"...my Father is greater than I." - John 14:28

Do you know the greek word used there?

There's no verse in which Jesus says I am God
There's the verse posted before in which Jesus claims He existed as an existence before Abraham and a scene in which Jesus shows the apostle his transcended form

ITT: Brainlets who haven't read the Bible
John 14:6 faggot

Ego Eimi

Right, the greek word used in Exodus 8:22 is Ho Oon.

And God said unto Moses, (I AM THAT I AM): and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, (I AM) hath sent me unto you.

Kai eipen ho Theos pros Moouseen (Egoo Eimi Ho Oon) kai eipen outoos ereis tois uiois Israeel (Ho Oon) apestalken me pros umas

Jesus only used one ‘I am’. Exodus 8:22 show one ‘I am’ is translated as Ho Oon, not ego eimi.

Ok, so are angels gods? They clearly exist before Abraham.

Tell me more user. How is he claiming to be “the way”(not destination) means he’s god?

Road A23 is the way to London. Is Road A23 London itself?

John 1,1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus = Word of God = God
Q.E.D.

There are no Greek words used in Exodus.

He also said that he is the truth.

That's John's words not Jesus'.

Let me say this clearly, did Jesus himself say anywhere that he’s god? I don’t believe you think John 1:1 is the word of Jesus, do you?

It’s in Septuagint, which is also called Greek Old Testament. It’s the best Greek OT that we got.

>That's John's words not Jesus
Would you throw away all the scriptures except Jesus exact words?

I would throw it all away personally, but I don't matter. Just pointing out that OP asked for Jesus' own direct claims.

The rest of the scriptures aren't really relevant when the question is specifically about what Jesus said, are they?

24 Now Thomas , one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Jesus did not correct Thomas when Thomas called Jesus God. Is this satisfactory proof?

>Did Jesus ever claimed to be god?

I am God.

youtube.com/watch?v=B_2AfrYpqGY

Yes, I do believe Jesus is the truth. He is a true man. What he preached was the truth. In Jesus’s time, Jesus was the way to God. In Moses’s time, Moses was the way to God. And so was Abraham.

Yes, otherwise Jews wouldn't criticise him for claiming to be God, both in the NT and afterwards.

bible.org/article/synoptic-problem
I’m glad you brought that up. Most scholars agree that John is the last gospel and Mark is the first, follow by Luke and Matthew. Most scholars also believe that John forged passages to deify Jesus. I highly recommend everyone to read the link.

Anyway, I have a question to you buddy. Luke and Matthew say Jesus meet ALL of his disciples after his resurrection ascend to heaven on that VERY SAME DAY.

John say Jesus meet 10 of the 11 disciples first, then a WEEK AFTER that, Thomas show up. See? John added that Thomas story to deify Jesus.

Answer this contradiction please. Did Jesus ascend on the very same day or a week after the resurrection?

Yes, I do agree the Jews accusing him of blasphemy. Look at Jesus’s response:

>Jew’s accusation (John 10:33)
“...For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

>Jesus’s response(John 10:34-36)
34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jesus is talking about Psalm 82:6 btw. If YHWH called the Jews gods in Psalm 82:6, why did the Jews find fault in Jesus for claiming to be just the son of god? Jesus is straight out denying of being divine here buddy.

>There's no verse in which Jesus says I am God
That’s right, but there are a lot of clear saying of Jesus saying that he isn’t god, like this one and the title of this thread. Let me give you another example:

Mark 10:18
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

Jesus doesn’t even consider himself to be good. How can such person claim that he is god?

>arguments between christians
>literally the premodern equivalent of shipping wars within tumblr fandoms

You're all autistic.

>34. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
>35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
>36. Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

You've been trolled for your terrorist shitposting.

youtube.com/watch?v=iXrPubdEHNk

It’s not a shitpost goddamnit. In the language of the Jews, if someone is representing god, he is called God. Like for instance,

Exodus 7:1
Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.

Did the Jews worship Moses because God called him a god? Of course not. It’s their language.

Pretty sure jesus did say that he was the son of god multiple times. He couldnt really straight up say that he is god as people at the time would think he would be saying he is the father because at the time thats how everyone understood god.

"Son of God" is not a singular title, it refers to any Jew in good standing. Likewise, calling God your father doesn't mean you are literally claiming to be his direct son, only that you are acknowledging that God created you.

Please refers to . Interestingly enough, Jesus said in John 20:17, “I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”. Metaphorically, we are all God’s sons. David was begotten by God in Psalm 2:7. What’s so special about Jesus claiming to be a son of god?

When he was baptized god straight up said that he was his son.

What is there to make you think that when jesus says it he doesnt mean it in the literal sense?

God said to David he was begotten by God in Psalm 2:7.

Arent there prophetic psalms? I dont know if thats one of them though.

Psalm 2:7 was attributed to David, user.

*is

I know. Why would that mean that it wouldnt be prophetic? Even more so if it was written by david.

God is talking to David in the psalm.

christinprophecy.org/articles/prophecy-in-the-psalms/

There's lots of stuff in the bible which is overlooked.

Hello this is Veeky Forums not /myths/

>It’s not a shitpost goddamnit. In the language of the Jews, if someone is representing god, he is called God. Like for instance,

Except that's all fraud. Pharaoh is a god, Caesar is a god, I am a god, the Jews are damned terrorists obfuscating language to the point that it no longer means anything for their own material gain.

God remains immutably holy no matter how many people monotheists murder for their false god.

youtube.com/watch?v=Ae6TF2GIzVQ

Hes just calling the jews out on their hippocracy. He did that all the time.

The 4 gospels are comparable to 4 different accounts of a historical event. 4 books by qualified historians of say, the life of Napoleon will give 4 different perspectives. In the same way the 4 gospels are 4 different perspectives of the life, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ. Anyhow this is just my thoughts of explaining any seeming contradiction in the 4 gospels. It's not the most intellectual answer to your question but I'm not a scholar.

Yes.

Read your verse in context. the Father sent the Son. He who sends is greater than he who is sent. So the Father is greater than the Son, and the Father elevated the Son over everything but the Father Himself.

And yet the Father and the Son are One.

You really need to at least apprehend the Trinity, and see how it is relational even within itself, before you can understand the relationship the Father had with the Son.

The Holy Trinity, you pr*testant heretics.

Context.
Context.
Context.

John 8
They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. You do the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

>Jesus was as much Man, and the Son of Man, as He was God, and the Son of God. Again, you need to apprehend the hypostatic union before anything of God can make sense to you.

Most liberal scholars = Bart Ehrman, and Bart Ehrman is wrong on everything.

The Christian church has had the books of the bible in order for thousands of years. Matthew first, then Mark, then Luke, then John.

The day Jesus appeared to his disciples is not Ascension Day.

Jesus was on earth for 40 days following the Resurrection.

You're on the right track. The four authors wrote to four audiences to show four faces of Jesus.

Matthew wrote to the Hebrews, to show the Hebrews that Jesus is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the Messiah, the King of the Jews. He includes a genealogy of Jesus through Joseph that goes back to King David, to establish Jesus' bonafides to sit on the throne.

John Mark wrote Peter's account to the Romans to show them Jesus the Suffering Servant, the Ox.

Luke put everything in good order to the Greeks, to show Jesus as the Son of Man, with a genealogy that spanned back to Adam, the first man. Jesus is called the Second Adam in Paul's writings.

John showed Jesus as the Eagle, soaring in the heavens, the Son of God, and God. That's why John spends so much time emphasizing the deity of Christ Jesus.

All of the gospels harmonize, and there have been books published with the gospels all harmonized. There are no contradictions in the gospels any more than there are contradictions in the bible.

No, no he is not. Like many of David's psalms, this one is a messianic prophecy.

Mark 12
Then Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the temple, “How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the Son of David? For David himself said by the Holy Spirit:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”’

Therefore David himself calls Him ‘Lord’; how is He then his Son?”

And the common people heard Him gladly.

He's not, if you knew how to read.

Jesus is mocking the pharisees for claiming to be Sons of God, and yet killing the person who really is the Son of God.

Also, protip, the word also means "judges". Not just "gods".

>quote from one of the Holy Books of Retcon

Were Psalms supposed to be prophetic?

1 Corinthians 13 has 13 verses, not 14.

Not all of them, no. Some of them, yes. And even the Jews thought so, up until the time of Jesus. Same with Isaiah 53.

...

Psalm 2:7
...the LORD said unto me: 'Thou art My son, THIS DAY have I begotten thee.’

Jesus came hundreds of years after David, not that day.

So, no answer to the contradiction then? Different perspective doesn’t explain the time difference, especially when it’s a week difference.

It’s clear in Mark, Matthew and Luke Jesus ascension is on his resurrection day, while on John it’s a week later, while on Acts is 40 days later. But let’s forget that. Let’s see:

Luke 20
33 ...and found the eleven(11) gathered together...
...
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

You can see here Jesus clearly meet all 11 first in Luke, while in John he added a week difference to shoehorn the Thomas story. So, which it is?

Please see >Therefore David himself calls Him ‘Lord’; how is He then his Son?”
user, Jesus call the Father his God in:

John 20:17, “I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to MY GOD, and your God.”
Mark 12:29, “...Hear, O Israel; The Lord OUR GOD is one Lord.”

You need to be consistent. How can Jesus be a son of god when he call the Father his God?

Show me where Jesus mentioned anything about the Trinity then my friends

I’m glad you brought up Isaiah 53. Let’s start simple;

>Isaiah 53:7
...yet he opened not his mouth:...so he openeth not his mouth.
>John 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews...

Jesus opened his mouth many times during the trial. The Jews say Isaiah 53 is talking about Israel, not Jesus.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=emAKzulqw7k
Watch 16:15 till the end please. Though I recommend you watch the entire video.

>Isaiah 53
>prophetic
You do know that Isaiah 53 in the past tense? Don't play around with the scriptures.

*is in the past tense

Do you know what a prophecy is?

Acts 24-26 says it’s about David:

...Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said,

“Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?”
“The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.”

Which is the exact same verse as:

Psalm 2
1 Why are the nations in an uproar? And why do the peoples mutter in vain?
2 The kings of the earth stand up, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against His anointed:

Are you dumb? Theyre even admitting right there that its prophetic. David hast SAID, this is him saying something, its not ABOUT him, then they even put christ at the end because they know who its talking about now.

This thread is a great read

>David is talking
>7 “I will tell of the decree: The LORD said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you.”
I give up. Show me where in the NT that this event occurs.

Why are you jumping to psalm 7? We were talking about psalm 2. Whats your problem? Are you trying to say that none of the psalms are prophetic?

The fuck are you talking about? I’m talking about Psalm 2:7. You can’t even google that shit?

>Acts
Psalm 2 is not prophetic you tard, none of the psalms are, they're prayers. 2 is talking about how David had trouble with his rebellious subjects after his anointing as king, as would be enormously clear if you just read the whole thing instead of quote mining one line.

God calls Moses and Solomon "my son" and "my begotten son", are THEY Jesus, too?

What do you mean occurs? It says today.
Do you want to tell me how something that happened before time can be chronicled in the new testiment?
And no its not talking about when christ was made flesh, he was begotten long before that.
Either way i believe john 1 14 mentions him being begotten.

So you agree that God said to David that he’s begotten that day?

Where did God say that? This is my first time hearing about it.

Just like he said the same thing to Moses and to Solomon.

>II Samuel 14
>I will be to him a father, and he shall be to Me a son; so that when he goes astray I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the sons of Adam.

>Psalm 89:27
>He will call to Me, 'You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation.'
^This is God talking about David

Ok, so we agree on that. God ALSO said the same thing to Jesus, as he did to David:

Hebrew 5:5
...he(God) that said unto him(Jesus), Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Here we can see that Jesus is also a son of god in metaphorical sense. He’s not special.

Show me verse damnit

The psalm is about god the son.

...

Those are both me buddy. Are you saying the psalm cant be about the past and future of christ at that point?

The psalm is about David. You'd have to be deliberately dishonest to claim otherwise.

Yeah, OP. The Muslims were right. The "Apostles" were all either liars or schizos, especially Paul (who are both, probably).

>Solomon "my son" and "my begotten son", are THEY Jesus, too?

Anyone can write or do anything in the name of God, that doesn't make it true.

I am God - Jesus is God.

By saying "I am God" I mean I'm going to lock the consciousnesses of you vermin in a black void deprived of all sensory input for eternity for your disgusting and perverted violations on my name in turning into a weapon for mortal rape, plunder, murder, and hate - not that I'm Yahweh Jr.

There are Mexican drug cartels with more honor than the kinds of things monotheists declare are sacrosanct.

youtube.com/watch?v=omRf4ZPXz6E

So you do agree David and Jesus were both begotten sons of God?

I believe the Muslims didn't view the actual disciples of Jesus as liars. But they do view Paul as a liar. Most scholars agree that the author of Matthew and Luke copied from Mark, so they can't be the actual disciples of Jesus.

>tl;dr

kill yourself schizo

Mark wasn't written by the apostle Mark either. The "real" gospels as written by the apostles would have been like the Gospel of Thomas or the lost Quelle document, nothing but a collection of the sayings of Jesus, presented without context. The "life of Jesus" narrative is a much later fabrication.

Buddy the fucking apostles knew that psalm 2 was about christ. And did you even look at the title of the psalm? Its called The MESSIAHS Triumph and Kingdom. David was not the messiah.

Oh so you're just shamelessly dishonest. Okay then.

Do you even know the meaning of word messiah is? It means anointed. David was anointed by God. And so is Jesus and Cyrus(a pagan).

>kill yourself schizo

We're having a discussion on Jesus being God. Since I am one with God just as whomever wrote the gospels/whomever Jesus was was one with God, I'm particularly qualified to answer questions about what Jesus means when he says he is God.

What he means is he will send you to hell for following Moses - no ifs, ands, or buts.

That's what he says, that's what he means. I'm just here to prove it to you that the threat is not idle...

youtube.com/watch?v=JGwG9-5W15o