/NBB/ Natty Bodybuilding General

>i use calorie count for my diet
>i tried myfitness pal after starting calorie count because i wanted to see if it was better
>its much more complicated, didnt even bother trying to figure it out
that user isnt alone, i saw the "pay for premium" part of mfp and noped my way out of the app

I also have an image are you going to toss your training methodology in the trash now

>a website

I have a website too.

bodybuilding.com/fun/topicoftheweek8.htm

The fact that PLs that care about strength train in low low rep ranges while BBs stick to 8-12 overwhelmingly seems to suggest that... if you want to get strong, lower rep ranges, and higher rep ranges to get larger.

This seems logical to me.

you are a fucking mongoloid

Certain foods, you enter, like ground beef, and the only fucking way to enter it is '1 package - Aldis" or "1 lb"

What if I want to enter 5.9 ounces because that's what I ate?

Shit is awful.

>giving advice

They 100% know who is giving them advice

>I will trip mostly so people know that I *do not* have either of those things
>I will trip mostly so people know that I *do not* have either of those things

Also having a good physique is hardly, hardly relevant in terms of having an opinion on if MFP or chronometer is better, that's sort of, an opinion,

>insult
>argument
pick one

he literally ignored the argument to go with his stupid broscience hearsay related to entirely enhanced bodybuilding

if you (or he) want to argue, go read the image, see that there are actual studies done to back up the image, then read the article on the website and understand that you're also a fucking mongoloid

Got this routine from another user's post. My goal is strength+a bit of size. user was working AxBxCDx as shown.

Is there any reason why I couldn't do ABxCDxx? Fits better with my schedule.

Any changes to said routine that you guys would recommend?

You two are retarded and don't know how to use a simple app

Wait, do you think you're using a tripcode?

>that's what Veeky Forums is for

No. It's for people to tell obese people that want to "look good on the beach" to "follow this routine made by a football coach to get people STRONGER for a SPORT, drink a GALLON of MILK a day, and AVOID CARDIO".

The prototypical user that actually takes his advice from the board instead of just taking advice from other sources and shitposting here will

1. Start at 30% bf.

2. Six month SS + Six month +2000 calorie a day bulk (Eat big get big).

3. Never count a calorie (for nerds)

4. Avoid cardio (Wouldn't want to murder those gains + why care about cardiovascular health)

At the end of this process they will emerge on t he beach looking like they got beached and be unable to walk up a flight of a flight of stairs

why you do this d00d

Ignore this imposter, I don't know who he is. I'm the real OP, I don't even know what's going on with that name

please stop, I'm the real OP

faggots pls im the real alex here

Well this general has potential. One good thing Strengtheory did was amalgamate natural bbing calculators to get a decent range of estimation for your potential. For instance me being 5'9 with my wrist and ankle circumferences I can be about 180 lb at 10% or 165 at 5% completely shredded stage ready.

Nice use of photoshop faggot, stop trying to derail my thread

Stop

You can get strong as long as you ramp up the weight every workout.
You can get mass as long as you have the volume.

That is it.
That is all.

Also, 8-12 reps has been recently stated to be optimal for new trainers or completely untrained individuals.
And it's been shown that simple calisthenics and stretching are superior for every single person at every stage of life in ever single society that has at any point concerned itself with physical fitness.

Your rebuttal?

>5% bf
>natty

'No'

how do i get a thicc waist without looking like a fatfuck

I'm not going to argue with you if you're just gonna ignore the studies and argue around them

when controlled for volume, there is no difference in hypertrophy between sets of 5 reps or sets of 8-12 BUT sets of 5 are better for strength. 8-12 is an old school broscience meme.

Unilateral upper body movements are great at building obliques

Circus db press, one arm farmers walk, turkish get ups

WELL WHAT IS IT YOU FUCKS DO I GO 8-12 OR SHOULD I GO 5x5??

I want to get bigger but I don't want to be jacked and not be able to lift as much as I like like I can

OP your thread is a fucking trainwreck, just quit while you're ahead

It's POSSIBLE to get to 5% bodyfat as a natural.
But by god, they will HATE themselves and the entire goddamned world while they take up the broken glass bottle covered road to get there.

Those guys will have lower test levels then fucking castrates and look horribly deflated and lose a good amount of muscle mass in the process.

I honestly have no idea why natural men have to follow the rules of the BBer when it comes to looking good as a bodybuilder.

Going below 11% should be seen as something that naturals should not do.

Can I ask you guys something.
Do you think all natural men should be advised against going below 10-12% bodyfat and sort of push beach body fat levels as the norm?

Work up to a daily technical max of 1-3 reps in primary movements to drive strength and then do backoff sets anywhere from 5-20 reps to drive size

8% is actually the lowest you can go before your hormones really crash. I think 8-12 is optimal for male function, 15 is honestly fat let's be real

Got it, thanks

1-3 is actually better for strength.
And 8-12 when controlled for weight will actually get you comparable strength gains, but because of the volume will also get you more muscle mass.
And it's been shown that bodybuilding type workouts are optimal for complete beginners and beginner powerlifting stuff is quite litterally for people who have some low amount of physical fitness already.

Powerlifter here, but I also want to develop a certain level of aesthetics. I bench press four times a week and have started to add in a 3-4 sets of 10-15 curls after most sessions, but my arms still seem small, especially my biceps. Any tips?

Hey, we're talking about rep ranges, and no one is whining about how they don't have girlfriends.

5x5 for sure

>And 8-12 when controlled for weight
you have no fucking clue what "controlled for" means

I'm out

Are you getting a pump when you curl? If not then your form is bad. Don't neglect the contribution of the brachioradialis in arm size.

>posts a paint scribble
>Look I have a picture too XD
>bb.com
>See my website is better than urs xd

Kill yourself bro.

Alex should I bulk or cut. 160lbs 5'7

Cut you are looking soft. But some decent size

>newfag who takes memes seriously is gonna give people ""advice""

Kek

I get a pump, yeah. I do my sets super strict then sometimes go for a burnout with cheat reps and lighter weight. I usually do a mix of hammer curls and pronated to supinated grip

this desu

from what people say, their dick stops working and they get depressed at contest bf % of 7.5%, some even at 8% have this problems.

triceps are the biggest muscle in your arms so work your triceps too

work your forearms or they'll be disproportionately small

mast's wrist roller really helped my forearms go from toothpicks to slightly 1% larger toothpick's and I highly recomend

IMO V taper is the most important thing to looking good so maybe do some pull ups too

Lot of seals and special ops guys sit around 12-15% because it's apparently optimal for male health and needed for when they need extra energy to keep them alive.

Anyway, the amount of effort natural, like really really natural guys, go through to maintain a sub double digit bodyfat is ridiculous and basically kills their libido and normal test production.

I think we should push 10-13% bodyfat as being a male fitness ideal.

reee no bully me dude

probably bulk you're looking really natty and dyel desu you could use the size

youll be BIG like me one day dont worry

Jesus christ dude are you 12?
The dude posted several studies that literally PROVE the opposite of what you're saying, and all you do is say "no ur wrong" and continue spewing the bullshit you learned from bb.com like a fucking mantra.

I work my triceps a lot with bench, I do need to get onto some wrist/forearm work. I'll look into wrist rollers. What do you think of farmers walks or wrist curls?

Explain it to me.

Ah well then I have no advice to give lad except for increase frequency to 3-4x/week if you're not there already

You make a good point about resisting stress under dire circumstances. I was thinking of function more of in modern life lol, wearing suits having a sharp jawline slaying puss.

wrist rollers are hands down the best forearm builder, can work both pronators and supinators with it, easy on the joints because you can make it almost all concentric. wrist curls feel awful on the joint to me, farmers great for building strength but not so much size

Just jump on test already with me bby and we can eat Taco Bell together and make gains.

>tries to argue acting like he knows he's some kind of expert on the field
>throws around statements like "it's been shown that x" without backing them up
>gets called the fuck out on his bullshit

>ok lol pls explain 2 me xd

Kys senpai

Did you actually read any of those fucking studies?

people un-ironically bulk at 35% bf and unironically just 'eat as much as you can natty' bulk

look

everyone is saying 'bulk bulk' out of hopes that he comes back with a "progress" pic in 6 months for them to laugh at

very mean spirited

Plus, if you are a typical fat fuck, and someone tells you that you can keep being a fatty, (actually, you can eat MORE than ever before now!) and that is just IDEAL for asthetics, well, they're gonna "lean bulk" (at 40% bf)

fuck that is some disgusting skin

The most you know about the subject comes from a picture that you or someone else constantly posts.
You know up there in the sticky?
That thing with the dinosaur?
Go listen to what Mcdonald actually says about putting on muscle mass.
Go look at what people who aren't getting paid to push strength training or have some kind of ulterior motive says about it.

Actually fucking read about the subject.

My friend says he uses this as a supplement to his protein intake, but I'm admittedly not experienced with anything outside of pre-workout and whey.
There's not a definite answer I can find online about this but I think its supposed to help your body get the most out of your protein by processing more and help with recovery?
I don't know, can anyone weigh in

Great rebuttal bro. Go read up and then come talk to me again.

>start pinning
>as a skeleton
>that hasn't started noob gains yet
>bulk obviosuly on cycle
>my skin literally explodes as I gain weight so rapidly
>next thing I know, I am one giant stretch mark

24/7 free tony the tiger cosplay how could I turn it down?

Are you the guy in CBT that says he's from hawaii?

No I'm not from Hawaii lol. And you'll be fine I started pinning at 113lbs. Not many stretch marks either.

> roiding for this

That's what you're going with.
A tacit admittance of ignorance.

"controlled for" means you're comparing two different things with an identical control value to see whether it changes

how I used it earlier:
>when controlled for volume, there is no difference in hypertrophy between sets of 5 reps or sets of 8-12 BUT sets of 5 are better for strength.

in other words, when you're doing the same volume, 5 reps sets are better for strength than 8-12 and the same for hypertrophy, so 8-12 is FUCKING POINTLESS

you can't just say "8-12 controlled for weight" it makes no fucking sense. and obviously if you're comparing the same weight but one set is done at 8 reps and the other is done at 5 then the 8 reps set will fucking win, you can lift a higher percentage of your 1RM when you do fewer reps

anyway you're a fucking idiot beginner talking about things he doesn't understand just like the rest of Veeky Forums

I thought I'd read the thread just to make fun of Alex but fuck that, Veeky Forums outside fraud is a goddamn cesspool of garbage

>proprietary blend
Generally code for underdosed ingredients, if those ingredients are even present. Particle-sized BCAA sounds pretty meme tier--speed of digestion really isn't that fucking important. EAAs only is a pretty good move though.

I wouldn't buy it but I would throw it in if I got a free tub.

Yea they're not magic I still have a shit diet I eat fast food daily and workout for maybe 30-40 mins a day. I'm in college very busy with work and school I just like steroids and making gains at a faster rate with minimal effort. Show me your body I bet I'm still ahead.

Who here constantly overtrains and knocks hard?

Your base was pathetic and youve used drugs to gain muscle. Good luck with gaining or maintaining mass once you come off with your no doubt pathetic nutrition.

So it is for recovery and better protein synthesis. I walked into a local vitamin shop and the owner was a lifter who let me get it for 15 off to try it

>come off
nice meme

>making gains
think again bud
you're taking steroids for shit gains but you like it
save your money next time you want to pin and just work out natty, you look like it

> steroids
> not magic
> make gains with minimal effort
> make excuses for terrible progress whilst dealing with magic

Yea I won't be coming off ever bud.

>No difference in hypertrophy between 30% 1RM & 80% 1RM.

Is this legit? If so why am I working so hard?

I mean it might make a 5% difference but the other 95 is lifting eating sleeping correctly. They're marked up hugely in shops so letting you get it for 15 off is really just selling it at internet retail price

Show me your current body I couldn't have gone from 113 to 160 fgt.

because doing billions of reps is boring, it's harder to know when you're approaching failure, and because strength is fun

>thought I'd read the thread just to make fun of Alex but fuck that, Veeky Forums outside fraud is a goddamn cesspool of garbage

You see my frustration? I talked about it in fraud but bimbo got triggered. There is very little resources for newbies here, just actual toxic advice.

The only reason I made any fucking progress AT ALL is because of the fucking roid general thread. How sad is that?

Why do you think Natties pollute ur general?

>make fun of Alex

Dude I do it fine just by myself l0l you can't possibly say anything or do anything that makes me look worse than I do with blogposts

///immune///

Yeah don't worry he is just pissed you look better than he does.

Why these people spend their lives comparing themselves to other I will never understand, you could be number two placed at the Olympia and still an insecure wreck with this attitude

I cannot even understand in what universe it effects his life what you pin

Big words coming from some dipshit who likes to throw terms around he doesn't even know.

You got btfo m8, just shut your retard mouth

>show me your current body to prove I couldn't put in the work for my body and I still don't
kekekekeke
I won't tell ya what to do with your money though friend

legit if you're blasting and cruising and look like that your pathetic. let me tell you this, you might think now that blasting and cruising is a great idea, but guess what. peoples priorities change and their goals change, and so will yours. I have so many friends that are above 100kg and 8%bf and blast and cruise and their biggest regret is doing it. Not using drugs itself but blasting and cruising, reason why? your HPTA is FUCKED, well and trully fucked.

Chance of having kids? probably sub 5%.
Come of drugs? guess what? no more fucking boners or sex or sex drive.
"Oi bruh il just pct".not a chance of being back at normal levels of test....EVER.
So guess who now has to shoot test e every week for the rest of their lives just to remain in a state or normality.

and guess what, these are guy who look fucking epic, your going to do it to yourself AND YOU LOOK LIKE SHIT.

If you arent a competitive BBer, blasting and cruising is not for you. Im all for blasting and cruising if youve had children and are using test and these other drugs while or HRT/TRT. But to do it while your in your 20s is rediculous. Especially when your not even close to your natural potential. Your doing so much more harm than good.

Oh well sorry.
I spent my time working out and playing sports rather then jacking off over english books.
So you know.

Anyway, You can gain as much strength by doing 8-12 reps and superior mass.

This has been proven basically everywhere.

Once again. Your rebuttal.

lol 70kg and on drugs, i was 70kg at 16 years old before lifting. thats actually so sad.

No big words here bruh.
Just asking you to put up or shut up.

Here's your (you)

This is the level of stupidity that bullshit bb.com articles peddle

Yo d00d stop

It's not a competition. Someone else pinning to make progress that's not possible for us doesn't diminish what you are doing and have done, or anything

The only thing that anyone could do on gear that's bad is competing in a drug tested league

He's not so it doesn't effect your life. Let go of this totally irrational anger.

Just accept that natty gains are slow and painful or start pinning already

Living your life pissed about what another man does with his money and body is stupid

The idea here wasn't 'let's bitch and whine that people use roids' more 'tLk about how to make gains in size' and avoid falling for meme power lifter routines

Add higher deadlift volume man, that's a quick way to find you limit. Operate under a laod that won't stress you joints so much breh.

>contradicts over a handful of studies proving the opposite
>doesn't post a single reference

Wew lad

I always thought that face you make showing off your jaw gains from mastic gun was literally you puckering your lips and having your mouth open at an angle for muscle representation. Little did I think that's how you actually try to keep your jaw at all times.
Why are you so autistic.
How do you fail so hard at not listening to all the people telling you what you're doing is wrong.
Do you lack that little voice in the back of your head or is it autistic as well.

>mfw 5'8" and 160 before lifting
>mfw natty at that
You're not a manlet too are you?

wong mate sorry,

Most people gain more strength between 3-5 reps as opposed to 8-12.

Theres a difference between strength and hypertrophy training.

Both arnold and Coleman have both said they trained in powerlifting style routines. And theyre probably the 2 most successfuyl Mr O's of all time.

It's missing a column titled "Aesthetics Effect"

Eh just started to blast and cruise because every time I cycled in the past would lose everything post due to my lack in diet slash poor lifting habits. And I'll still have kids one day look at the pros bro

what exactly do you think hypertrophy is

>chronometer

nice site you got there

But I read that sufficiently strenuous exercise can get you roughly the same amount of VO2/max as cardio.

cronometer for the record