not really caring about my bf and lifting and eating a shit load. It was great strength gains but i still looked fat and had man titties.

I mean it depends.

Do you want to be healthy, attractive, have visible jawline?

If the awnser was yes to any of those, then cut.

Do you want to be prediabetic and able to lift heavy shit off the floor and look disgusting? bulk

Well the female attention is nice, getting numbers is getting easier, more confidence and i'm lighter which is good for racing my dirt bike. So yeah fuck being a fatcunt anymore

My hair is super standard and boring. Nothing outstanding about it at all, posting a pic would be useless.

The point is that if you're going to attempt a cut like that (with the short sides and the longish top), you need to do a proper hitler youth cut and not that crap he's got

>that feel when jogging and you don't feel the backfat bouncing around after every step

there's nothing quite like it senpai.

Just because you don't know what to do and parrot what you hear from people who are at way different training levels than a beginner like OP (or yourself for that matter) doesn't make you an expert lmao

Slow bulk away once you lose the extra kilo or two

You will end up with a nice re-comp if you keep your calories at a moderate surplus and train with high intensity.

Man i eat so much already too, physical job im eating like 3000 calories a day and losing weight... can't imagine trying to gain weight.

He's hovering at like 22.5%.

His face looks fat as fuck. You can't see his jawline. At all. He probably gets out of breath after 15 minutes of cardio.

Any fatter and he's fucking prediabetic and his health is at risk.

Why, why on earth, would you advise him to bulk?

I know why. Because you're a fucking delusional lardass that bulked at 20% and ended up 40%.

Everytime you see a guy that isn't OBESE and has a JAWLINE you have this huge envy, so you try to meme other people into getting as obese as you.

Post a pic, prove me wrong (you cant) (you wont).

>You will end up with a nice re-comp if you keep your calories at a moderate surplus and train with high intensity.

>calorie surplus
>recomp

lamooo

He will gain muscle and fat you fuking fat idiot

good, keep cutting. your jawline really pops, you see separation of the bone and muscle, sunken cheeks, etc, as you lean out.

fuck off alex you know nothing, post your Dyel physique so people know to instantly discredit you.

cut a little, you have very little muscle and would look better if you lean bulk so long as it stays under 18%
i don't advise trying to cut longer than you need. Just lay the foundation and get some muscle on your frame.

The kid's 19% MAX. I'd say 17-18%

>post your dyel physique

did I not?

>know nothing

it's 100% fact

this guy is either

1. Trolling

2. Obese

there is NO other reason to advise OP to bulk other than

1. malice

2. some sort of bizzare HAES stuff where he tries to convert everyone to look like he does

>look better

With no fucking jawline? And rolls of fat? Yeah he'll look GREAT.

whats your fucking game here why are you trying to make people diabetic

yes

>22.5%
>.5%
im convinced you are the authority on bodyfat

going to have to assume this is bait, he's definitely not 22% just has wideish hips

>advocating this kunt to lose 20 pounds minimum to start gaining muscle

clearly projecting,
you delusional fuck

>projecting

Projecting?

Why use words that you don't know what they fucking mean?

I guess I'm projecting because I'm cutting and looking better and feeling better and advising OP to do the same instead of blowing up like a blimp, and gaining fuckloads of excess fat because of his fucked up hormone profile?

You're retarded

1. You're obsessed with lowering your bf% because you're a fat fuck, aren't you on an EC stack or something?

You aren't mentally healthy.

2. You have no idea what 25% bf looks like on someone with wide hip frame

3. You think there's no middle ground between cutting to 10% or >>blowing up like a blimp

tldr; kys stop giving advice you deranged individual

I would say go back to >>/fraud/ but they don't seem to like you that much there either.

>you're a fat fuck

Well, yeah, hence the cutting

>ec stack

yeahhhh bby

2. Post your body and I'll find out

3.

he's undeniably too fat to bulk. Only a lardass like you (or me, except, I'm fat and not retarded, not fat and retarded)

3.

His weight is already fucking disgusting, look at his face. No fucking definition in his jaw muscles, no jawline.

It's gross dude. Why would you want to gain fat when you look like that?

Furthermore, no matter how much muscle you have on your body, you look like fucking shit when you're fat.

Look at Isley. We both know how much fucking muscle Isley has.

Yet he looks like total fucking gabrage, face, body, EVERYTHING, because he refuses to cut.

That's fine, he's a POWERLIFTER.

OP DOESNT GIVE A SHIT. OP WANTS TO LOOK GOOD.

And you give him advise that will make him look worse....

Fucking shame on you dude, really.

>contributes literally nothing to the discussion and makes no effort to prove me wrong on any points

ok then. it's been a pleasure, hope you make it one day and post in a less annoying format.

What discussion? It's black and white. You have no points.

He's fat as fuck.

His hormone profile is fucked because of how fat he is. He WILL gain more fat and less muscle bulking.

That's the crux of the arguement. There are lots of other points, like not having a disgusting fat face, being able to fuck for longer, etc etc that go with not being fat, but you're already BTFO so why mention it

Also,

>implying you're not a fat fuck

And yet you are LITTERALLY fucking HAES

>just eat more! bulk! gain bodyfat!
>doesn't matter you're too fat to bulk! do it anyways :3.
>you're not that fat! you look fine! (despite being fat as fuck)
>people that want to lose bf% are "mentally unhealthy"

GO BACK TO TUMBLR BUD

Alex how fucking stupid are you really.
is right.
You're delusional and obsessed with cutting because you were fat once. However your so fucking skinny now you can't even build muscle properly. Also you're fucking retarded if you think you can lean bulk at 8% body fat. Stay skinny faggot. OP probably has differentered goals than you anyway. Most people do. Cause you're goals are unrealistic and stupid kys.

>goals

My goal is to LOOK GOOD. That's why I'm bodybuilding.

There are two different reasons people lift

1. Aesthetics

2. Strength

Since OP and I are BOTH lifting for aesthetics, we have the SAME goal.

I may be DYEL but I get/got some of the *best* coaching out there from NatT, MasT, lotus.

And they unanimously agree that you're supposed to get to 8-9% then bulk.

But 20% lardass user says otherwise. Hmm, who do I listen to?

>stupid

Looking good is stupid?

Like 90% of people here are lifting for aesthetics. Seeing as how OP is lifting for aesthetics, obviously, he doesn't think it's stupid.

>unrealistic

Unrealistic to get to 9%? Put your fork down fatass.

It's not hard to cut natty to 9% at all, according to lotus, natT. You only clen and dnp if you want to get to like 7-6% for a competition.

That's stupid and unrealistic.

You're legit retarded. That fact that you are so fucking fat you think a single digit bodyfat is unrealistic and unobtainable natty just makes my head spin.

You don't even need to worry about lepton levels and refeeds until 9%-8%. All you have to do is eat less fatass.

>obsessed with cutting

So my goal is to make as much natty progress as I can as fast as I can. The way you do this is cutting to single digits then bulking.

According to every single guy with a notable physique. According to 30% bf user, it's bad though.

you don't really need to write an essay when you've been btfo by 3 different ppl lol

ur rite

>3 different fat fucks and a HAES activist can't produce one single shred of evidence OR dispute my claims

>none of them are brace enough to post their fucking 40% bf IIFYM nutrition "physiques"

BTFO hard

OP is doing good and I don't want to see him regress.

There is no reason to consciously try to add fat to your body read: bulk unless you are already lean.

No one can dispute this but another fatfuck will call me retarded or something and then I wlll be 'BTFO' by 5 people

I look a bit like OP, wide hips, already cut ~35lbs, now around 172 at 6'1, so should he (and me as well) now bulk or cut further?

Make sure you take advice from trips with good physiques not HAES activist anons.

Wait until lotus natT or MasT are awake and ask them

Sounds like sage advice. I was thinking of atleast slowing the cut down, for -500 messes with my ability to handle uni.

Really? I've been at -1000 for four months with no problem.

Uh, you can combat hunger pretty well by stuffing your face with broccoli. Shit has no calories and it's really filling.

I jumped on an EC stack last week and I'm actually having trouble eating at -1000, need to force feed myself at around 1000 calories eaten.

Also gives you a ton of energy, I mean, it's basically meth right? Might help you study.

You'll be dehydrated hardcore so make sure you drink tons of water.

I'd say if hunger is distracting you from your work just buy a fucking huge bag of broccoli and stuff yourself all day everyday.

You don't really need EC I'm taking it as a preworkout mostly

Much muscle loss/lift drops from -1000?

Increase in both muscle mass AND strength

But that is only because I am dyel beyond all belief.

When you have zero muscle mass and are weak you have to like, really fucking try not to put on muscle.

If you have any real progress or have been at it for a while, you will lose both strength and muscle, so I wouldn't recomend cutting that rpdily

But you said you look like OP right? Shit, man.... you can probably fucking make strength AND size gains at -1000...

im not the guy you're talking to i just happened by this thread. I'm like OP but when I was ~9% I was emaciated af, spent a few months slow bulking, gained like 12kgs most of that being fat.

So you gained 27 lbs... in how many months? That doesn't sound slow....

Slow refers to 2 lbs a month (+250).

I think you bulked too fast.

The reason lotus and those guys bulk at +500 is because it's really hard to gain muscle when you have that much.... muscle.

DYELs like us don't need to bulk that hard, just +250 is plenty.

I have a lot of respect for lotus and truly believe his advice is genuine and optimal

Here's some quotes

>Only clean food
>+250 bulk
>2 lbs a month
>slow and controlled
>do cardio while bulking

I plan to do all of that when I start bulking, hopefully, to minimize fat gains.

I plan to hit 9%, emaciated, bulk to 10%, then cut back down to 9% and repeat.

That why you never lose your jaw and definition in your face + stay lean year round.

I think that's a good way to go.

Yeah, my build is similar to OP's, wide hips, short clavicles. I'm a bit slimmer (some ab separation) and have a little, only a little more muscle, esp. in chest and legs. I've been eating ~2000-2200 a day, my TDEE is estimated around 2600-2800 (gym every other day) and I feel like dying, constantly thinking about food. Actually already eating lots of broccoli and other veggies.

Another thing that helped me was, I would just eat all my calories in the morning and afternoon and early evening. I wouldn't get hungry until around 3-4 hours after I ate, so by the time I got hungry at night, I just went to sleep. Bam.

Can't be hungry when you're asleep.

However, I hear lots of small meals evenly spread out is optimal? So careful? Do research. I know jackshit. Am dyel.

Anyways my TDEE was est 3500-3750 and I was eating 2500.

I do a lot of volume. And cardio. Also have ADHD so I pace around all day, which burns 500 cal a day or something.

As it turns out, too much volume. Too much cardio.

I have a fever and am sick now and have trouble sleeping, leading me to believe I am overtraining. Careful of that.

Just be careful in general taking advice from anons. People that are 40% bodyfat feel the need to offer advice on when to bulk (20% bf lamo).

They offer advise that directly contradicts stuff lotus and mast say, and have no shame.

It's cancer. If you are dyel say so.

Word. That's the thing, people are really fast to suggest bulking. As for OP, I'd say keep cutting, maybe not until 9% but atleast under 80kg, maybe 75, and then a slow bulk. I am a dyel tho so what do I know.

>people are really fast to suggest bulking.

I do not understand it.

I think maybe like, people bulk at 20% bodyfat, and end up perma bulking to 40%, and then they want to justify their mistake by advising other people to do the same thing?

Like, misery loves company you know?

>maybe under 75

See, IIRC it depends on bf%, not weight. If OP eats at like -10 calories deficiet for 10 years, he will hit 75kg sooner or later, and be 8% bodyfat.

(You get the point right?unsure on those numbers lol).

I'm a big believer in listening to people that are successful, and have no agenda.

Lotus, etc, have all succeeded in bodybuilding, and they are not selling anything to me. They have nothing to profit.

So why not listen to what they have to say?

I look like absolute garbage. Lifting for 4 months. Fat, and no size.

And yet, not a single one of the 10 posters debating me was able to post a body that could force me to shut up.

That's really, really scary to think that people that can't even BTFO my pathetic body are offering advise like experts.

After the level of shitflinging and insults, of course you would post your body if you weren't 40% bf and dyel on top of that and just win the debate because you have a better physique.

>he has ADHD

explains why you're so wrong about bulking then

>so wrong about bulking

Literally explain what part of what I said was wrong?

Why would you bulk st 20%?

>unhealthy
>bad for gains
>fucked up hormone levels
>face looks disgusting
>less muscle more fat on bulk

Also post physique because I'm getting tired of this shit where everyone just acts like they have a noteable physique but they're morbidly obese IRL

I don't understand what you want. Is to just go back and forth?

Just sum up your argument and OP can decide.

Jesus

It sounds like your argument is 'Haes' though.

I know bf would have been more accurate than a seemingly arbitrary number, but considering that OP 1) has already cutted some ten kilos he could likely predict how he would look like after losing another five, keeping up with his current training and eating habits 2) likely doesn't have regular access to accurate bodyfat measurement, I figured a determined weight would be an easier goal to stick to.

On the defense of bulking, doing it slowly would also result in him looking better, assuming minimal fat gain from bulking in a controlled manner.

That's kind of the point, in whichever direction he goes, he will look better, unless he gains too much fat. If he cut first, he would look better during the bulk, and minimize the risk of going beyond reasonable bodyfat levels, for the starting bf would be lower. So by cutting first, not by lot I might add, he would minimize chances of wrecking his appearance.

You remind me of myself OP
Wide hips and skinnyfat as hell
I have been slow cutting/maintaining for two years started from 90kg, never been under 85, currently 93 over the span of 2.5 years
I've been on a surplus only for the last 5 months and lifts have started to go up again.

I think I'm going to finish this madcow cycle then cut again to 85-87, does this sound reasonable?

>If he cut first, he would look better during the bulk, and minimize the risk of going beyond reasonable bodyfat levels, for the starting bf would be lower. So by cutting first, not by lot I might add, he would minimize chances of wrecking his appearance.

So that's really key.

Problem is, when you bulk at the same slow controlled surplus at 20% bf, you gain far more fat and less muscle than you would at the same surplus and 9-10%.

That's the problem. That's why none of those guys can post their physiques- they bulk when they are too fat and just put on mostly fat, then they have a shitload of fat on their bodies. Now what? You have to either cut for a year or suicide cut and lose whatever little muscle you put on.

That's the biggest problem with bulking when you're fat.

Even if OP doesn't care about how he looks, his jawline, his physique, the problem is that he is hindering his long term deficiet by bulking now.

And he will gain a lot of fat even at a small deficiet purely because he is not lean.

Everything I am saying is in the sticky. Everything I am saying every tripfag parrots nonstop.

Yet people don't get it. How?

Anyways, he won't look better bulking, he'll look worse.

His face will get puffy, his hips will get wider.

He's already there (no offense- ps OP- cutting will totally transform your physique and face) so anything that pushes him further in that direction is a travesty.

>does this sound reasonable

You've been lifting for two years and never been lean. As a result you've never been able to add much muscle on the bulk, just fat.

This is why you DONT BULK UNTIL YOu ARE LEAN

Why not just get lean and cut to single digit? Why not?

After two years of training don't you want to actually look decent?

If you get lean then you can actually put on muscle during the bulk.

I don't understand why your goal is a weight when it's totally irrelevant.

Get lean

What gave you the best results developing the back/shoulders?

cool scars, u die?

Pretty much all I do is
ohp, lateral raises and rear flies for shoulders
dl, pendlay rows, pullups/pulldowns for the back
Also my delts are shit
Lifts are finally getting to 1/2/3/4 maybe even a bit more at the end of this couple of months

Car crash, died just briefly

>You've been lifting for two years and never been lean. As a result you've never been able to add much muscle on the bulk, just fat.
>This is why you DONT BULK UNTIL YOu ARE LEAN
From what I understand and what i could experience it's easier to lose fat than to build muscle. This is why I never considered a cut till I got some baseline strenght
I have to add that I'm not necessarily looking for the quickest way, it's something that I enjoy doing so if results are slow I don't mind that much

The reason you don't bulk at high bodyfat percentages is because the quality of your gains will be low - mostly fat, very little muscle. This is because, as you get fatter, your testosterone binds to the fat so you become more female essentially. Cut down to about 10%, bulk up to 15%, cut down to 10%, repeat.

>never considered a cut until I got some baseline strength

And look where it got you. Two years training and not at 1/2/3/4, and not looking at all decent either

>not in a rush

Ok but you know you will die some day right? If you keep this up you will be skinnyfat your entire life

Ding ding ding

Sounds good in theory but the difference between 9 and 10% is so minimal you probably wont gain any muscle going up 1%.

Well I do have love handles and wouldnt mind sucking off a qt trap so maybe this has some merit.

Why would I gain less muscle bulking for 1 month and cutting for 1 month 12 times over two years than bulking 1 year and then cutting for 1 year?

If there's a reason, please tell me, I want to make good progress.