KETO

>Any of you fitzens ever tried Keto? Does it work? Or is it just a huge meme.
Both

It's great for producing ketosis but 100% undeniably clinically proven useless for losing weight vs standard calorie deficit

The reason it's meme'd about is because it initially removes a lot of water weight and because it cuts out refined carbs and most unhealthy fats which are the two primary components of 99% of unnecessary calories in western diets.

In short, it's fine but don't teat it as anything other than a suboptimal diet with some "benefits".

Isn't two weeks just enough for to get into ketosis? I'm told you'll feel like crap for that time but it gets better

Maybe but I started in December and by mid December I was going to too many christmas parties to be able to keep doing it while looking like a normie.
Also, those 4kg weren't water weight because I had already gone from 96kg to 84kg for the previous 7 months, and I always keep my piss clear so I know I'm hydrated.

Tried it, lost a ton of weight. Did 5x5 routine and maintained strength. Much recommend

you tell me what online resources helped you?

>online resources

nigga just eat moderate protein, low carb, high fat.

Dont overthink it. Just remove sugar and refined carbs from your life.

Fucks with your mind? Explain.

Takes me like a day to fall back into it, but I combine it with IF for the first 2 days.

Shit water 9 times a day, piss about 12. Then you're back in it.

This calculator is the only thing you need. Follow the macros from there.

keto-calculator.ankerl.com/

>Shit water 9 times a day

What?

Tried it once, lost a shittload of fat. At first I thought it was the Holy Grail, but after trying other high carbs methods I realized every diet is practically the same. The only thing that matters is strict calorie counting.

Also, the keto flu is quite real, and the selection of food that you can eat is so tiny that it'll drive you mad in no time.

When I do the 2 day IF (16/8) it pushes you back into ketosis faster. This makes you purge any water weight that you may have gained if you took a break, if you ate like shit, blah blah.

I took off for Christmas, ate like a garbage can and then, to get back into ketosis, I used IF as a jumping on point. This made my body purge all the water it was storing.

Which brings us back to shitting water 9 times in a day.

I put myself into ketosis 4 months ago, starting weight 265. Weighed in this morning at 168. That's right, four fucking months. 5'10", 50 yrs old. I started lifting when I started ketosis, and have steadily been able to increase weight, and delighted in my (newbie I'm sure) gains. My first three weeks in ketosis I felt crappy, weak, GI distress... then... fucking magic. Energy level significantly increased. I made sure to eat

I do the same thing and take water pills and do cardio during the fast period in the morning.

The best advantage of keto for cutting in my experience is that it reduces your appetite.

With a steady low blood sugar and plenty of fat, you hardly get hungry.

about 60lbs in 5ish months

did eleven weeks

have shifted to a 60-30-10 protein/fat/carb

seemed to help alleviate fatigue. .. didn't lose appreciable fat as far as I can tell

thats an immense amount. nice work

ketofags never look good
that's all anyone ever needs to know about keto

> it cuts out refined carbs and most unhealthy fats
>and most unhealthy fats

Most people that post about keto eat bacon, beef, eggs, and cheese for all their meals. Avocado and nuts are a minor part of the diet from what I've seen.

This my man.

Started at 5"11 250. Went to 160-170 range in about 5 months WITH a dozen cheat days.

The key is low carbs

Then most people are eating way too much saturated fat and claiming it's healthy due to blogscience

if you think sat fat is bad for you you are a fucking idiot who still believes in the 90s low fat craze

If you don't think so, you're a gullible anti-science retard

heart.org/HEARTORG/HealthyLiving/HealthyEating/Nutrition/Frequently-Asked-Questions-About-Saturated-Fats_UCM_463756_Article.jsp#.WHVNv1MrKUk

i've lost 15kg on keto

you can get gains while on keto, you guys are just too dumb to do your homework. check out leddits ketogains and check out superstarch

things i'm noticing shills vehemently against online:
>nofap
>keto
>self-improvement

It works really well. If you look more into doing a once weekly refeed after a depletion workout you won't have any strength loss.

The effects of saturated fat were established as far back as the 50s

There isn't some mad world-wide health conspiracy trying to get you to stop eating more than 30g of sat fat per day because they're evil or driven by profit, they're just well established facts that you have to be a fucking idiot to ignore

Humans always find a way though

There's some studies that say the exact opposite of those studies from then.

Keep abreast of the science that you would use to steer your life. It's vital.

No, there aren't

I know because I did 3 months on keto and was told the same thing by a few idiots and did the research and talked to 2 nutritionists and got the same data driven answers: more than around 30g of saturated fat is bad for a number of aspects of health, primarily related to cardiovascular health

Skewing missing data towards an agenda is not data, end of.

Those studies are also hugely criticized and don't even address most of the evidence linking saturated fat to heart disease.

sciencemag.org/news/2014/03/scientists-fix-errors-controversial-paper-about-saturated-fats

hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/butter-is-not-back-limiting-saturated-fat-still-best-for-heart-health/

Don't pretend that you "keep abreast of the science" when you don't even know the fundementals and history of it. You just hopped in when some desperate magazines started misreporting studies and decided that was all the evidence you needed to keep eating cheeseburgers.

>more than around 30g of saturated fat is bad for a number of aspects of health,

It's really more of a "the less the better" situation. There's no defined upper limit to reach before it starts having negative effects.

>believing studies done by Ancel Keys, who started the war on saturated fats or fats in general, the same faggot who cherry picked data so that it was convincing, the same guy who later reanalyzed his own work and concluded there was no correlation between sat. fat and heart disease

Way to be a typical american cuck

Went full ketard
Was 212lbs
lost 2lbs a week for 10 weeks avg
Lift same weight because im too autist to accept going down
the tiredness-struggle was real
bad mood
Wore a speedo at the beach all summer
got herpes

The former just said "they didn't take into account these other factors" the latter states "eating more butter doesn't lower your heart attack risk and is apparently the same as eating simple sugars".

So....no.
Did you read any of it?

>believing that tired conspiracy theory

Ancel Keys was the scientists who originally found a link between total fat intake and heart disease across populations. This work lead to us eventually determining that saturated fat in particular is bad for heart health, due to its effects on LDL cholesterol, which is well studied. His early work has little to do with why we believe today that saturated fat raises heart disease risk. He also didn't "start a war" or "cherry pick data." You have to be an absolute gullible retard to think one scientists, even if he had some vendetta, could convince all the scientists in the world about something for 50+ years based on one study, much less Ancel Keys who refined his views over time and didn't immediately believe the link was causal. His name has just become a tool for internet diet quacks to make you ignore the wealth of data on the subject, by trying to concentrate the whole issue into a neat little story with a villain, and then slander him so hard that it looks like everything to do with saturated fat and health must be wrong.

Dosen't eating higher saturated fat boost test levels?

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20071648

Dietary fat does not cause heart disease
BEING fat does

The former talks about how one prominent pro-SFA study, a meta-analysis, misrepresented much of its evidence to the point of giving the opposite conclusion to what the data actually said, as pointed out by other scientists, who thought the paper was so bad that it should be retracted from the journal it was published in and have press releases making that clear.

The latter points out that both saturated fat and simple sugars are bad for the heart, and that both should be avoided. I don't think it gets more straightforward than that. "Limiting saturated fat still best for heart health."

The papers that don't find connections with SFA and heart disease have also been criticized for horrible, conclusion-breaking methodology, such as adjusting mortality data to ignore the effect of SFA on cholesterol, which is the main reason it's known to increase CHD rates.

ajcn.nutrition.org/content/92/2/458.long

>It is well established that saturated fat intake is associated with increased concentration of serum cholesterol (4), and that serum cholesterol concentrations are associated with CHD and CVD (5). Therefore, serum cholesterol concentrations lie on the causal chain between saturated fat intake and CHD and CVD and to adjust for serum cholesterol concentrations in a meta-analysis will obscure the effect of saturated fat intake on these health outcomes. Yet 7 of the 16 studies included in the meta-analysis of CHD events, and 4 of the 8 studies included in the meta-analysis of stroke events, were adjusted for serum cholesterol concentrations. These studies accounted for nearly half of all CHD and CVD events included in the meta-analyses (see Table 1). Adjustment for serum cholesterol concentrations will inevitably bias the estimates of effect of saturated fat intake toward the null hypothesis.

The above is a reply to this exact paper. Dietary saturated fat DOES contribute to heart disease, as does being fat. It's not either/or.

>he blames ancient foods for modern diseases

>I-ITS NOT SUGAR AND REFINED CARBS GUYS LOOK AT THIS SCIENCE. I-I-ITS NOT LIKE THE GUYS WHO DO THIS DEPEND ON GRANTS FROM BIG AG/SUGAR CORPORATIONS.

>trusting government advice
>ever

you deserve death

So is keto a meme or not?

I do an unholy mix of IF, PSMF, and keto for my cuts.

The first two weeks are hell, but it gets you there.

the AHA and FDA have been on record lying to the american people for a century

please just look it up for your own sake, american government dietary guidelines are so far off normal

Did you also fall for the "government told everyone to eat lots of sugar and 0 dietary fat" bullshit? Stop reading diet-pandering internet blogs and actually look at things yourself.

Go keto for 10 days
Epic carb re-feed
Keto up again
Repeat, carb hard Saturday morning Keto the rest of the time

>There isn't some mad world-wide health conspiracy trying to get you to stop eating more than 30g of sat fat per day because they're evil or driven by profit
Yes there is

Eat a balanced diet high in fibrous vegetables and lean meat.

>t. science

If you're interested in a ketogenic diet, watch some dr. hyman videos on youtube or other similar doctors.

>high in lean meat

Well, if 6 ounces or less is high. Mostly whole grains, beans, and veg.

dashdietoregon.org/why/DASH-Quick-View

so do we know if keto is a meme yet?

Man I need to dirty bulk, I struggle so much in trying to hit 2500kcal

keto isn't a meme, dropped 40 lbs relatively easily on it.

fundamentally its identical to any other weight loss plan (caloric deficit) but it has the added bonus of quelling hunger. I am a full pizza at 2x clear speed type of consumer and i was able to resist the darkness for long enough to drop to a reasonable weight.

Makes eating out a nightmare since carbs are evil.

Literally the most uneducated post I've ever seen.

The body is not a static entity. The body reacts to stimuli constantly. When caloric intake decreases, metabolism decreases and the body burns energy less efficiently. Largely, the biggest determinate of how energy is used and distributed is through insulin. When insulin increases, there has been direct correlation for weight gain CONSISTENTLY, even at a caloric deficit of 500. When rats are given insulin, their weights increase even in the same conditions. There are countless studies of this. The key to weightloss compounded with the deficit is the removal of insulin. Insulin is released by the pancreas when there are high levels of sugars to be broken down. Keto genie diets have consistent approval from science and studies. This is why diabetics who are given insulin or metformin to treat their blood glucose gain weight. The cure to diabetes to decrease blood sugar is generally accepted as:
1) IF
2) Ketogenic Dieting
And to a lesser extent, Gastric Surgery (banding or otherwise).

So, no. Keto isn't a meme. It's widely researched and well supported.

>60% carbs
>30% fat
>10% protein
>people unironically think this is a balanced diet

This is pretty much what I've been doing along with ECA. I've lost a noticeable amount in the 2 weeks I've been doing it.

People who hate on keto usually don't have their carbs low enough and/or don't consume enough fat.

I lost a good 20% off my lifts but I lost so much fat it was like magic. I honestly had to take a break because I was afraid of getting loose skin.

240>170 lbs.

>I know because I talked to 2 nutritionists

Kill yourself.

what does IF stand for?

Intermittent fasting

Look up Jason Fung on YouTube for more info

>Several clinical studies showing the same results are uneducated

Also as a diabetic you're a fucking idiot extrapolating nonsense about insulins role of conversion glucose to and from fat

>This is why diabetics who are given insulin or metformin to treat their blood glucose gain weight.
No, it 100% absolutely isn't. It's because they consume more calories than they expend like literally every other test has ever revealed. The studies control exactly for this reason.

>The cure to diabetes to decrease blood sugar is generally accepted as:
>1) IF
>2) Ketogenic Dieting

You're talking about type 2 diabetes, and you're wrong on both counts. Low carb diets were an early treatment for diabetes and were responsible for the quick deaths of most diabetics due to extreme malnutrition and hunger. For type 2's low carb diets can and do help control blood sugars, but when controlled against high carb diets with strict pump/insulin control there is literally zero difference

Not only are you talking nonsense but you're trying to use your made up nonsense to accredit a keto diet which is actually fairly dangerous for many types of diabetics due to the livers role in producing sugar for the organs

It's a meme and yes, it's widely researched and shown to have no benefit over standard calorie deficit for weight loss.

Got really good results on keto. Doing it about 8 months now. Starting weight 88kg (194lb) and now 77kg(169lb). No strength loss.

The great thing with keto is the fat I lost was mostly around my waist/abdomen. I used to be a 34 waist jeans and now I'm a 30. I've done nearly all the popular diets and carbohydrate restriction is specifically the only thing I have found to reduce fat around your gut substantially.

I do IF too. Some weeks I do warrior diet for 2 days, other weeks I will do 16/8.

Check out these films & redpill yourself on the most godly diet of all time.

Cereal Killers
Cereal Killers 2
The Big Fat Fix
Fat Head

Recommended reading material

Eat Fast Eat by Brad Pilon (Best book about fasting)
The Obesity Code by dr jason fung
Fat Chance - The hidden truth about sugar, obesity and disease by dr robert lustig
The Real Meal Revolution - Tim Noakes

Comprehensive, noob friendly beginnger guide

antranik.org/keto-diet/

No one gives a shit about type-Auschwitz diabetics.

I've been doing it for over 3 years now, gained 35 lbs and dropped about 5% bodyfat.

I'm still at like 15-16%, so if i wanted to get lower i'd probably have to really be restrictive about how much i eat. Right now i just eat however much i want to.

I actually just stopped a month of keto, I wouldn't recommend it. You loose weight but your energy goes to shit meaning you get tired easier, lifts go down, feel tired all the time.

Just eat low carbs in general but not keto level, keep em at arround 50g a day.

The Action to Control Cardiovascular Risk in Diabetes Study Group. N Engl J Med 2008, Accord.

Bariatric Surgery versus Intensive Medical Therapy in Obese Patients with Diabetes. N Engl J Med 2012, Schauer PR

The Treatment of Diabetes Mellitus 6(8). Can Med Assoc J Aug 1916. Elliot P Joslin.

A Biometric Study of Basal Metabolism in Man. James Arthur Harris, Francis Gano Benedict.

The Biology of Human Starvation. Ancel Keys.

Changes in Energy Expenditure Consequent to Changes in Environment from Altered Body Weight. Rudolph L Leibel. 621-628.

Low-fat dietary pattern and risk of cardiovascular disease: the Women's Health Initiative Randomized Controlled Dietary Modification Trial. Howard BV, et al.

Okay user, you're smarter.

What do you think a balanced diet is? 33% carb, 33% protein, 33% fat, 1% alcohol? That's not what they mean when they use the phrase "balanced diet"

Wait, so you gained weight and lost fat at the same time? Natty?

Yeah natty.

The whole 'you cant lose fat and gain muscle at the same time' is a meme.

You can do exactly that for the first few years as a new lifter. I did, and i started lifting at 28 years old. I'm not genetically gifted or special.

Nigga you did keto wrong

>Just eat low carbs in general

Or don't. It doesn't matter either way.

Strength does go to shit, took me around 2 months to get my strength back

>Low carb diets were an early treatment for diabetes and were responsible for the quick deaths of most diabetics due to extreme malnutrition and hunger. For type 2's low carb diets can and do help control blood sugars, but when controlled against high carb diets with strict pump/insulin control there is literally zero difference

the sugar is just a symptom. the cause is the insulin. pump them full of insulin and, yes, their sugars will go down, but they'll get a bunch of other problems and they'll end up needing more and more insulin as they become more resistant.

if they fast and eat low carb, on the other hand, they become sensitive to insulin again, their sugars go down, they lose fat, and they need to take less (and eventually no) insulin.

Why are you talking out of your ass?

>things that happen over and over again
>talking out of my ass

okay

Are you hallucinating again?

youtu.be/mAwgdX5VxGc?t=18m13s

>water pills
Excuse me?

2 cups of oats, 2 cups of milk, 2 scoops of whey protein (30g)
>900 calories
>60g protein
Best breakfast imo

That's like using Mercola or Chopra as a source.

yeah whatever. i don't think he has any reason to lie about the results.

i look better than you, musclet

also i fukt ur wife's son

just like faith healers and psychic surgeons

i don't even know what you mean by this. he's literally saying "fast occasionally and eat less refined carbs". what's he trying to sell?

Critical thinking and goalpost moving must not be your strong suit. But looks like a bunch of diet books and programs like every other garden variety salesman, not that it matters.

You're literally responding to an actual retard or an epik troll.

You replied to the wrong person in the conversation.

my experience,did keto for like 2 months lost like 10 kg easily not even tracking calories.The shit things were that my lifts were horrendously shit i actually dreaded everyday to lift weights cause of no pump or prior strength.Food selection is very minimal,which will drive you fucking insane some days.I didn't really crave carbs on keto but actually sweets.

There are two main claims of keto proponents, both are just kind of true.

1. "You will lose weight."

This is the strongest case for keto diets. However when controlled for calories it is no better than any other diet. It has been tested in studies against other diets and the weightloss is identical, as long as the calories are equal. The thing is that carbohydrates makes up on average 60% of peoples daily calorie intake so cutting them out will obviously result in weightloss, especially short term, since it takes time for people to readjust. Also about 1.3lbs or 600g of initial wightloss is due to loss of glycogen stores in liver and muscles.

Conclusion: True but not more than on any other diet, and with possibly negative side effect that could be avoided on other diets.

2. "It cures or helps type 2 diabetes"

This is the biggest half truth. To understand why one has to understand how type 2 diabetes works. In basic terms type 2 diabetes is a condition describing a group of symptoms related to glucose metabolism, but the main component is insulin resistance. Insuling resistance is when the body can produce insulin, the beta cells of the pancreas function(although often, but not necessarily, to a lesser degree in type 2 diebetic patients), but the insulin can't transfer the glucose into the cells where it can be used. This leads to elivated blood sugars.
So the main question to ask here is *why* doesn't the insulin function as it should. The leading theory is that an over accumilation of something called intramyocellular lipids is at fault. Insuling allows glucose to enter the cells by attaching to receptors on the surface of the cells, functioning as a "key" that signals the cell to allow glucose in. This happens in diebetic(type 2) patients but still the glucose doesn't enter. This is because inside the cell the intramyocellular lipids cause toxic breakdown products and oxidative stress, stopping the signaling to reach it´s intended destination. Next post>

Cont. Keto diets simply eliminate the glucose out of the equation and calls it "cured" while none of the underlying factors have been adressed. There are only 3 established ways of reversing type 2 diabetes, as long as the beta cells have not been too damaged. They all involve mobilising the intramyocellular lipids.

1. Starvation diets. The lipids are metabolised, new ones aren't added.
2. Low fat-high carb diets. Lipids are metabolised, high nutrient density aiding beta cell recovery, new lipids aren't added.
3. Exercise, for obvious reasons.

of the three things you posted, only fasting ("starvation diets") works. LFHC causes diabetes, so it certainly won't reverse it. and exercise isn't actually all that helpful either.

Would you recommend even if Im not terribly overweight? Im 5'11 176lbs, at about 19% bodyfat. I just want to keep my weight and lose fat and keep my gains.