What events lead to Haiti becoming the utopia it is today?

>there's places in the west where people are poorer than the average in their country so it's basically the same as a Mad Max tier shithole where people eat mud cakes and routinely rape each other to death

I wonder what Haiti and US shitholes have in common?

Hey now, Haiti's good parts have black people too.

Horrible land management. It's one of the dirtiest place nowadays, people just threw trash anywhere they pleased for decades and still do.

Didn't stop them from being a major exporter of sugar under french rule. The sugarcanes didn't flee on boats, they destroyed their land.

Let's see...

>A small island where 99% of the people were slaves and 1% were filthy rich Frenchmen
>French Revolution, proclaim the Universal Rights of all Men
>Oh no, but not you fucking niggers, we didn't mean to include you when we said "universal"
>Revolt
>Declare independence, now they are isolated, surrounded by hostile countries, with an undeducated 99% slave population
Don't even need to bring racism into it to understand. They never stood a chance.

>Haiti's good parts

*revisionism intensifies*

Where in the US are people eating dirt again? Which part of the US is the poorest place in the Western Hemisphere? The nicest parts of Haiti are vacationing spots.

Where all those meth heads and opioid addicts with high suicide rates. West Virginia is a good example. A lot of whites in those areas.

I never made this about race, not everyone on Veeky Forums is the same person buddy. And it’s laughable to compare the even worst trailer park in Appalachia to the most poverty stricken country in the Western Hemisphere.
>Suicide rates
Really? That’s your argument? Those people are choosing to die, they’re not starving to death before they reach the age of 12.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4168596/

>uneducated populace of former slaves
>no natural resources
>no infrastructure
>no money whatsoever
>extremely difficupt terrain
>earthquakes
>hurricanes
>basically every disease ever and a few unique ones
>literally the whole world hostile from day 1
>forced to pay massive debt to france for being allowed independence, still paying to this day
>brutal civil wars, loses half the country in 1856
>tiny and irrelevant
>ruled by idiots and tyrants

They basically got dealt literally every bad card anyone has ever been dealt and then a few

Wrong timeline, bub

the poorest redneck in the US would be upper middle class in haiti

>The sugarcanes didn't flee on boats, they destroyed their land.
Ayuckshully, the sugarcanes died because a lot of Haitians worked there as slaves and when independence came and the new Landowners planned on continuing the export of sugar (something the revolution's leaders supported to help the economy of the newfound state), the peasants refused and fucked off to tilling their land as subsistence farmers. So hated was plantation culture.

It was once the most productive area in the world. Then they killed the French. Then it turned into a shithole.

Fun fact: Jeferson wanted to take the US army into Haiti and exterminate the blacks for doing that.

jefferson was the most based founding father. its a shame most of his ideas never made it into reality.

These. Haiti was fucked over from day one.

Seriously?
Source on this?

Most Haitians would kill to live in a place like West Virginia, but you don't see rednecks lining up to move to Haiti.

Can Hatians even make heroin and meth though?

>no natural resources
>tropical island surrounded by an ocean of fish

>ya bro build infrastructure with fish
Retard

holy shit, its the haitian international defense force

Reminds me of the whole Tulip thing with The Netherlands. You're retarded buddy

Being ruled by the west again

>Haiti's good parts
Really tho... aren't the only "good" good parts behind walls, catering to passing cruise ships?

Killing all the wh*tebois.

>dealt every bad card
>Haiti has no infrastructure
It clearly does in Conan's videos, fuck off alt-righters no one believes you bullshit anymore.

user at no point are those posts blaming the Haitians for what happened to Haiti. It's more of "shit sux but what are you gonna do?"

I never said “Haitians are shit”. I’m saying that Haiti is shitty, because it is. It’s the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere.

>literal anecdotal evidence
You are quite possibly the biggest nigger on the planet. Yes, it's incorrect to say that Haiti has literally zero infrastructure, but they are undeveloped to an almost retarded degree. They are literally ranked 136 out of 140 nations in terms of infrastructure. Educate yourself.
ifw-members.ifw-kiel.de/publications/a-new-global-index-of-infrastructure-construction-rankings-and-applications/KWP_1929.pdf
(page 32, at the very bottom)

>MUH CNN INVENTED ALT-RIGHTERS
This is just the icing on the cake.

nytimes.com/1984/02/13/us/southern-practice-of-eating-dirt-shows-signs-of-waning.html
the south

moving into the modern day you get the problem of brain drain as well, anybody who is actually motivated and can get an education gets the fuck out because there's no opportunity. So they constantly lose their best and brightest.

his ass

Brilliant bait. Fuck off back to /pol/.

Also extreme overfarming in its plantation days which is typical of plantions

The abscence of whiteness and their stupid culture and their stupid agriculture techniques and their stupid civilized way of living made it the mud hut paradise of rape and muggings.

why do africans always fail so spectacularly at farming at a subsistence level? how fucking hard could it be?

a thousand slavic peasants lifted straight out of the 19th century would probably be able to turn haiti into a utopian paradise of plenty in three generations flat

Being a cashier in the US provides a better quality of life than anything lower than middle class anywhere else in South/Central America.

you forgot

>black populace

what's the average iq of haiti again?

Right, which is why Moldova is a wonderful, rich country user.

>potus calls haiti a shithole
>his detractors post images from tourist resorts to counter him
>his shills post images from ghettos to counter them
>both bitch about cherrypicking while cherrypicking
>both bitch at you for being an indecisive coward for pointing out the obvious

Me, an intellectual, would remind you of the vast space between heaven on earth full state wide tourist resort perfect and people dying on the streets dogs eating corpses demolished houses ghetto.

Plus y'know 2 decades of war fucking the land up leading to an illegal timber industry so that the people that didn't want to join the army could earn money somehow leading to mass deforestation.

Haitian history just fucking sad.

>people posting images of tourist resourts is somehow equivalent to posting images of how most people in the country live
Another le enlightened centrist I see.

lol, there is only one side that is actually "cherry picking", and it's not the people posting pictures of a typical street in Port au Prince

>most people in the country live in front of a collapsed building with a dead child and a mother crying over it as the sun is setting down and we can see wild dogs in the distance

I’ve been twice to Haïti for a few weeks, not in tourist resorts, staying with the family of the nanny that basically raised me until I was six and then worked for us for almost ten years after that, just outside of Port-au-Prince. Doesn’t make an expert or anything, and overall this was still a privileged experience even if it wasn’t resort tier, but I’d say I’ve had a glimpse of what life in Haiti is like: it is a shithole, there is no ghetto, the country is the ghetto. So, sure, people posting pictures of right after the earthquake or after storms are cherrypicking, but the country is in barely better shape in regular conditions. Trying to minimize that does nothing good. The only good part of Haiti are the people who do their best despite the worst possible conditions and even then they sometimes fuck up their country even worse because they have no alternative.

Find more excuses, retard.

Keep making excuses. Hope it makes you feel better.

In fact, make excuses for all brown/black countries that are shitholes.
Because you have to in order to not be a hypocrite.

How was anything posted an excuse? It was context you fucking idiot. The sugar cane crop didn't fail because "hurr hurr them niggers is lazy" but because the land was irredeemably fucked and the farmers turned to subsistence farming and timber.

Find more excuses.

>because the land was irredeemably fucked
That's not how land works.

...

im not trying to defend some nogs in the carribean,im just saying that haiti isn't exactly a good place to start a country especially with what they have to deal with

Bullshit.
Find more excuses.

>What is soil erosion and degradation
>Which is chiefly caused by mono-cropping, overproduction, slope farming, war, and deforestation all of which were highly present in Haiti for decades

>Kill whitey and and the mixed breeds who are smarter two centuries ago
Tadah

>>What is soil erosion and degradation
Excuses.

>>Which is chiefly caused by mono-cropping, overproduction, slope farming, war, and deforestation all of which were highly present in Haiti for decades
More excuses.

How is that an excuse?

>kill the whites
>ruin their own lives for eternity
>"But it wasn't their fault because Haiti wasn't in a position to be self-sufficient."
>killed the whites who made it so it didn't have to be
>"But that doesn't matter it wasn't their fault."
What's that word for people who make up any excuse to justify their wife fucking another man?

Because some of those things occur literally everywhere, and the rest is the direct result of their actions.

>i wont listen to valid arguments because of my ideology
top wew

>Killing the whites is what rekt Haiti
>Not the massive indemnities and debts they needed to pay to France to be legally recognized as a nation, and the loan to pay those debts given to them by the bank of France slapping them with interests rates the government is still paying to this day.

East Asians have no trouble creating prosperous countries and even empires in similar or worse conditions.

>more than twice the homicide rate of muttland
>which already has like 3-5 times the homicide rate of most other western nations
>utopia
ok

>>uneducated populace of former slaves
What about all the french educated ones who lead their revolution?

>>no natural resources
Crown of the French colonies

>>no infrastructure
A highly productive European colony with zero infrastructure?

>>literally the whole world hostile from day 1
So no country on earth was in opposition to the French? Nobody wanted a beneficial trading relationship?

>>forced to pay massive debt to france for being allowed independence, still paying to this day

Forced to pay? They couldn't force them to stay as a French colony, how where they going to force them to pay? They paid to open trading relationships with France, they could have just as easily told them to get fucked.

>kill the whites
>whites make you pay for killing whites
>this is the whites fault
How's Tyrone doing

Excuses for what? Im just rationally analyzing the political, environmental, historical and econmical factors that lead to failed states like haiti. If you have a problem with reational analysis feel free to go back to /pol/

>no infrastructure
This excuse always gets me.

Soyboys use it for all former colonies, while the hilarious reality is that they often had tremendous infrastructure, but they simply let it rot and never built any more.

>literally the whole world hostile from day 1
>forced to pay massive debt to france for being allowed independence, still paying to this day
Start shit, get hit

The debt wasn't for killing whites though. It was to pay back France for lost property, including the former slaves they were currently billing.

>m just rationally analyzing the political, environmental, historical and econmical factors that lead to failed states like haiti.
What you're doing is called "hineininterpretierung".
Or "interpretation after the fact".

You could come up with the same excuses or worse for many prosperous east asian or western countries or areas, except they didn't turn into shitholes like Haiti.

>brutal civil wars, loses half the country in 1856
>civil wars, loses half the country

The Dominicans were fundamentally different people who literally got "Taxation Without Representation'd"

All the yapping about no infrastructure or lack of education would make sense if the US hadn't tried what, three fucking times to build up the place and educate the locals on how to run a country? They've sunk billions and years into that place time and time again, it always reverts as soon as they leave.

Oh they had to pay for the property they stole too, well I guess Haiti did nothing wrong in that case.

>Crown of the French colonies
Reminds me of Zimbabwe, another former colony with a similar colonial-era epithet: "the breadbasket of Africa".
Which is in the middle of what apologists would call "savannah and desert unsuitable for farming".

Not to mention the untold trillions in aid that have flowed into the third world after the colonial age ended.

>What about all the french educated ones who lead their revolution?
A tiny minority of the population
>Crown of the French colonies
Based on sugar and coffee plantations, the production of which is horrofically brutal work, hence why they got slaves to do it, as you can imagine after the revolution people were not too enthusiastic about continuing these practices
>A highly productive European colony with zero infrastructure?
Yeah pretty much, the reasons it was prductive were slave labour and just outright extraction of all the wealth on the island, not because the french or spanish actually invested or developed the place.
>So no country on earth was in opposition to the French? Nobody wanted a beneficial trading relationship?
They only really had 5 neighbours, the fench and spanish who wanted to counwuer them, the portugese and americans who made exrensive use of slavery and hence werent exactly extatic about a successful slave revolt, and the british wno were at best ambivilent. Later on things did get better but you get the idea
>Forced to pay? They couldn't force them to stay as a French colony, how where they going to force them to pay? They paid to open trading relationships with France, they could have just as easily told them to get fucked.
>actual recorded history didnt happen because it doesmt make sense in my brain
You need a new brain

No not really, point me to a single other country whith the same shit hurricane level of disadvantages haiti has had that isnt in a similar situation

There's an argument over foreign aid because it creates depedency and it kills local agriculture that can't hope to compete, not to mention the distribution is often seized by corrupt politicians and local warlords, but the same argument can't be made for Haiti since they literally built roads, housing, sewage systems, a power grid etc and instructed the Haitans on how to operate and maintain it, but everything still fell to ruin in a matter of years.

>A tiny minority of the population (was educated)
Much like in Europe at that time.

>Based on sugar and coffee plantations, the production of which is horrofically brutal work
Pffffhahahah. Have you ever seen current sugar and coffee plantations? They work in pretty much the same way.
I'd much rather work on a plantation in that age than in the undustrial machine in Europe at the time.

>Yeah pretty much
No.

>They only really had 5 neighbours
They are and were in the middle of some of the busiest trading routes.

The fact Jamaica isnt as bad as Haiti debunks any idea that its not a shithole due to its population. Its amazing but Haitians are the dumbest niggers in the Western Hemisphere as Caribbean blacks tend to be 72-75 on average while Haitians are always at 60. Caribbean blacks also despise haitians greatly and use haitian as another word for hideous subhuman.

Okinawa off the top of my head. In fact, much of Japan.
And large parts of the US in hurricane alley.

And if tropical conditions are bad, how about severe winter conditions?

>There's an argument over foreign aid because it creates depedency and it kills local agriculture that can't hope to compete
All that money didn't go to simply giving them stuff.

Jamaica was administered by the Brits until the 60s and is run by a mullato elite to this day.

No, nothing like europe, the portion of the population with proper education in europe was orders of magnitude large but more importantl most of europes population had some kind of skills and understanding of the world, unlike slaves
>Pffffhahahah. Have you ever seen current sugar and coffee plantations? They work in pretty much the same way.
I'd much rather work on a plantation in that age than in the undustrial machine in Europe at the time.
Again, baseless conjecture on your part does not refute recorded historical facts, cosider if you are really mentally equipped to be on this board
>No
Not an argument
>They are and were in the middle of some of the busiest trading routes
Trade originating from the exact same exploitative and opressive colonial institutions they had rebelled against. Also haiti had basically nothing to trade

>outright extraction of all the wealth on the island

It was a plantation not a strip mine and at the point when it was taken over by the Haitians it was an extremely valuable well developed plantation. The fact it is now a fucking treeless wasteland is on Haitians shit management of their land. That is not how they inherited it.

>the fench and spanish who wanted to conquer them

Welcome to being a country.

Jamaicia isnt even comparable to haiti, slaver was ended peacefully there before haiti was even a thing and they only became independent like 150 years after haiti

Those examples all have some of the cards haiti was dealt but none even come close to having half of what i outlined in my original post