The pol question:

>especially Pomerania
Perhaps the very western part but that's about it. And in a lot of cases we can get different results depending if we care more about how many years a city or region belonged to which country or who was the "original" owner.

>Youtube comments
Might as well cite what the mentally retarded think too

HUR DUR XDD

Prove that Germanics in Poland spoke a Germanic language.

>inb4 Wulf's bible
Not from Poland.

But that's exactly the level represented by the people who believe it.

Well they're on fucking youtube, what exactly are you expecting?

>the very western part
I think you're exaggerating a bit. Even if you define Pomerania as being bounded by the Netze and Vistula rivers, i.e. the biggest possible definition for Pomerania, then it's been split essentially evenly between Germany and Poland throughout history. Using the more "typical" definition of Pomerania, it's been mostly German.

>And using your logic they're right, since if one of those maps was made for Germany you'd find that East Prussia and especially Pomerania have been German for far longer than they've been Polish. Silesia less so.

But that is exactly the reason why I said it was populated by Slavic people.
Indeed, Silesia was not always a part of Poland but it was populated by Slavic people over which Silesian dukes ruled over who were sometimes independent and sometimes were bending knee either to Polish or Bohemian King.
And about Pomerania, even its name is Slavic in origin and, again, was populated by Slavic people. And even many Germans came, their dynasty was Slavic in origin.

>Not from Poland.
The Goths mostly migrated out of Poland in the 3rd century. The Gothic bible was translated in the mid-4th century. What took place in those 100 years that made the Goths decide to start speaking a Germanic language?

Also, can you specifically name the tribes in Poland that you don't believe were Germanic? Furthermore, what ethnicity do you think these tribes were instead, and what is the evidence for thinking this?

Germanics lived there before Slav(e)s came in. It is rightful German clay

I think poland and germany should submit their lands to the anglo saxon

So you have no evidence then? Right.
Germanics came in Iron Age. Bronze Age Poland was populated by Corded Ware people and sorry to say, but they were closer to Slavs and Balts than to Germanics, that came out of Elp Culture mixing with Nordic Bronze Age.

This but unironically

>Pomerania, even its name is Slavic in origin
Completely irrelevant
>And even many Germans came, their dynasty was Slavic in origin.
Dynasties were a mess in medieval Europe, I don't really think this is a sufficient argument.

The only real fair point is that Poles have inhabited those regions for longer than Germans (bar East Prussia which was obviously populated by Balts until the Germans arrived).

Germanics left the area you tard.
When Slavs migrated westwards, they found lands which were, for the most part, devoid of human settlements.

Because stormtards don't care about history or facts, they only care about making the Nazis look good whatever it takes.

only retards say that
the truth is that poland should be given to russia

Poles expelled homogenous German populations from Pomerania, Silesia and East Prussia. It's absolutely reasonable to consider this unjust.
In my opinion demanding these territories back is retarded because it would only create problems, but you can still make an argument.

Demanding West Prussia and other territories that never had a German majority is absolutely retarded though.

>Homogenous
Only Stettin and Breslau really apply there

>So you have no evidence then?
No. We have the Gothic bible, alphabets, calendars, manuscripts, runic inscriptions, a dictionary, a song, proper names, and loanwords in Proto-Slavic.

Occam's razor says that if we have evidence for the Gothic language being Germanic in the 4th Century, then their language was probably Germanic in the 3rd Century too when they still lived in Poland.

What makes you think that they suddenly changed their language in the 100 years between living in Poland and migrating to Ukraine?

>szczecin and wroclaw

fixed that for you

The internet is full of prussia pros

SAVAGE

Yeah, wow, one Polish family in some Silesian or Pomeranian village now means that its not homogenous any more. The areas I spoke about had absolute German majorities.

>Absolute
There was a fucking civil war in Silesia dipshit, it was heavily mixed and contested between its natives, why do you fuckwits even come here?

Yes, in the very east in upper Silesia. The rest was German, and you know it. Also why do you insult me?

What a horrible map.
Furthermore, you are purposely ignoring the topic.
Those lands were Slavic when Germans came. It was only later that they became majority German.

I was correct to differentiate between western Pomerania and the Pomerania proper (let's call it eastern)

EASTERN POMERANIA
~960- 1037
1047-1065
1116-1308 (1274 - slight Brandenburg expansion to the east and the reverse situation for the Poles in 1279)
1466-1772 (Gdańsk in 1793)
1918-1939
1945-

687 (708) - Polish
350(371) - German

WESTERN POMERANIA

~960 -1007
1122-1181
1945-

879 - German
179 - Polish

>Slavic = Polish
>every place where archeologists dug up some Slavic pottery should be annexed by Poland
I love this meme.

Look at your own fucking map dipshit, pretty much all of Silesia including Breslau/Wroclaw is fucking Polish according to your own shit

Yeah sure, Germans actually never where there you know. German eastern settlements are a hoax.

I didn't ignore anything. Germans migrated there mostly peacefully during the middle ages, just like Slavs did from the east during the migration period.
Sorry to tell you you're color blind...

>ignoring population density

You have jackshit from Polish territory. bunch of corpses that fit early Slavs from Vistula to Lichtenstein.

Fair analysis, but I didn't say you were wrong to differentiate between western and eastern Pomerania. All I said was that your wording (the very western part) was a bit disingenuous since the parts of Pomerania that were German were quite significant.

Also just a minor point, but eastern Pomerania isn't Pomerania proper. Western Pomerania is usually considered to be Pomerania proper, while eastern Pomerania can be called Pomerelia.

I'm purposely writing Slavic because at that time there were many non-Czech and non-Polish Slavs many of whom would get assimilated into Polish name.

Read the thread retard.

Sure if Germans (or whoever is fighting for the German cause so hard these days on the internet) want to put the blame of a communist operation on a single nation somehow but that would open a can of worms considering that Poles were ressettled from the east.
And it wasn't even the only period of massive exodus on these lands in recent history. They became mostly German during the late 19th century Kulturkampf. Now that was also unjust wasn't it?

What makes you think that they suddenly changed their language in the 100 years between living in Poland and migrating to Ukraine?

it belongs to sweden and ukraine

german KANG of wettin dynasty has claim to polish throne
its the only way to reinstitute monarchy

What makes you think they were Germanic to begin with? That bible might've been a fake for all you know. Their diet, teeth, skulls fit Slavs perfectly.

>Poles expelled homogenous German populations from Pomerania, Silesia and East Prussia.
It was Stalin who did that.

I replied to OP in my first post...
>They became mostly German during the late 19th century Kulturkampf. Now that was also unjust wasn't it?
The so-evil Prussian deportations where 30,000 poles who had austrian or russian papers, they were sent to Austrian or Russian parts of poland. Poles with imperial German citizenship were left alone.

Also most Germans in the territories with German majorities lived there since medieval times....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostsiedlung

Two horrible fatass kings but I feel like the Wetting who was the (admitedly powerless) ruler of the Duchy of Warsaw proved himself to be a man of honor who tried to do his best for what was essentially a foreign nation to him. Though reinstalling monarchy wouldn't make any sense today.

>What makes you think they were Germanic to begin with?
The Gothic bible, alphabets, calendars, manuscripts, runic inscriptions, a dictionary, a song, proper names, and loanwords in Proto-Slavic.
>inb4 not from Poland
What makes you think that they suddenly changed their language in the 100 years between living in Poland and migrating to Ukraine?

>Their diet, teeth, skulls fit Slavs perfectly.
Not really surprising that people living in Poland in the 3rd century had a similar diet to a culturally similar people living in Poland a few centuries later. As for skulls, the expanding Slavs would have assimilated the existing populations in Poland, as East Germanics would have assimilated the existing populations in Poland before them, and so on. It's hardly surprising that """racially""" they're similar.

Blah blah. Germanic claims to Poland die with each dig. And soon, there will be no skin or meat on this bone left.

>1918 "modern" map
>Irish are the same color as English yet all the other Celtic people are grouped into one color
>Lithuanians majority in a third of modern Belarus
>Iraqis are Persians
>Azeris are called "Iranians"
>Karelia literally has no Russians and they extend almost to Vologda
>Ingrians are Estonians

French mapmakers everyone

Very convincing.

>Azeris are called "Iranians"
They literally are Iranians. Those in Azerbaijan were just brainwashed by the Ottomans into believing they're actually Turks.

There are no loans in Proto-Slavic. Not if you refer to hydronyms, you're just making shit up and I won't correct your outdated view.

There are.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Slavic_borrowings#Slavic_and_Germanic

Azeris have been Turkic for centuries. They didn't all decide to speak Turkish in the previous century. If you're referring to the actual Iranian minorities in the area, then look no further than the Tat people.

The 1931 census is my favorite but I think there are a couple earlier ones but there's no much difference despite everything that happened between 1918 and 1931. Maybe comparing every bit of data would help /pol/ find traces of that supposed German genocide they keep whining about but never happened.

Those could've easily come with Ostsiedlung.

I don't really know about Germans in Poland, but I know interwar Poland didn't treat Ukrainians and Byelorussians well. I mean, they took Vilnius from Lithuania for fuck's sake. For it's short existence it was almost as bad as the German Empire.

Vilnius was Polish. Lithuanians had it only because the Soviets gave it to them.

>Congress Poland not counted
shit map

Only some.

Germans had shitton of dialects, those could've easily survived up to late medieval, so.

Germanic presence in Poland is overblown by German nationalists in earlier era of German nationalism. They came in Iron Age and small numbers. Bronze Age Poland was populated by Proto-BaltoSlavs and Proto-Celts. No Germanics yet.

Poland and Ukraine had a weird relationship. Close allies for a time (Symon Petlura) but there were several Ukrainian states. After 1921 there was an actual terrorist organization that killed a few Polish politicians (all of them pro-Ukrainian ironically).

Yes Belarusians couldn't learn their own language in Polandwhich today is seen as unacceptable.

>I mean, they took Vilnius from Lithuania for fuck's sake
You could make an argument that it should've become a free city or something. I guess it would've been fair. But the city itself was almost completely Polish.

>They came in Iron Age
This is when the East Germanics began to emerge in Poland, so how does this disprove what I'm saying?

>literal capital of the Grand Duchy for centuries was historical Polish land
By that logic Danzig was German.

>Bronze Age
kek, yup, let's go back even further. Germanics are more WHG than Corded Ware so Iron Age Germans returned to their rightful homeland.

Nice Shithuanian map

Parts of that map could be disputed, e.g. the Pomeranians were only under Polish rule for a short time around 1000 AD and became de facto independent after a few decades; the Polish rulers did not manage to establish a lasting authority there.

The period of the fragmentation starting from 1138 is also not considered, Silesia and others were factually independent from there on for lack of a central Polish authority.

It disproves "eternal germanic in poland" meme. If chronicles are the only evidence for Germanics in Poland, then you shouldn't really take it seriously. Germania was a geographic term and chroniclers mentioned that some Germanics were much different than others.
I don't think so, honey.

He meant "Vilnius was Polish" as in the ethnicity of the people living there. You dummy.

>It was part of the Commonwealth but it was fully Polonized. It was a Polish city.
>Danzig
Danzig wasn't Polish, so I don't see your point.

That's modern day Poland and Germany. Early Germanics were even more I1 than today.

>If chronicles are the only evidence for Germanics in Poland
They aren't. There's plenty of linguistic evidence, some of which I've mentioned in this thread.

Poles seem to have had it coming to them in WWII regardless, as they made too many enemies.

I know Vilnius was majority Polish, but that doesn't justify its annexation from Lithuania because of historical colonization. Germany did the same thing in Poland, and they were eventually punished for it.

Irrelevant. Easily disproven by Ostsiedlung. There are Slavic hydronyms and toponyms all over modern Germany, some even going as far as Netherlands and Switzerland, and yet I don't bring them up.
Haplogroups are irrelevant. aDNA matters much more.

Yes after WWI many countries emerger or reemerged in Europe and the demographic map was a mess so the conflicts arose. Basically free for all. Things settled down after 1921. From that perspective all countries "had it coming". Trying to equate those border disputes with an aggressive war of conquest and complete domination started by both USSR and Nazi Germany is false equivalence. A tactic popular among both German and communist apologists.

He's right though, both ancient and modern Germanics are closer to WHG than Corded Ware was.

They're as much WHG as modern Poles.

>aDNA matters much more
Both are a meme. I would say that culture and language is more important than DNA. Apparently Rurik was N1c, but I doubt he considered himself a Finn.

gdansk was polish for longer than it was german even by 1918

>and yet I don't bring them up
You would if we were discussing Slavic presence in Germany. And I'm sure you'll agree that it's undeniable that Slavs once lived in Germany.

Likewise, however, we have enough linguistic evidence to know that the East Germanics were in fact Germanic. And no, historians aren't simply confusing items from antiquity with items from the High-Late Middle Ages. That is ridiculous.

Then those words would only exist in Polish and Czech, not in all Slavic languages. These words existed in Proto-Slavic, the conclusion is that Slavs took them from the Goths before the dispersal of Slavs.

>everything I don't like is a meme
>Likewise, however, we have enough linguistic evidence to know that the East Germanics were in fact Germanic
Even though they looked like Slavs, ate like Slavs and burned bodies like Slavs? So are Syrians, Poles, Ukrainians, Negroes Germanic as well? Because they live in Germany? This is your logic.
>Then those words would only exist in Polish and Czech, not in all Slavic languages. These words existed in Proto-Slavic, the conclusion is that Slavs took them from the Goths before the dispersal of Slavs.
Cultural exchanges are quite common and don't necessarly mean one ruling over the other.

Some of the Gothic names are quite Slavic sounding.

For example, Germans inherited word for "border" from Slavs "Grenzen - Granica".

>This is your logic.
Actually it isn't. Believe it or not, in Iron Age northern Europe, things were a lot more homogeneous than in modern northern Europe. For example, it's highly doubtful that there would have been any Sub-Saharan Africans living amongst the East Germanic tribes. So having solid proof that the Goths spoke an East Germanic language is enough to say that they were East Germanic.

Unless you want to start claiming that haploshits and cranial indices determined ethnicity in anqituity Europe?

>Cultural exchanges are quite common and don't necessarly mean one ruling over the other.
?

No one implied this. He was pointing out your misunderstanding of the term "Proto-Slavic" and its implications for understanding Germanic loanwards in Slavic. Since those Germanic loanwards are in Proto-Slavic and not in select Slavic languages, the loaning must have occurred prior to the Slavic dispersal.

>Western Europe is ashamed of its past
>Slavs wewuz as Goths and Vandals
Damn, the times sure have changed.

This

/thread

I know about the sarmatian meme but where are goths or vandals ever relevant in discussions among Poles? Does it come before proto-Slavs or what?

get back to /int/ you kanker

The Goths and Vandals were East Germanics that migrated to modern day Poland from Scandinavia during antiquity. Nationalistic Poles don't want to accept the fact that Germanic languages were spoken in Poland prior to Slavic languages being spoken (since the Slavs only expanded into Poland during the early Middle Ages), so they pretend that the East Germanics were actually Slavic(Polish)

Cuz the interwar border just looks nicer than the essentially straight vertical one that exists today. Tho I would have made the Prussian exclave it's own country and let the rest of Germany be it's own, more sophisticated self because Prussian militarism is what Germany such a cunt in the first place. Removing Prussia from Germany was like nudering a naughty dogs balls, makes Germany much nicer in the long run.

Not to mention that to this day, Silesians don't see themselves as Poles, and Pomerania has a large German population still.

There's virtually no Germans in Pomerania and Silesians are Poles in everything but name. German Silesians went extinct, like all other East German cultures, after they were resettled to Germany and were forced to assimilate to the local culture.

Wishful thinking of XIX-XX century. Soon to be debunked.

>Nationalistic Poles don't want to accept the fact that Germanic languages were spoken in Poland prior to Slavic languages being spoken
No one gives shit about it either way
Stop talking of which you don't know