They told Buddhism is an atheist religion

They told Buddhism is an atheist religion.

But thet didn't tell me there's a lot of crazy stuff you should believe as buddhist.

>An infinite number of Buddhas
>Reincarnation
>Karma counts
>Supernatural realms
>Miracles everywhere
>You shouldn't trust in science

...

...

>There's a God afterall

Other urls found in this thread:

accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alatrism
youtu.be/35QAyctRU_E
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Bhuddism's basic lessons about how to handle suffering in life are probably the best advice from any religion, whether or not you believe the paranormal side of it.

t. Christian who also reads a good amount of Bhuddist texts because its good shit

People who claim shit like "Buddhism is a way of life, not a religion" are 20 year old college students who get all their knowledge on Buddhism from popular media.

Buddha said not to worry about God. The equivalent of God in Buddhism is Buddha nature; a loving essence from which all things derive. Even despair derives from this loving primordial essence.

Buddha would also tell you not to worry about the mythology if it did not seem pragmatic.

Buddhists teach Buddhism. Buddha taught his perspective on life as a man who had lived as both a prince and an ascetic.

It's kinda like Christ. You really think Jesus would back up every decision and ritual imposed by Catholicism?

Anyway, Buddha wouldn't sweat it if you decided to pick and choose what works for you from his teachings. He'd only be persistent with his beliefs if you asked him to for your own sake. I think so, anyway.

In any case, I believe without doubt that Buddha would encourage you to be your own man.

>You really think Jesus would back up every decision and ritual imposed by Catholicism?

That's more like asking if the Buddha would state that the Hindu Vedas are authoritative.

Eh I'm not sure if that comparison is apt, since Hinduism has a history and culture preceding Buddhism. Whereas with the Catholic Church, it's entirely contingent on Christ.

But I believe your point is that I'm comparing apples to oranges, and whoo boy that's correct.

>that's not essential to buddhism, the real essence of buddhism is
what do modern western defenders of buddhism base claims like this on?
they never refer directly to any actual buddhist texts
if they went to the oldest texts (the tripitaka, presumably the closest to what the buddha actually taught), they'd find them full of supernatural doctrines attributed directly to the buddha
>accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/
for example if you just start from the beginning of the suttas here, with the "long collection", the very first sutta constantly talks about gods, supernatural realms, reincarnating spirits, etc.--this is the cosmology of the whole philosophical system
if you move on to the next sutta, on the "fruits of the contemplative life", which is the whole argument for why it benefits anyone to adopt the buddhist lifestyle, you'll find the fruits include "supranormal powers" like the ability to conjure a "mind-made body", pass through matter unhindered, walk on water, bilocation, etc.

>They told Buddhism is an atheist religion.
A lie told by atheists attempting to appear cultured by latching onto a foreign belief system.

The Buddha was Hindu, and left Hinduism because of the caste system and the so-called authority of the Vedas, which he disputed.

So asking if Jesus would back up the decisions made by the Whore of Babylon is like asking if the Buddha subscribed to the Vedas.

>Buddha is not considered a God, only a teacher
He's literally considered to be more Godly than Gods though. Might as well say "Buddha is not considered a king, only an emperor"
>Buddhism is not based on a god, but on achieving personal happiness
More like achieving Nirvana.
All your greentext is true. Atheist don't even understand Christianity. What hope do they have to understand Buddhism?

>>You shouldn't trust in science
Where exactly in the Tripitaka does it say this?

Not OP but detachment is pretty much incompatible with naturalism since one who puts much emphases on what they physical experience obviously isn't very detached.

technically speaking, a way of life is a religion but I see your point.

>They told Buddhism is an atheist religion.

Where the hell did this come from?

Sure there may be specific sects of Buddhism that are ambivalent about deities, but most at least acknowledge they exist in some way or another, and just because there are no deities does not mean there isn't a complex spiritualism behind it.

Not him but no it isn't. Buddha knew about the Vedas, so we know how he felt about them, Jesus had no clue what people would make up about him.

Atheists can be highly spiritual, look at those new age magick users and the like. Buddhism is not atheist in the sense of denying there is a god, but it is something like atheist in its insistence that worshiping gods is futile vanity. Idk what you'd call it, "alatrist", from monolatrist, perhaps.

>Precedes to worship the Buddhas to get into the land of bliss
>continues worshiping ancestral gods as well
he, nothing personal kiddo.
heh, nothing personal kiddos.

Sure, many Buddhists missed the point. It doesn't matter, maybe they'll get it right in their next life.

>Let me tell you the RIGHT way to practice Buddhism
I think you miss the point, friendo.

>"alatrist", from monolatrist, perhaps.
Huh, it's literally already a word.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alatrism
>Alatrism or alatry (Greek: from the privative ἀ- + λατρεία (latreia) = worship) is the recognition of the existence of one or more gods, but with a deliberate lack of worship of any deity. Typically, it includes the belief that religious rituals have no supernatural significance, and that gods ignore all prayers and worship.
Pretty accurate assessment of Buddhist attitudes imho.

I'm not the one saying worshiping gods is a mistake, that comes from the Buddha himself.

Where exactly? Buddhist seem to worship gods in order to foster good dhrama. Not sure it's "required' but probably helps them achieve Nirvana much faster than sitting on their ass jerking off over intellectual concepts with no action or real self-transformation behind them.

No, it forms attachments to things that will bind you the wheel of rebirth. It also projects the I to an external source, making it impossible to achieve not-I, since the worshiper is always personalized in the mind of his god.

pt 1/2
When the five holy ones had taken their places all the Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, holy monks, arhats, protectors,
bhiksus, lay people, deities and immortals from every cave and every mountain, great gods, Ding and Jia
gods, duty gods, guardians, local deities, and all teachers and immortals who had achieved the Way−−all of
whom had originally come to hear the preaching−−resumed their own places. Just look at it:
The coloured mists surround the Vulture Peak;
Auspicious clouds are massed in the world of bliss.
Golden dragons lie at peace,
Jade tigers all are quiet.
Black hares come and go at will;
Tortoises and snakes coil all around.
Phoenixes red and green are in high spirits;
Happy the dark apes and white deer.
Throughout the year amazing flowers bloom;
Immortal fruit grows in all four seasons.
Lofty pine and ancient juniper,
Blue−green cypress and slender bamboo.
Plums of every color, in blossom or in fruit,
Eternal peaches, sometimes ripe and sometimes new.
A thousand kinds of fruit and flower vie in beauty;
All of the sky is filled with auspicious mists.
They all put their hands together in front of their chests in salutation and recited together:
"Homage to the ancient Dipamkara Buddha.
Homage to Bhaisajya−guru−vaiduryaprabhasa Buddha.
Homage to Vairocana Buddha.
Homage to Ramadhvaja−raja Buddha.
Homage to Maitreya Buddha.
Homage to Amitabha Buddha.
Homage to Amitayus Buddha.
Homage to Buddha Who Leads to the Truth.
Homage to the Imperishable Vajra Buddha.
Homage to Ratnaprabhasa Buddha.
Homage to the Nagaraja Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha of Zealous Goodness.
Homage to the Precious Moonlight Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha Free of Stupidity.
Homage to Varuna Buddha.
Homage to Narayana Buddha.
Homage to Punyapuspa Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha of Meritorious Talent.
Homage to the Good Wandering Buddha.
Homage to the Illustrious Candana−punya Buddha

Homage to the Manidhvaja Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha of the Torch of Wisdom.
Homage to the Buddha of Great Virtues.
Homage to the Brilliant Buddha of Great Compassion.
Homage to the Maitribala−raja Buddha.
Homage to the Wise and Good Leader Buddha.
Homage to the Vyuharaja Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha of Golden Splendor.
Homage to the Buddha of Brilliant Talent
Homage to the Buddha of Wisdom.
Homage to the Buddha of the World's Calm Light.
Homage to the Sunlight and Moonlight Buddha.
Homage to the Sunlight and Moonlight Pearl Buddha.
Homage to the Supreme Buddha King of the Banner of Wisdom.
Homage to the Sughosa Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha of the Banner of Unceasing Radiance.
Homage to the Buddha of the World−watching Lamp.
Homage to the Supreme Dhanna King Buddha.
Homage to the Buddha of Sumeru Light.
Homage to the Buddha Prajnabala King.
Homage to the Brilliant Buddha of the Golden sea.
Homage to the Buddha of Universal Light.
Homage to the Buddha of Illustrious Talent.
Homage to Candana−punya Achievement Buddha.
Homage to the Victorious Fighting Buddha.
Homage to the Bodhisattva Guanyin.
Homage to the Bodhisattva Mahasthama.
Homage to the Bodhisattva Manjusri
Homage to the Bodhisattva Samantabhadra.
Homage to the Bodhisattvas of the Ocean of Purity.
Homage to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas of the Lotus Pool Assembly.
Homage to all the Bodhisattvas of the Utterly Blissful Western Heaven.
Homage to the Three Thousand Protector Bodhisattvas.
Homage to the Five Hundred Arhat Bodhisattvas.
Homage to the Bhiksu, Bhiksuni, Upasaka and Upasaka Bodhisattvas.
Homage to the Bodhisattvas of the Boundless Dharma.
Homage to the Holy Vajra Bodhisattvas.
Homage to the Altar−cleansing Bodhisattva.
Homage to the Golden Arhat Bodhisattva of the Eight Treasures.
Homage to the Bodhisattva Heavenly Dragon of Eight Classes of Being.

Thus it is that all the Buddhas of every world
Are willing with this achievement
To adorn the Pure Land of the Buddha.
Above we can repay the fourfold kindness,
Below we save those suffering in the three paths of life.
Let anyone who sees or hears
Cherish the enlightened mind.
May all be reborn in the Land of Bliss,
To end this present life of retribution.
All the Buddhas of Past, Present and Future in the Ten Regions, all the Bodhisattvas and Mahasattvas,
Maha−prajnaparamita."

Buddhism has a lot of baggage and mythology added to it. It's relatively secular at its foundation. But it was never properly an "atheist" religion.

What you should do is approach philosophies and rleigions in a syncretic manner. "What can they teach me?", instead of focusing on what you disagree with. Take a bit from the Buddhists, a bit from the Christians, a bit from the stoics, a bit from the epicureans, etc.

btw, Stoicism is a Buddhist like European philosophy. It still has its metaphysics though, but most of their advice is useful and secular.

A god can be a good Buddhist, but a good Buddhist should not be worshiping a god. This is like how a Djinn can be a good Muslim, but good Muslims are still prohibited for dealing with Djinn.

Yet good Buddhist venerate not only other Buddhas but gods and saints as well. Really jogs the nog.

Again, no. If you're venerating saints like a Catholic then you're forming ties to the circle of rebirth and are missing the Buddha's main point. To the extent that it's possible to say someone is doing Buddhism wrong, such a person is doing Buddhism wrong. He may as well revert to Hinduism or Traditional Chinese Religion at that point. Or Cathoicisim.

So I assume you consider Mahayana Buddhists to be bad buddhists.

In fairness some sects do hold that view in the same way some Christian sects do not consider other sects truly Christian But to the outside observer, and even many Buddhists, they are both forms of Buddhism

>>Supernatural realms
>>Miracles everywhere
>crazy

Are you retarded? They either exist or they don't; there's nothing fundamentally wrong with them.

I don't know if I'd call them bad Buddhists, I just think they're missing a very important thing Buddha tried to teach them. But who knows, maybe they're right and the Buddha was wrong.

Oh its egocentric.
really the right religion for entitled westerners that rebell against social responsibility.

Why must proddy butthurt polute every thread?
I thought they are doing everything so right.

You seem to fall under the same fallacies western Buddhist do when it comes to asceticism
>Buddha said take a middle path between the radical asceticism of the Brahmin of his day and no asceticism at all
>Pretty much means you need to practice asceticism to be a good Buddhist, sense a middle path between radical asceticism and no asceticism is regular asceticism
Thousands of years later Western Buddhist be like
>Dude why fast or meditate lol Buddha said middle path that clearly means I can continue without any spiritual discipline at all and get Nirvana when I die lol

I think you're being too literal. What matters is that you meditate, being fit makes you better at meditation, so practice moderation. Fetishizing asceticism as it was in Buddha's time as a standard for today is as short sighted as thinking you don't need to do anything at all, what matters is that you have a body that is fit and pure enough to allow you to meditate clearly and effectively.

you miss the part where fasting produce good karma. It's not about being physically Veeky Forums, it's about being spiritually fit.

Well I agree, but if someone doesn't then all I can say is "try it", but if they won't that's that, they can still be good Buddhists even if they're fat lazy slobs, they'll just make slow progress.

Two points:
In your mind, what is the difference between the detachment you espouse here and apathy? Seems to me to the logical conclusion to what you preach should end in suicide. I seriously doubt you feel no emotion towards anything and live a completely sterile.


Did you ever stop to think, and this is something people with religious inclination just know automatically that atheist don't, that venerating/worshiping beings (and thus forging relationships with them) produces good fruits even if the worship/veneration isn't an end in itself?

>I seriously doubt you feel no emotion towards anything and live a completely sterile.
Of course not, but what I try to do is to not dwell on such things, to acknowledge that I feel a certain way, and then to let it pass. I fail almost every time, but I'm only human.

>Did you ever stop to think, and this is something people with religious inclination just know automatically that atheist don't, that venerating/worshiping beings (and thus forging relationships with them) produces good fruits even if the worship/veneration isn't an end in itself?
And wisely investing your bitcoins will make you a rich man, but neither will get you closer to enlightenment.

>but neither will get you closer to enlightenment.
I disagree, and where I think the Buddhist who live in a Buddhist society are correct where you are wrong. Venerating gods/deities does indeed bring one closer to enlightenment as it opens up divine revelations to them.

>The thing I aspire for is unattainable sense I am human
Sounds very Christian.

Christians are taught to be ashamed when they fall short, and to go beg their god or his priest to cast "remove sin" on them. I simply try to do better next time, I don't hold myself to an impossible standard and feel bad that I fall short.

I don't know why you think an ad populem is relevant. If you think worshiping gods is compatible with Buddha's teachings, then your right, but only if you ignore the parts where he rejects such practices. How very Christian.

>What is the Eightfold Noble Path
>hur hur hur if you practice something completely unrelated to that then it's buddhism
You could as well be a secular or christian "buddhist" despite not practicing buddhism then.

>Christians are taught to be ashamed when they fall short
Depends how you interpret it. The whole "loving God who accepts you no matter what" pretty much means you don't need to be ashamed. you should own up to it though.
>and to go beg their god or his priest to cast "remove sin" on them.
While the legalism which has become Church dogma in recent centuries is regrettable, several very prominent philosophers such as Carl Jung or Oswald Spengler saw benefit in confession.
>I don't hold myself to an impossible standard
You literally do. You've resigned yourself to the fact that your ultimate goal is impossible for you, and thus are at a dead end. Ironically enough, one can say you are in a cycle. Fail but don't do anything different and fail again ad nauseam.

Jesus is God, and knows how many electrons are in your body right now.

Nope. It is appointed once for a man to die, and then the judgment.

>let me make quick shitpost in succession and derail the thread
fuck off

Buddhism is, at best, meditative pain relief.

That's it. The Buddha had some words, said some things, died, and stayed dead. No miracles, no claim to divinity, no glimpse into the afterlife.

Just a guy who couldn't stand Hinduism. Or pain.

The "Buddhism is atheist" meme is a fiction fabricated by Western white atheists (mostly liberals) who hate God and hate Christ and who desperately seek "spiritual" meaning outside of Christianity, but who would rather project their own preconceptions onto a foreign religion that they understand nothing about rather than be humble and meet that religion on its own terms. It's classic cultural appropriation and orientialism. I live in Japan and the gaijin "Buddhists" I meet are the most arrogant and inauthentic people you can imagine. They understand nothing of Buddhism or Christianity and they don't want to understand. "Their" "spirituality" is just an ego project for them. If anything, white Buddhists are the ultimate manifestation of Western special snowflake individualism, and have nothing to do with the East. They make me want to puke. Absolutely disgusting people.

>several very prominent philosophers such as Carl Jung or Oswald Spengler saw benefit in confession.
Jung was a fraud and a mystic, Spengler was a crank and a non-scientist. The effects of public shaming rituals are well attested in scientific literature, it's a method of building investment and dependency on an authority figure. The only good it does the dupe is to alleviate the anxiety that the self same religion placed in his heart in the first place with it's psychopathic doctrine of eternal hell. It's equivalent to poisoning someone, then charging them for a cure, or giving someone heroin to make him addicted and dependent on your supply.
> You've resigned yourself to the fact that your ultimate goal is impossible for you
Why would you imagine this? You're really bad at mind reading, maybe you should meditate some more? I fully expect to achieve enlightenment, if not in this life then eventually. The purpose of Buddhism is to move upwards and not downwards, not to leap directly into heaven.

>Admit to not being close at all to achieving enlightenment or coming any closer to it
>But let me tell you the proper way to do Buddhism, all those millions of Buddhist who live in societies that have been practicing Buddhism for thousands of years got it wrong
This is why for people like you, stoicism is more your speed. Stoicism has the ethos you desire (non-attachment, acceptance, minimal acts of piety) without the absolutely complex Buddhist metaphysics and cosmology which is always conveniently ignored.

If all you get from Buddhism is "meditate", then you've got the most important part.

Nobody has ever attained enlightenment.

It's absurd to say that they have, and then gather sticks and get water.

Mediation predates the Buddha.

Joshua 1:8 This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate in it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.

Joshua, 3500 years ago.

Psalm 4:4 Be angry, and do not sin. Meditate within your heart on your bed, and be still. Selah

King David, 3000 years ago.

I've never claimed to have done so, and I've never met anyone who struck me as having done so, either. I'm not going to rule it out, tho.

Even if your date was close to right, Joshua was not written in English.

Does it bother you at all that by being so rude and arrogant, you make people actively despise you and your cult, and serve only to drive people away from your god?

>Why would you imagine this?
Because you said it here
> I fail almost every time, but I'm only human.
The funny thing is that unlike Christianity, where your failing is rendered moot by a loving God and purgatory (so long as you are sincere), your atheistic stance ensures that you have no reason to believe your constant failings will magically work out for you in the long run. Who's to say you will reincarnate into a higher state after you die? You very well might fall into a lower state, not nearly as enlightened as you imagine yourself to be.

>> I fail almost every time, but I'm only human.
ALMOST every time. Sometimes, i succeed. One step closer.
>Who's to say you will reincarnate into a higher state after you die? You very well might fall into a lower state, not nearly as enlightened as you imagine yourself to be.
So? One life, a million billion lives, what difference does it make? You, on the other hand, imagine yourself saved and so no longer seek wisdom. I may make it before you yet, brother.

Christian falseflagger

>ALMOST every time. Sometimes, i succeed. One step closer.
Sounds more like you're on the Samsaric hamster wheel.
>You, on the other hand, imagine yourself saved and so no longer seek wisdom.
Nowhere did I imagine myself saved and no longer seeking wisdom, or even claim to be Christian. I merely presented actual Christian theology as opposed to the caricature your type is so fond of. Perhaps your search for wisdom will one day bring you to Wisdom.

I am a Christian and you only thought I was false flagging because you can't read.

>You, on the other hand, imagine yourself saved and so no longer seek wisdom.
didn't you just say
>I fully expect to achieve enlightenment, if not in this life then eventually.
aka you will be trapped in a Samsaric cycle. You come off as prideful, dismissive and unwilling to respect dharma in favor of worshiping yourself.

Still doesn't make your post less stupid
>hur hur if you are white and not christian then you must HATE jesus
That's stupid, not that you are wrong about most western buddhists but what a stupid generalization to make about all western people who could be attracted to another religion than christianism.

You don't need to go to Japan to experience how western bhudists are just some narcistic hippie fags they seek a way to declare themselves as over others because they are sooo alternative and special.
We have this abominations in Germany in some places too and I am very sure Shartia is full of such scumm.

Are you sure to not just be triggered by non-christian whites?

Your butthurt tells me that I'm right about you at least.

Not all white people are christians, get over it.

Who cares what religion a narcist follows he is just a person that put himself over everything.

A byproduct of modernity. A child that never developed a personality.

Sure but would you say the same thing for someone more "serious" or you will still complain about modernism, narcissism and orientalism if someone's white is not a christian?

Not him, but a white person without Jesus is lower than the darkest African pagan. At least the black gentleman biting the head off a chicken has an excuse. The whiteboy in skinny jeans and dreadlocks sipping a latte and adjusting his crystals in a cafe nextdoor to a church, his blood is upon his head. Not triggered. Just disappointed. Apostates and "post-Christian" are worse than heathens. Always have been, always will be. Race isn't much of a factor but it's a handy signifier of how far someone has fallen from who they should be.

I am German. The term "white" is a shart term not common here.

We don't have race identities.

> would you say the same thing for someone more "serious"
For someone who more seriously worships his own ego in his self centered world view?

You have to be more exact.

You've only furnished my original argument with an example.

Because there is no a reason why when you read shit like that?

Like a serious and orthodox european follower of a non-christian religion.

No idea, never met such a person.

Does shart christianity count as non-christian? Well for me it is the same way foreign as Bhuddists or African tree worship.
Well as much as I dislike those shartism, at least the people that attend there are very nice and down to earth.

Fine, it's not just a butthurt "christian thinking they own the white race" thing then.

I dont think they would see it that way, though my understanding is that being enlightened does not make one all knowing.

Christianity owns all races.

ITT

youtu.be/35QAyctRU_E

>Do you have any children?
>No.
>Thank God.

Another mentally ill /int/estinal worm.

>Buddhism
>achieving personal happiness
Buddhism is, like Gnosticism et hoc genus omne, an instruction on how to die for good. If only the atheists took that part to heart and would die for good as well.

Is atheism the bottom of the barrel trash of all beliefs (or lack thereof)?

>they understand nothing about rather than be humble and meet that religion on its own term
Which in large has a lot to do with the fact that the first Western Writers and translators believed there was a divide between the religious and philosophical aspects to it.

> If anything, white Buddhists are the ultimate manifestation of Western special snowflake individualism, and have nothing to do with the East. They make me want to puke. Absolutely disgusting people.
I think you are letting your own anecdotes corrupt and poison yourself just as much as those athiests or pagans who get poisoned against Christianity due to their experience with groups like Mormons, JW and Pentacostals.

Westerners on the whole have provided an invaluable service to Buddhism and have been a driving force in scholarship and the examination of questions such as transmission and the divide between cultural traditions and Buddhist ones.

Likewise they have been an asset in revitalizing groups like the Kammaṭṭhāna Forest Tradition in Thailand which have cut back on a lot of non Buddhist traditions and behaviour.

prayer, predated Christianity yet would you say the pagans perfected it?

>Pretty accurate assessment of Buddhist attitudes imho.
Only if you're looking at it from a superficial "second" glance view. Buddha acknowledges gods, as a product of the mind. Both Pali canon and Mahayana sutra points this out.

Yet for those who want affirmation of Gods in Buddhism, they will ignore the nuances. For those who want "atheism" in Buddhism, they will find "they're products of the mind" and believe Buddhism advocates atheism.

So where does that leave us if not atheism or theism? Buddha was never the one to push atheist agenda or theistic agenda. Both views are seen as wrong views by Buddha. The proper view is mental conditions are not to be belittled as they are what constitutes reality to ordinary people. What should however be understood is to understand how mental phenomena are created and rewire them properly. This means claims of certain states of existence like "atheism" and "theism" are all mental formations that need to be purified.

I would suggest a quick read into Dhammapada to get a gist of what Buddha is talking about. If nothing else, then the first verse should be enough to get a grasp of this idea(however the whole book is a gold mine for digesting the core subtle ideas).

buddhism is hard to grasp for westerners because they come from a culture of a creator god. a buddha is not a creator god. a buddha is a perfect being. everybody can become a buddha. nobody made you, you alone create yourself. Faith is important in buddhism because if your teacher tells you 1+1 is 2, you have to believe him until you can verify it yourself and thus understand it.