Can someone try to explain the meme that

>Funny how people have posted like this for years and it only became an issue in 2016 when a bunch of kids arrived for babbys first election
This. Teenage Trumpshits are the worst thing to happen to Veeky Forums.

haha, alright pretend that biomes don't matter and Europe isn't much much colder than the Middle East.

>Europe isn't much much colder than the Middle East.
The vast majority of places in the world are also colder than the middleeast you fucking brainlet. How is that a valid argument?

Inland and northern North-america along with northern Asia are all significantly colder than Europe and none of those places have white indigenous peoples

huh, but you can find caucasians in the middle east too?

what is your argument here?

Northern climes in Europe were inhabited by Neanderthals. Neandethals were white. After limited interbreeding, the 1-3 percent DNA inheritence was enough to cover skin and hair.

Arrogance and delusion

Europe is DRASTICALLY warmer than it should be for it’s latitude thanks to the Gulf Stream

They were dying like flies from the cold of North America early on

And before you say “Muh Ice Age”

Don’t forget that paleo-europeans took REFUGE in the warm south of europe to escape the glacier climate up north

Northern Europe has always been the most depopulated section of Europe until modern times

Protoasians interbred more with neanderthals.
Pinkish european skin came from indoeuropeans. Blue eyes was present in neolithic farmers.

The Neanderthal gene for light hair isn’t the same one that modern Europeans express phenotypically. And modern pale skin came from the farmers of western Anatolia.

So basically everyone is a mutt?

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so what about Europe during the LGM?

Indo-Europeans were darker than modern europeans are. And blue eyes were a hunter-gatherer trait from the Baltic region.

>modern pale skin came from the farmers of western Anatolia
several alleles do, another important one comes from western Eurasian pastoralists

Climates

Not biomes

Sauce?

>Indo-Europeans were darker than modern europeans are

5000 years is a long time and the difference is fairly minor

>blue eyes were a hunter-gatherer trait from the Baltic region.

WHG weren't restricted to the Baltic but also lived in Portugal and Ireland for example

What if the native and asian populations didn't inhabit cold climate areas long enough to "become white"?

you're thinking of Yamna, who were an example of late-PIEs. And that's all modern Europeans.

>blue eyes were a hunter-gatherer trait from the Baltic region
blue eyes specifically came from WHG, who was much darker than the neolitic farmers and later pastoralists.

there's more to life than the weather, vegetation also matters a LOT.

I don't think it works like that. Do you think the blacks at detroit will eventually become white as well because of the cold winters?

>The only really cold places in Europe are northern fennoscandia and parts of eastern europe

Yeah right now, but in terms of european history its been way colder a lot longer than its been warmer.

How would R get to Iberia from Central Asia?

Why wouldn't they? Skin colour is an evolutionary trait based on how many hours of sunlight you get per annum
It would take thousands of years, and in fact may not happen at all now that we live in a globalized society, but had they been "misplaced" for however many years it would take and somehow survived until the present day they would probably look a lot different.

Yeah, you'd need a darwinian mechanism where Vitamin D wasn't supplemented in the diet and light skinned offspring were turning out healthier.

Pinkish skin came from the middle east after the glaciation already stopped. Jesus, are you pseuds really that stupid?

Fair skin in Europe predates any agricultural expansion from the Middle East.

Let's assume you're right. Many asians already have light skin and their eyes are more adapted to cold climate than white peoples eyes are. So there would be no point in them turning white anyway

No it didn't. Middle Easterners aren't pink either.
It developed in-situ in Russia and Ukraine among the local hunters, some more WHG and others more EHG.

Source?

This particular theory always felt retarded to me. During the Nordic Bronze Age, Scandinavia was about as "cold" as northern Italy, it was lush and warm as fuck. Even today the daily mean temperature in Copenhagen in January is +0.6 Celsius, and in Bergen it's +1.3. This meme about Scandinavia being some hostile Arctic tundra needs to end.

>prehistory
fxd

They've inhabit the region for a much shorter period of time than Caucasians have inhabited the Northern Hemisphere. The Asiatic people of North America couldn't have been there more than 10,000 years ago

and what was the weather in the middle east like ~17,000 years ago? How about that sea level?

I meant origin

Not exclusive

Genomics of Mesolithic Scandinavia reveal colonization routes and high-
latitude adaptation, supplementary page 6

>This is strikingly different from the WHGs – who have been found to have the specific
combination of blue-eyes and dark-skin (15, 17, 18) (Fig. 3B) – and EHGs – who have been
suggested to be brown eyed and light-skinned (16, 17) (Fig. 3B).

Yet paleo-europeans came from the portions of Europe (refugia) free from the freezing areas

They recolonized mainland Europe after the Ice Age

Yes, but these people did evolve into Asia and migrated then there. Siberia used to be populated by Ancient North Eurasians, who were more Caucasoid looking and had blond hair gene, R haplogroup too comes from them.

Where’s your citation?

I blame autistic creaturas from /pol/ who played foo many fantasy games and think everything here is a frozen snowscape where we fight dragons on mountain peaks while wearing horned helmets

We have no clue what ANE looked like

The best we have is a finger bone from a small brown mongoloid siberian boy

>During the Nordic Bronze Age, Scandinavia was about as "cold" as northern Italy, it was lush and warm as fuck
Proof?

we do know that the earliest blonde hair is found in association with ANE

It's a well established fact that fair skin has been found in European HG populations from northern and eastern Europe.

That's pretty much the time when neolithic farmers appeared. The neolithic revolution started near 10000BC.

what evidence is there that neanderthals were white?

wouldn't there by residual pigment genes that predate modern humans evolution of light skin then?

We have some idea, they most likely looked like Eastern Hunter gatherers, maybe even like Finns and Russians.

You make the assumption that there was a specific look instead of an ongoing process of developing not one but a multitude of discrete phenotypes over a vast area which included various climates.

Source?

EHG had zero drops of ENF in their system. Same for the mixed EHG in Scandinavia.

>The neolithic revolution started near 10000BC.
The Neolithic only reached south-east Europe by 7000 BC and north-west Europe by 4500 BC. Eastern hunter-gatherer groups were not affected by farmers from the Middle-East altogether. To imply that farmer migrants from the Middle East were responsible for bringing fair skin to European hunter-gatherer populations completely untouched by the Neolithic is absurd.

>Neither Loschbour nor La Braña carries the skin-lightening allele in SLC24A5 that is homozygous in Stuttgart and nearly fixed in Europeans today2, but Motala12 carries at least one copy of the derived allele, showing that this allele was present in Europe prior to the advent of agriculture.
Just one example.

>The Neolithic only reached south-east Europe by 7000 BC and north-west Europe by 4500 BC.
So?

>farmer migrants from the Middle East were responsible for bringing fair skin to European hunter-gatherer populations completely untouched by the Neolithic is absurd
Why?

Eastern Hunter gatherers and Scandinavian hunter gatheres had the genes, also recent studies have shown that Baltic people might not have Farmer genes at all and they are one of the lightest.
Also farmers themselves got their genes from Caucasus Hunter Gatherers.

Consider: how could farmers from the Middle East be responsible for bringing light skin to European hunter-gatherers when they hadn't even reached them yet?

Actually you are wrong about hair, brown hair comes from neadnerthals, not blond though.

Black hair in Japan comes from Nigerians. Why not?

>"Theoretical work by Cavalli-Sforza showed that if admixture between expanding farmers and previously resident groups of hunters and gatherers is not immediate, the process would result in the establishment of broad genetic gradients. Because broad gradients, spanning much of Europe from southeast to northwest, were identified in empirical genetic studies by Cavalli-Sforza, Robert R. Sokal, Guido Barbujani, Lounès Chikhi and others, it seemed likely that the spread of agriculture into Europe occurred by the expansion and spread of agriculturists, possibly originating in the Fertile Crescent of the Near East region. That is referred to as the Neolithic demic diffusion model."
>"Demic diffusion, as opposed to trans-cultural diffusion, is a demographic term referring to a migratory model, developed by Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza, of population diffusion into and across an area that had been previously uninhabited by that group, possibly, but not necessarily, displacing, replacing, or intermixing with a pre-existing population (such as has been suggested for the spread of agriculture across Neolithic Europe and several other Landnahme events).

In its original formulation, the demic diffusion model includes three phases: (1) population growth, prompted by new available resources as in the case of early farmers, and/or other technological developments; (2) a dispersal into regions with lower population density; (3) a limited initial admixture[clarification needed] with the people encountered in the process."
Neolithic farmers brought agriculture. The hunter gatherers didn't adopt agrarian lifestyle. They had to get mongrelized and get neolithic farmer genes to behave like farmers.

An up to date picture.

hunter gatherers abandoned northern zones and populated the south.

But fair skin has been found in European hunter-gatherers not mixed whatsoever with farmers. Why does this need to be repeated again?

cam.ac.uk/research/news/baltic-hunter-gatherers-adopted-farming-without-influence-of-mass-migration-ancient-dna-suggests

They may be the only exception. Forgot to quote this.
>"Craniometric[1][2] and archaeological[3][4][5][6][7] studies have also arrived at the same conclusion."

dandebat.dk/eng-dk-historie9.htm

Fun fact: Northern Italy today has colder winters than Scandinavia. At least the settled parts of Scandinavia, not some northern shit where nobody lives.

there are varying degrees of depigmentation or pale skin, farmers brought several alleles associated with depigmentation with them that weren't present before.

it's not like the Mesolithic Scandis were black or anything, but WHG was dark af.
>The theory suggests that the reduction of game meat, fish, and some plants from the diet resulted in skin turning light many thousands of years after settlement in Eurasia.[21] This theory is partially supported by a study into the SLC24A5 gene which found that the allele associated with light skin in Europe "determined […] that 18,000 years had passed since the light-skin allele was fixed in Europeans" but may have originated as recently as 12,000–6,000 years ago "given the imprecision of method" ,[22] which is in line with the earliest evidence of farming.[23]

pic somewhat related

The key thing here is that the light skin alleles shared by EHG and Scandinavian half-EHG are from thousands of years before the Neolithic started anywhere.
Anatolian farmers had only intermediate pigmentation between EHG and most WHG.

The reason for this being that they had only SLC24A5 and no SLC45A2 while most WHG had neither.

It probably is, that would included Finns too since Finns are mostly just Estonians.

It doesn't say northern Italy though and here it say it was comparable to Northern France and Central gernamy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Bronze_Age

Maybe in the mountainous areas, in Milan it is 7 C now and in Oslo it's -1C.

>Finns are mostly just Estonians.
Estonians these days are mostly R1a Balto-Slavs

That's interesting. That would mean that EHG were the carriers of pale skin?

That would mean that C haplogroup cromagnon were dark-skinned with euskera characteristics?

Which population started getting paler?

Eskimos and other Mongoloids inhabiting the Arctic Circle get all their D vitamin from their diet and they can sustain it due to practically no competition and small population size, because of that they have survived

That's not what he's arguing though. Also EHG was considerably lighter than the farmers, so it's not even a matter of "light hunter gatherers vs lighter farmers" either.

>now
You have to take averages not just a single day.

That would imply that vitamin D lacking environments forced such people to become pale.

>Many asians already have light skin
Not as light as those of whites))
>eyes are more adapted to cold climate than white peoples eyes are
Blue eyes are an adaptation to few hours of sunlight during wintertime, just like white skin

Proof?

>Which population started getting paler?
I don't understand the question, what's the context?

That's too much work, what do you think I am, an autistic Scandinavian?

Only in places that don't get a lot of sunlight

It seems that EHG where the people who gave europeans the light skin. Who were their ancestors?

Blue eyes are more sensitive to light, when there's constant darkness it's an advantage

>with euskera characteristics
no, they don't have much WHG blood

Proof of the blue eyed ancestors being more exposed to arctic climate.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

It's true desu, talk to anyone who has light eyes.

Mainly a mix of Sungir-Kostenki and MA1 types.
So a blend of Paleolithic Europe and Siberia.

Aren't they the people who had conserved a neolithic language? I supposed they had conserved also more neolithic farmer genetics.

...

I think you confused me with this guy but I'll try to answer anyway, from what I know they were related to WHG and were somewhere between WHG and ANE. not sure about their origins though.

But I found this useful pic.

Meme? If you take 1000 Swedes and move them to the subsahara desert, guess what color their great great grandchildren will be?

That's not Estonians, that's Russians living in Estonia.

>what color their great great grandchildren will be
White obviously. Did Anglos turn into niggers in Australia after 4 generations?

ice age in europe etc, arctic mongoloids on the other hand are a very recent phenomenon
not an argument boyo