What would russia look like if the good guys won?

What would russia look like if the good guys won?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Russia)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921–22
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_communism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hryhoriy_Hrynko
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932–33
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1946–47
youtube.com/watch?v=6hvhzRz0DjE&t=2861s
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Gone.

Sole hyperpower of the world. Russia may never know what it lost.

>What would russia look like if the good guys won?
Exactly like it does today only with a Czar.

They did win?

Bait harder

Honestly, Russia was too far gone by that point. The Bolsheviks needed to be stopped in 1917. By 1919, they were too entrenched to be easily removed. They controlled all the industrial areas, and perhaps more importantly, they controlled the Tsar's gold reserves, and his enormous stockpile of machine guns. The White Movement had no realistic chance of winning under those conditions.

Im not baiting?

fuck off leftypol

>tfw no alternate timeline where the allies and axis set up a truce to go and stop communism together

Objectively speaking the good guys won

>kill 40 million of your own people
>destroy your own religious institutions
>remove rights to free speech
>remove right to practice religion for two decades at all
>remove home ownership and land ownership
>remove the means of production from individuals and give them to government authorities
>remove all private property and entrepreneurship at the root
>constant food shortages due to the above
>no free speech or free expression
>being in a union doesn't matter because the union is the same as the company and backed by the government

They'd be in a lot more debt.

In all seriousness there was White Terror in Russia too. I don't think there were any good guys left once Kerensky was overthrown and the SRs and the Kadets were purged.

Read up on Admiral Kolchak pls.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Russia)

I mean, 40 million is a lie. Even the writers of the black book of communism (where this figure comes from) admitted that they always chose the highest possible estimates. Not to mention, all the deaths in the Rusdian civil war, the sunsequent famines and even nazis killed by the soviets are included in this number.

Tldr they literally did nothing wrong

>Read up on Admiral Kolchak pls.
There's not one single shred surface material of this period in this place that I haven' tried to learn about. They had a duty to kill every communist traitor and they came up short. Communists are inherently never victims, as they will use whatever resource to defile human dignity politically and socially. Their doctrine demands a reduction of human value that is intolerable to any free and dignified person. In a way, communist purges were a form of justice against their own.

>All the deaths in the civil war

Why wouldn't you include this? The Bolsheviks started the war. It makes absolute sense to assign the resulting deaths to them.

>the sunsequent famines

Again, why wouldn't this be included? The famines happened because the Bolsheviks utterly wrecked Russia's entire economic structure, and beyond that the Bolsheviks made it worse by demanding ridiculous quotas of grain production from peasants who could barely feed themselves.

>even nazis killed by the soviets are included in this number.

That's a little fishy, but I'd want to see proof of that before taking it seriously.

>burning peasant villages
>sending people to gulags
>mass killing of children
>death marches
>torture and floggings of civilians
>purge of opposition and dissent
>nigger-tier military coups and internal power struggles
Nope, they were as bad as the commies.
Russia's last chance at a forward-thinking, modern, democratic, capitalist-oriented, developed country path died with the Kadets and the SRs.

But it's hard to convince the edgelords and radicals of both sides of the spectrum that post here.

>where this figure comes from

I like how you set that up as if only one source was claiming this. The high figure, reported by more than that source, claims as much as 60 million and at lowest 40 million. Not through purges alone mind you.

>Soviet invasion of Baltic and Poland ~1920= 300k
>Soviet famine of 1921-22= 5-7 million at least, some even pro-soviet sources suspect higher given the years prior and after
>Holodomor= 4-9 million
>Winter war the USSR started=+300k
>Yagoda, Beria, & Yezhov's purges account from anywhere between 20 to 30 million. Difficult to estimate because of the nature of Yagoda's purges. Yezhov was the least prolific of the mass murderers.
>Soviet glorious revolution= 7-12 million

>Capitlism has perptrated far worse attrocities from the Bengal famine to the Columbian Exhange and Trans atlantic slavery and the Congo Free State, capitalist profit motives and imperialism have led to far more deaths, that doesnt include those who starve yearly under the global capitalist system.

>Opiate of the Masses

>Free speech is a facist ideal, hate speech is violence action, not all violence is physical, we seek to remove free speech in order to stop violence

>Opiate of the Masses

>Private Property is a bourgeoise concept meant to ensalve the masses

>Dictatorship of the Proleteriat

>Again, not a bad thing

>Lies, the kulaks hoarded their grain and Stalin cant control the clouds, not his falt a drought happened, collectivization saved lived

>Violence

>Wrong

>forward-thinking, modern
Oh, it's retarded.

Nice argument.

>russian empire
>Free speech
>free expression
kek

>degenerates who support monarchy
>good guys
fuck off
t. Russian

Repeating opiate of the masses doesn't mean you have a right to suppression peaceful action that hurt no one. They sent people to Gulag's and exile for holding religious services. If you don't believe in God, that's essentially murdering people and sending them to prison for hosting a book club.

The funny thing is, by telling everyone they get power through government, they become subordinate to government. Also, Stalin declared war on the kulaks when they tried to improve the agricultural situation. They had a massive famine that killed 5-7 million people a decade before and you blame drought? Russia had never suffered famines that bad, and the Soviets managed to create that outcome twice. Russia used to have a form of collectivism too, and it still wasn't as inefficient.

Yes. In the Russian empire, journalists, artists, media personalities, radio, etc didn't work directly for the government and risk imprisonment via Gulag for misrepresenting the party line.

Purging opposition is the only way to save the country. There's nothing wrong with them since they had legitimacy and their enemies were anti-everything materially and spiritually.

>hates Russian traditional history
>enjoys the ones who destroyed Russian culture,religion, and economy
>has the nerve to call himself Russian

KYS

Bolsheviks were the closest thing to good guys in this horrible conflict, but that's not saying much.

No, they definitely weren't.

>Yagoda, Beria, & Yezhov's purges account from anywhere between 20 to 30 million. Difficult to estimate because of the nature of Yagoda's purges. Yezhov was the least prolific of the mass murderers.
kek what the fuck are you talking about
The other figures are pretty solid (though I'm not entirely sure what you mean by soviet glorious revolution) but that purge figure is completely blown out of proportion.

Explain, because it looks like they destroyed all human rights and rammed the economy into the shitter, perma fucking the Russian economy until it disintegrated. Which it caused with it's "planting roots" campaign of balkanization.

>destroyed Russian culture
they didn't
>religion
opiate of the masses
>economy
they didn't

now stop trying to pretend that you know history of my country better than I do, am*rican pig

>implying the purges never happened

Wew. Can you find a source that says the civil war didn't kill millions? I've seen between 7-14 but I couldn't imagine it would go over 10. 12 million seems to be the usual high estimate given.

Russian Empire didn't have human rights
rest of the post is solid tho

>Purging opposition is the only way to save the country. There's nothing wrong with them since they had legitimacy and their enemies were anti-everything materially and spiritually
Except they also purged democratic (pro-capitalist) opposition, and civilians, and their children, to the tune of 300,000 people.

Were the Reds worse? Certainly.
But that doesn't make the Whites "good guys" by any stretch of the imagination.

They were a disjointed mess of sociopathic militarymen, religions fanatics and disgruntled noblemen with delusions of grandeur. The fact that they were constantly involved in power struggles amongst themselves and could not agree on a single, unified vision for Russia is one of the major reasons they lost.

That, and the fact that they were spread out around the country rather than united in the railroad heartland of Russia like the Bolscheviks.

The purges happened but they didn't kill 20-30 million. 5-10 is more accurate (assuming that purges included gulag, forced pop transfers etc,). Also ah the civil war is what you meant by glorious revolution, I wasn't familiar with that as being terminology for it (native english speaker so "glorious revolution" makes me think of 17th century england)

Yeah, that civil war sure did wonders for Russia's economy, basically resetting all the industrialization that had occurred over the previous 20 years back to 0.

>opiate of the masses
That's not an argument. That tells us more about you than religion. It's a lot less edgy and deep than you think it is. Religion is a core component of culture, and the soviets replicated religion by:
>authoring the 1974 Ethical Code for the Builder's of Communism(the twelve commandments for communists)
>interring their dead leaders, treating them as messiahs and creating myths about them
>codifying it's the communist manifesto and Soviet "scholarship" as canon equivalent to Hadith's and Bibles.
>anyone not politically correct becomes a socio-political exile, for being a neo-heretic

I suppose they needed a constitution. Thanks though mate

>Except they also purged democratic (pro-capitalist) opposition, and civilians, and their children, to the tune of 300,000 people.

Social democrats. Communists. Why would you think that ALL 300k of those people were democratic liberals who happened to share your beliefs when the two dominant parties were loyalist imperialists and communists? Especially given their friction with communists prior to the civil war. It doesn't make sense you think they were killing your guys when your team was the minority faction.

>5-10 is more accurate
Based on what?! I've never in all my life ever seen that number below 15 million as a credible number that gained substance from a group of people. I've seen authors attempting to make that argument by insisting the evidence couldn't be used due to various excuses, but given the evidence that's not reasonable. This includes exiles to areas like Siberia, which was the primary method of subversion and if necessary execution given that it used little effort and hard power, first proposed by Nachaev iirc. On that note, barracks communism is real communism.

this

>he unironically thinks life as a literal uneducated serf under the literal murdering tyrant despot is somehow better than what life would be under the initial ideals of what Lenin's revolution called for

how brainwashed do you honestly have to be? compare the two for a second in a historical context and maybe you'd understand why the communist revolution actually managed to take over russia.

>maybe you'd understand why the communist revolution actually managed to take over russia.

Seizing urban areas and attacking initiating revolution during a world war. How can you call the Tsar on the order of Lenin or Stalin? They killed substantially more people and created built in mechanics to prevent people from exercising freedom and economic growth. Communism was literally smuggled into Russia as a weapon.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921–22

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_communism

>A black market emerged in Russia, despite the threat of martial law against profiteering. The rouble collapsed and barter increasingly replaced money as a medium of exchange[9] and, by 1921, heavy industry output had fallen to 20% of 1913 levels. 90% of wages were paid with goods rather than money. 70% of locomotives were in need of repair, and food requisitioning, combined with the effects of seven years of war and a severe drought, contributed to a famine that caused between 3 and 10 million deaths.[10] Coal production decreased from 27.5 million tons (1913) to 7 million tons (1920), while overall factory production also declined from 10,000 million roubles to 1,000 million roubles. According to the noted historian David Christian, the grain harvest was also slashed from 80.1 million tons (1913) to 46.5 million tons (1920).

You realize serfdom was abolished in Russia several decades before this happened, right?

>Social democrats.
Nothing wrong with social democrats.
I'm centre-right but I'd rather associate with some pinko that respects democracy and my right of free speech, over some fascist that wants to impose his ideas over mine by force. That's why I mentioned the Kadets AND the SRs, which at least were commited to democracy.

Of course I know 2018 morality is not like 1917 morality so let's move on.

>Communists.
Yeah well fuck those.

>Why would you think that ALL 300k of those people were democratic liberals
I don't.

>the two dominant parties were loyalist imperialists and communists?
The dominant party in terms of popularity were the SRs, not the Bolsheviks and not the Monarchists.

>It doesn't make sense you think they were killing your guys when your team was the minority faction.
There's no "my guys" here. I'm trying to give you a balanced view of the situation. The Whites BURNED ENTIRE VILLAGES and everybody that lived in them. It didn't matter if they were SRs, apolitical, communist, or whatever. When the time for reprisal came they didn't give a fuck. That's why it was called a TERROR, the idea was to institute punishment on the population so brutal, arbitrary and terrible that everyone would fall in line.

Were the Whites better than the Reds?
Knowing what the Reds did, I'd say yes, marginally.

But that doesn't make them "good guys", to pretend so is asinine. Even by 1917 standards of morality it was butchery on a massive scale.

>Nothing wrong with social democrats.
To be clear, they were killing communists and those who enable communism. Veeky Forums debating aside, there's no real reason why they only killed 300k. It's a great failing.

>Of course I know 2018 morality is not like 1917 morality so let's move on.

MFW

>I'm trying to give you a balanced view of the situation

The situation wasn't balanced.

>The Whites BURNED ENTIRE VILLAGES and everybody that lived in them.

If those villages had communists in them, they should have been burned. They did not burn enough.

>That's why it was called a TERROR

And here is your biggest fucking problem. You think that didn't have anything to do with those sympathetic to communists.Look at the Kornilov Affair. It was communists retroactively trying to push blame for their bloody civil war onto the whites. Same thing here. I bet you're one of those people that thinks Ayn Rand had a coherent philosophy just because it get's labeled "objectivism" and marketed as a philosophy.

>Were the Whites better than the Reds?
>Knowing what the Reds did, I'd say yes, marginally.

I'd neck you myself.

>But that doesn't make them "good guys"

They were the last true Russians. They had a unified culture, a unifying religion, freedom to own property and they were making tremendous economic progress. Not just the 3-4% GDP growth rates, but the literacy uptake, and closing the 30 year gap of infrastructure with the west. It took the commies 50 years to do that and they wrecked every material and spiritual factor belonging to Russia.

But the good guys won you petty bourgeois piece of shit

>But that doesn't make them "good guys"
God this grinds my fucking gears. You tell me how they were the bad guys, because as far as I'm concerned you don't like them because they killed commies, as they should.

You're reading wrong authors then. 15 million is the highest serious estimate of death toll during the Stalinist regime. All based on Soviet documents released after the fall of the SU. The purges killed some 1.5 million people, Gulags 2 million, famine (32-33) - 7 million. All other actions killed far less people than that. Even 15 million seems to be an exaggerated number.

>reduction of human value
in capitalist Russia human value meant shit if you werent a rich jew, g*rman, or dvoryan cunt. The bolsheviks removed dvoryan parasites from power.

No cold war

>pretending the communists weren't jewish majority in power

So freedom and prosperity versus what exactly? What did communism give them that they weren't already on track for?

>whites
>good guys
They were retarded imperialists. After the war they would try to reclaim all their lost territories, exactly like the bolsheviks.
Hell, I bet they would start their own little holocaust.

On the other hand it's possible that the bolsheviks saved Russia from falling apart.

eternally bankrupted due to being forced to repay loans to French Jews. unable to retake the caucasus and ukraine. Be a place for western capitalist labor outsourcing where the Russian workers have working conditions worse than victorian britain. Lacking any source of profit due to all industry being privatized by the west.

>tsar is forced to abdicate by a mob of tens of thousands of workers and soldiers who all want nothing but a swift end of the war
>new goverment decides to stay in the entente
What were they thinking?

>Ability to be an officer without being bourgeois or aristocrat
>free housing and education
> workers given a priority of food shipments instead of starving
>reduced infant mortality
>destruction of mudslime influence in central asia
>No loan sharks

BTW most jews in Russia emigrated to the US because they were bourgeois. Trotsky and Zinoviev were an exception. Your average Russian jew was like Ayn Rand.

>You're reading the overwhelming majority of authors then.

Ftfy.

Yagoda may have killed up to 12 million on his own. Under his own direction. One man accounts for your entire figure. Add in Yezhov's two million and we're leaving out all the others namely Beria.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hryhoriy_Hrynko
>purged during the trial of the 21
>"he was purged in 1922 for "nationalist deviation"

In case anyone still thinks communism isn't antagonistic to national culture.

Source? And I want serious statistics sourse based on real evidence, not random estimates from 1960s (Conquest).

>To be clear, they were killing communists and those who enable communism.
You are so innocent, it's almost cute.

No, we know they killed more than just communists. Entire villages were razed. Peasants had their harvest stolen. Women were raped en masse. Which is the logical conclusion of having armies rampaging through the countryside with no oversight and a no-holds-barred official policy.

>In the small town of Fastov alone, Denikin's Volunteer Army murdered over 1,500 Jews, mostly the elderly, women, and children. An estimated 100,000 to 150,000 Jews in Ukraine and southern Russia were killed in pogroms perpetrated by Denikin's forces as well as Petlyura's nationalist-separatists.

>In the Don Province, the Soviet government was displaced by a regime headed by Pyotr Krasnov formed in April 1918. According to Walter Laqueur, more than 45,000 people were shot or hanged by Krasnov's White Cossack regime, which lasted until the Red Army conquered the region following their victory at Tsaritsyn.

>Kolchak issued orders to raze to the ground whole villages. In a few Siberian provinces, 20,000 farms were destroyed and over 10,000 peasant houses burned down.

>In the Urals, Siberia, and the Far East, extraordinary cruelty was practiced by several Cossack warlords: B. Annenkov, A. Dutov, G. Semyonov, and J. Kalmykov. During the trial against Annenkov, there was testimony about the robbing peasants and atrocities under the slogan: “We have no restrictions! God is with us and Ataman Annenkov: slash right and left!”.
>Veeky Forums debating aside, there's no real reason why they only killed 300k. It's a great failing.
I get it. You are an edgelord.

>I bet you're one of those people that thinks Ayn Rand had a coherent philosophy
?
Where's this coming from?
Ayn Rand was a terrible philosopher.
Nice strawman. You are losing it buddy.

>they were making tremendous economic progress.
Tsarist Russia =/= White Russians

>>Ability to be an officer without being bourgeois or aristocrat

Look at the majority of Soviet officers. They passed over skilled candidates because they wanted poor candidates from peasant/working class backgrounds. This shows especially in Zhukov, Konev, et alia. Judging by their performance in every war before Afghanistan(especially the Winter war and their immediate wars in the Baltic and Poland) I'd say they suffered horribly for their unwarranted bias.

>>free housing and education

They did have 4 year universities education, which meant nothing before the cold war. After the civil war education facilities and support were lacking and weren't comparable with the west until the cold war. The communist civil war actually ended up causing the first brain drain in Russia, since the more educated people were either persecuted, exiled, or migrated earlier on. Literacy rates in the late imperial period, along with mortality rates across the board, were improving. They would've actually improved faster if it weren't for communists killing tens of millions of people through famine and war and completed the infrastructure plan on time(they were two decades behind purely due to communist inefficiency).

>> workers given a priority of food shipments instead of starving

Food is not the argument you want to make regarding communism.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921–22

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932–33

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1946–47

The worst famines Russia ever had was due to the communists. They had to import from the US during the Cold war. Russia had already tried to use collectives before and they went with Stolypin's reforms to boost productivity. They ditched the obshchina and tried to use individual empowerment. The communists reverted back into collectivism and removed he profit motivation. Everything they could've done to destroy agriculture, they did.

>What were they thinking?

They were thinking that they were on the winning side of the war, and they were right. In 1917, the Entente had a clear upper-hand, and Germany was starting the waver. Russia could have potentially gained a lot of territory in Eastern Europe and Middle-East if it had stayed in the way to the end. Not to mention, Russia staying in the war would have shortened the war. Germany would have been forced to throw in the towel sooner than they did in real-life. But if none of that sounds convincing, just take a look at the terms that Germany ended up demanding from Russia during the Brest-Litovsk. The Germans were demanding enormous territorial concessions from Russia AND huge reparations on top of that, just for allowing Russia the option of exiting the war.

They killed indiscriminately, retard. Not just communists.

Having to choose between one of these two groups is one thing. (I'd go with the Whites if forced into a choice) but actively considering them "good guys" means you are either an edgelord or clueless about the history.

They even went to China to figure out how they created an economic miracle and were disturbed to find that the Chinese were using private incentives. Sauce:

youtube.com/watch?v=6hvhzRz0DjE&t=2861s

>BTW most jews in Russia emigrated to the US because they were bourgeois. Trotsky and Zinoviev were an exception. Your average Russian jew was like Ayn Rand.

Not even close to accurate. All but three of the original commissars were jewish. Putin said 80-85% of the early USSR was ruled by jews. Israeltimes basked in that fact, confirming it themselves.

A lot I have to reply to. There's really no point. I can point to direct evidence against the assertions made here, as has been done countless times before me by better posters,good authors,and great historians but it won't matter. Veeky Forums isn't a place for admitting incorrectness, there's really no point wasting more time trying to fire back at the 3 or so people responding constantly with their own ideological biases. You have what you need. Pull your heads out of your asses.

I'm not ideologically biased. I'm not supporting the communists, but 12 million killed by Yagoda is a made up number. Snyder disregards it, other Gulag experts also disregard it. We have documents, we know that the highest mortality rate in Gulags and Soviet prison before the war was some 6-8% (with 1.2 million prisoners). It's literally impossible for 12 million people to die in Gulags.

>1921
Caused by devastation from the civil war caused by capitalist imperialist agression and bourgeois traitors , lack of anyone to tend the lands with so many dead from WW1 capitalist imperialist destruction and bourgeois traitors

>1933
Caused by natural drought, lack of agricultural technology, and kulak scum destroying crops. Even then cities with workers were ensured a stable food supply as much as possible

>1946
caused by devastation after WW2

Since when is putin a historian? Also there are many sources which show that the vast majority of Soviet communists were Russian, Ukrainian, Caucasian, and Latvian. But go listen to 1488aryanwarrior.blogspot.com or some rich Russian priest who has 8 mercedeses.

Tukhachevsky was an aristocrat and he fucked up the war with Poland.

the purges were several hundred thousand at most, holy fuck. the purges were about PARTY MEMBERS and perceived dissidents and fifth columnists, not your average citizen. How fucking ignorant are you?

> What would russia look like if the good guys won?


The difference would probably be just marginally smaller than between North and South Korea.

>vast majority of Soviet communists were Russian, Ukrainian, Caucasian, and Latvian

>unironically being a commie

>>>/reddit/

Oh look, it's that guy again. Two years later, I'm still gonna ask about what Natanson were doing in 1881.

But they won.

>I don't think there were any good guys left once Kerensky was overthrown

Kerensky was a retard that claimed "Februrary revolution was bloodless" while the goons were chasing and repressing both former Ohranka and Gendarmes, effectively culling out any resemblence of the police, at least in Petrograd. That not to say that his boyfriend Savinkov was a terrorist all right.

Claiming that he is a good guy is retarded.

>The Bolsheviks started the war.

Nope, "White" faggots started it because they wanted to hold on to their privileges. Of course, mostly sending bydlo cannon fodder to fight their fights.

>Yes. In the Russian empire, journalists, artists, media personalities, radio, etc didn't work directly for the government and risk imprisonment via Gulag for misrepresenting the party line.


Pushkin would like to talk to you. As every other writer who wrote something that triggered the Tzar and was sent away.

>KYS

No you.

>hates Russian traditional history

Or he is just not the "blue-blood" Russians with German roots. You know, maybe he is a descendant of russian peasants.

>enjoys the ones who destroyed Russian culture,religion, and economy

If somebody comes right now and hangs all the (((oligarchs))) from the noose in Russia, you also will bark about killing off "culture, religion and economy"?

>has the nerve to call himself Russian

At least he is not a cuck like you, who will offer his own daughter to pomeschik because "muh pops, muh tzar, muh culture".
Go and lick Soros' ass, amerishart.

> basically resetting all the industrialization that had occurred over the previous 20 years back to 0.

Not much to reset, matey.

>Religion is a core component of culture

Religion that tells you to suck up and tolerate retard at the top because he is "god-chosen" is a religion of cucks and every normal man's duty is to remove said religion. Together with its proponents.

De jure, not de facto.

>If those villages had communists in them, they should have been burned. They did not burn enough.

>REEEEE WHY COMMIES ARE KILLING US? FOR WHAAAAT?

Yes, commies didn't eviscerate enough of your hypocritical, holier-than-thou, shit-eating kind, shamefully.

> ideological biases

Ha кoнюшню, хoлoп. 30 poзoг.

>Wah wah retard at the top!

Instead, you got retards at the top, in the middle and at the bottom, and the retards at the bottom want to impress the retards in the middle by fucking you with a broken bottle - but remember that the people at the top love you, you matter, you're important, you! You! You!
Fucking moron, I hope you get what you are after so that it can torture you until you die alone in abject misery.

It says 40% were jews, not 80-85%.

...they close to collapsing in 1919. Denikins plan to split forces was the mistake.

>monarchist russia
>soyboy in charge of controlling huge empire
>more people were smashing p*lish riots than participating in war with japs
>only like 10% of people can read
>failed to industrialize
vs
>communist russia
>ensured next generation is 100% literate
>won space race
>became nuclear superpower
>controlled eastern europe
good guys have won, user

The resulting famines werent their fault, thats why. It was the result of ww1 leading to the russian state becoming bankrupt and rural areas becoming ghost towns after industrialization of Russia starting in the early 1900s, peasants were leaving their villages in droves for better pay in the cities.

Also, Im not gonna spoon feed you sources, if you really want proof that the black book of communism is bullshit, there is plenty of sources on the internet proving that. The nazi casualties being included is also easy to find.

>The resulting famines werent their fault, thats why.

Wrong. If the Bolsheviks hadn't completely destroyed the Russian economy by plunging the country into a completely unnecessary civil war, these famines would not have occurred.

>Also, Im not gonna spoon feed you sources

You have NO credibility. You're a tankie apologist. You worship Lenin and Stalin, the greatest mass murderers of the 20th century. Filth like you deserves no respect or consideration.

Top be fair, in 1918 the Bolsheviks were the sane choice. No one had a crystal ball to tell what will happen next. At that time however the Reds promised land and peace.

The Whites on the other hand had literally zero program aside from nebolous making Russia great again. Various groups did things on their own accord and that was nothing pleasant - massacres of minorities and the return of noblemen.

>The Whites on the other hand had literally zero program aside from nebolous making Russia great again.

This is wrong. The Whites were pretty clear about wanting to restore the Constituent Assembly.

>in 1918 the Bolsheviks were the sane choice. No one had a crystal ball to tell what will happen next.

Yeah, right.

>Tigers but with actually functioning supply lines and Shermans as flankers
>Spitfire+Bf 109+P-51 combo from the west
>Corsair+Zero combo from the east
>Japanese charge with American support
>Combined Pacific US-Japan carrier force


stop my penis can only get so erect

>Yezhov was the least prolific of the mass murderers.

Wtf, it's literally the opposite. Yagoda killed far less than Yezhov, and even Beria killed less. The purge is called the Yezhovchina in Russia for a reason.

Anyway the great purge killed about a million people. No idea why you fags always inflate the numbers so bad.

>Kerensky
>good guy
lol

>Czechoslovak victims of Bolsheviks
Are you retarded? Why do you think standing guys wear Czechoslovak ribbons on hats?

>AAAAA FUGGEN NAZI CRMMUNISTS

>Exactly like it does today only with a Czar.
It's unclear if a white victory would have even meant a restoration of the monarchy

Good thing the monarchy was already abolished half a year before the bolsheviks took power then

You aren’t?

>Columbian exchange
>capitalism
>literally happened before capitalism even existed as a concept
You're the kind of person who also says that Jesus was a socialist, aren't you?

A Russian would be walking the Moon in 1949.

>they controlled the Tsar's gold reserves
Didn't whites captured those?

Even if the whites won, monarchy was impossible at that point in Russian history. Neither Kolchak's or Denikin's (and later on Wrangel's) camps supported monarchism. From what I recall, Ungern-Sternberg was pretty much the only prominent white leader who wanted to keep monarchy. He wasn't even that important, as he was just fucking around under Seymonov near Lake Baikal, far away from the main conflicts.

>It's unclear if a white victory would have even meant a restoration of the monarchy

It's very clear that the Whites had no intention of reinstating the monarchy. The idea that the Whites were a monarchist group is literally communist propaganda.