United Europe

Do you think a united Europe is the way to surpass all the current problems the continent is facing to survive and become a major player comparable to USA and China, with one economy, one army and navy, and one foreign policy? Do you think a Swede and a Greek can get along and first call themselves Europeans before calling themselves Swedes and Greeks? That is the best way a united Europe can govern themselves, a federation, united states, or a centralized government?

Discuss. Serious replies only.

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>United Europe
Never been possible since the fall of Rome.

Animosity still exists between cultures. Even now, the EU can't get its shit together. Members are starting to disobey Germany every now and then.

Even if the EU were to suddenly declare itself one state, it will never be one nation. Cultures, languages, religion, industries all differ too much.

Think Jugoslavia but all of Europe.

Charlemagne might've had a chance if the carolingian sucession laws weren't so fucking terrible.

You're being silly.

>all those hyperdiverse cultures
There aren't many differences in Europe. Not anymore.

It's actually more possible now than before, since the UK held back a lot of this shit, and continentals can't resist a chance to show them up.

There were tries and discussions for a united Europe sincethe 19th century, and no wonder, with our shared history and similar cultures.

Do you think a gradual unification can happen?

>>Never been possible since the fall of Rome.

In what ways the Romans succeeded so it's conquered people called themselves Romans? I know the conquest and enforcement into the the Empire was via militaristic ways, but is there something EU can learn from so European will start getting a united identity, one of the European?

This. Europe's recent history has been "piss of the Anglos, don't piss off the Russkies".

>Even if the EU were to suddenly declare itself one state, it will never be one nation.
This.
Also, even IF such a thing happened, do not call it the "United States of Europe" for fuck's sake. At least call it the European Federation.

European Dominion has a nice ring to it.

Or just plain Europe, as it was called in dire times against external foes.

The thing is, there is this mentality in Europe right now, that I don't care what happens in other European countries, as long as it doesn't bother me.Think the Russian thread in the baltic states, or the immigration influx in Greece/Italy/Spain, so the strategy of "divide and conquer" works pretty well on European countries. As long as West Europe don't realize that hiding your head in the sand will not solve the problems, and stop enforcing policies that 90% of other EU nations don't agree on, Europe will become more and more divided. Look at Hungary and it's fight against the migrant quotas EU imposed.

What about the European Hegemony?

Nah, hegemony implies a zone of influence rather than the direct territory of a state. For example, most of the world could be said to be under an American hegemony but that doesn't imply that it's all one state like a united Europe would be.

You're better at blending in than the rest of your kekistani compatriots, I'll give you that.

Make a treaty of federalising it, sign it in rome and let federal europe be know as the Roman treaty

Good too. European Republic is what I'd go to if you don't want to sound like a villainous Star Trek empire.

Have all the elected officials dress in togas and the prime minister called a consule and we're all set.

As a Frenchman, I am sorry to admit that this will never happen, or at least not in a democratic way. My fellow brethrens are too accustomed to "muh social privileges" and our ponzi scheme welfare state.

>nation state
It's been a meme since the idea appeared in the 19th century. State is the only thing that matters

The only time this couldve worked was if germany became communist after ww1. The plan of the soviets was to establish a "united soviets of europe" once germany became communist. Obviously that failed.

>What are the Yugoslav Wars

>not in a democratic way

Good. Have one guy declare himself to be the Senate and then actually form a Senate to surprise everyone. Move the capital to Strasbourg, it's a better city.

Call it the council

One of the greatist projects in human history, surpassing all influence that the german and italian unification had. Time is running out for the west, before WW1 a single western country could control much more of the world.

One day humanity will leave the Earth, and we need to make sure that it is ours ideals and morals that it will spread.

Except I doubt our military will ever let Bruxel scums put their dirty hands on our nukes.

You'll end up with one really big Islamic caliphate which the United States will probably have to blow up in the future.

>call themselves Europeans before calling themselves Swedes and Greeks
Why is this required for a federal state again?

>>Major External thread
>>Europe realize that massive reforms are needed and discussions are made
>>United army is proposed and gradually applied
>>Major trade aggreements between member states and free movement of people, and goods
>>A united government is proposed and created, responsible for EU wide reforms and problems
>>A decree on united foreign and trade policies are made. No trade with one EU country, no trade with other EU countries.
>>EU government introduces a minimum of 3% of its member states budget for the united military.
>> EU wide constitution is voted, imi-autonomous federal republics united by one government, in which every said republic gives yearly a percentage of it's GDP.
>>EU maintains close ties with US
>> Recognizes future problems, starts active diplomatic influence in other countries and intervention in troublesome countries for internal protection. Ie migrant influx.

>/pol/ack
>weeb

Checks out

Why would a Swede protect a Greek in case Greece is at war, or why would a Greek feel obliged to care or even protect Sweden? As long as there is some sort of unity, the united EU will not work. That doesn't apply to close countries tho, like Spain and Italy with Greece for example, so a gradual unification is favorable. Una fazza una raccia in Italy., mia fazza mia razza in Greek.

Separatism.

Just look at Catalonia. You think Spain's having a great time right now?

You unironically made me tear up a bit. Evropa invicta!

>/pol/ack
You haven't been to /pol/ lately, have you?

>>>EU maintains close ties with US
Aaaand it's gone.

This. A European armed force doesn't need the help of "lmao shoot and rape unarmed brown people: the army".

A united europe will continue to be known as the european union

>im a white nationalist, that means i get subsidized by the Russians and want Europe to remain fractured and weak

We already had a few better names
>European Hegemony
>European Dominion
>European Conclave
>The White Horde
>European Republic
>European Sinchronicity
>European Immanence

That's right. A meme.

>Not the Europerium

I wonder if a common language would be teached to all citizens in the same way Italy, France and Germany made their populations more homogenous. It reduces the cultural heritage and diversity, but it could also strengthen everyone as a whole.

>Unified Europe
>while the UK and Russia still exist

You just gave me a chub, user. Let's hope russian menace and the explosion of african demography will help the Union to overcome its difference. Last year everybody thought the brexit would destroy the EU and now it seems stronger than it ever was in 10 years

/thread
/board
/continent

I'd vote for you based on this alone

>england leaves something
>it's suddenly much better

No surprises there

Its better cause they will stop cockblocking every reform. Plus, no one watch british white trash in Europe.

I know man, I hope so too. The only worrying part is that with the african demographic boom where most likely will be a massive swing in the other direction, of the far right. That's not good for the union.

The EU needs a propaganda ministry and it's all set to go. Call it the Ministry of Enlightened Truth.

There is one. His name is Guy Verhofstadt

We need a population boost tebehe. Africans are an easy choice for the West since they do speak the language, but I'd rather have non-aligned Euros or Sudacas all things considered. Africa needs to be our testing ground where we select the best and brightest to join our Fully Automated Luxury Gay Temperate Zone Social Democracy.

The fact that I'm a huge Euroboo and I don't know his name or what he does speaks volumes. Or perhaps I don't need to know since he'd be preaching to the choire.

We just need cloning factories dude

Problem is the immigrants are fairly right-wing on a number of social issues, and I don't know how kindly they'd take to a European state once they get settled in.

But that would mean German women go extinct inside a generation.

The best would be for us to at least achieve a birth rate that conserves our current population amount. We should then focus on proping up other western allies to compensate for our lack of growing population. We are going to force South America to reach their forgotten potential. After that we can try and recruit some African nations into our sphere.

And ?

Sounds like you're trying to expand from a European Union into a World Union.

I think that as long as we dont throw them all into a ghetto i think that the regular school system will make their children as degenerate as any other European

Won't be possible until frogs finally stop being stubborn and start talking english.

Algeria and Tunisia, Morocco too probably, are very likely candidates.

Net gain for everyone. Expect Germans to lose their drive to work as soon as their country gets filled with Slavettes though.

Our morals and values are unique in that we dont just require our own people to follow them but that the whole planet must accept human rights, democracy and the morals and values that accompany them.

Just look at Burma, they are genociding their own citizens and one superpower, China, is helping the regime with no regard for the human suffering it is creating. This must be stopped.

What do you think is going to happen in germany ? Merkel is in a very difficult position, same for the SPD. The coalition will only benefit Merkel, but if the SPD refuse, the next elections will be even worse.
Meanwhile Macron is sitting waiting for them to get their shit together, and the european calendar is on hold.
On another hand, with the brexit and Merkel in difficulty, it's a perfect opportunity for France to get back more leadership. Using Italy and Spain as allies would allow to circumvene the germans more easily, who lost the UK.

America would probably be on board with helping you in this goal if you'd just implement free speech and the right to bear arms into your laws.

I'd rather think Italy will soon have enough power on its own to challenge the Fra/Ger dualism. Spain is a long way away yet, so they're likely to back France.

We don't like or need guns, as a general rule.

The guns waste the pictures desu

"As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it." -- GEN 9:7

Thee West needs traditional Christian values and the return of the family unit, at the same time cutting all needless welfare and foreign aid, and using that money for space exploration instead.

The role of life is to propagate itself, not to cuck itself into an empty hedonistic life of materialism and consumerism.

The modern Western male will never know the joy of being a grandfather hosting a huge family gathering, being a patriarch with 5 children and a dozen grandchildren and knowing it all came from your seed.

Instead, if current trends continue most young people today will end up childless under the care of a foreign nurse in a retirement home.

Isn't that sad?

Oh please, family reunions are awful and a field of tensions most of the time. Poland is hardcore christian and yet their demographic growth is only of 1.2. France is dechristianized and was the european exception for a long time. It's changing now but still.

Then the whole planet doesn't have to accept ALL human rights, I suppose.

America is a joke. I remember reading about them passing a law and sneaking in a defintion of children that works against abortion. They call themselves a fucking democracy and then do third world shit like sneaking shit into legislature. The population is rediculously polarized and seriously hinders how the country functions, they are having their second government shutdown as of right now. Not to mention the anti-intellectualism that the current administration is supporting.

America cant seriously change the world for the better until they reform their society.

And we dont abide to the American definition of free speech which allows free incitement of hatered that created one of the greatest crimes against humanity.

I think the only way for a the languages issue is to have 2 or 3 recognized languages, french, english and german. All teached in school. Majority of Europeans still speak 3 languages already.

You're family is shit
Maybe that's why you are like this

Then all polish families are shit too, I guess. Same for Denmark, all nordic country, and Europe in general

>And we dont abide to the American definition of free speech which allows free incitement of hatered that created one of the greatest crimes against humanity.
I didn't know you were shitposting until I read that part.

>BUT I WANNA SAY KILL ALL NIGGERS
>MOOOOOM THEY WON'T LET ME CALL FOR RACE WAR
>WAAAAAH

Come to Europe, learn to be polite you boorish barbarian

Why should you go to jail for calling someone a nigger? Why do you trust the government with the power to police speech like that?

Poland is not "hardcore Christian". No Western nation today has mantained Christian values, that's why their populations are shrinking.

Meanwhile in America, Amish have the highest population growth rate of any group in the country.

You don't go to jail, you get fined

You go to jail for "kill all niggers", as you should.

Amish are fucking heretics

Why? Why give the government that kind of power? Why should you go to jail for that?

And why should you get fined?

Inciting violence you absolute cretin.

Slander, insult, whatever your code of law says.

>Inciting violence
But I'm not inciting violence, I'm just saying kill all niggers

>Slander, insult, whatever your code of law says
Slander is when you purposely lie about someone, we don't have any laws against insults because we're not pussies

You'll all be chicano niggers soon anyway

And that'll be a fine of 200 Euros for calling someone a nigger.

So what I get from this is you're a petulent spoiled child who never wants to take responsibility for what he says and thinks shouting race war or other idiotic Cambodgian Sandalweaving Forum garbage IRL is a show of revolt and not just a pubescent edgy attention seeking cry for help. You're pathetic.

I'm smart enough to not do it in public, user

No, I just don't need to protected from the opinions of others like Europeans do apparently.

So you're not even willing to live by the values that you endorse? You're all "just learn to be polite user" but as soon as the government turns its gaze away you start spewing insults like an edgy teenager?

That might have been possible if the federation looked like that. But the EU expanded too fast. Eastern countries will not agree, considering they got their sovereignty back recently.

Lmao.

>the values you endorse
Kek, I'm not racist.
I say niggers for shit and giggles, and I can actually make the difference between black people and niggers, nigger.

responsibility for what? im not responsible for other people's feelings. there are laws against enciting violence and making false alarms...thats good enough and its been shown to work just fine in the US

Early in US history when libel and slander laws were loosely defined the president could and sometimes did imprison or censor the public. never again.

The only reason speech laws in Europe are even remotely acceptable is because they have benevolent governments...that doesn't last forever.

it's because to americans stupidity is a quality to be celebrated, Europeans don't like it and pass laws to keep stupid people from talking too much

>hurr I want to scream offensive shit all the time to troll le people epic win

What do you think about the guy in Scotland being prosecuted for hate speech after he uploaded a comedy video of his dog giving a Nazi salute?

theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/09/nazi-salute-dog-man-faces-hate-crime-charge-scotland

This is why I'm opposed to hate speech laws, they're too open to abuse.

I never said you were racist, neither am I?

>I say niggers for shit and giggles
Which will get you arrested or fined in Europe

>Scotland
>Europe

>Which will get you arrested or fined in Europe
And that's all good because it will prevent retards like you to spew it.
Starting to get the idea ?

>hurr I want to scream offensive shit all the time to troll le people epic win
Are you fucking serious? Is that what you think? You think its ok that comedians in France get arrested because of their sets? Do you think its ok that Germans can be fined for doing nazi shit, even ironically or as a joke? do you think is ok? People can criticize america for lots of things, but free-speech is what America does as well as anybody.

I hope this is a g*rman