Hi Veeky Forums

You're supposed to eat 1g per lb on lean body mass, you're about 40% bf at that weight, so count off all the fat!

listen to this guy. You just need to lose weight and not worry about aesthetics and going to the process of setting strict macros for a physique that most of the young demo here. Not to discourage you from taking an effort to try but first focus on staying healthy for your kids.

Hilarious.
Yeah, I mean, I would like to get toned and shit, but I'm not after a 6 pack. Having nice arms would be cool. Sucks to know that even after I lose the weight, I'll STILL never be comfortable at a public pool taking my shirt off. Not letting that discourage me, though.

This makes WAY more sense. Thank you.

Lyle Mcdonald bodyrecomposition.com/a-guide-to-flexible-dieting/

Read the book. Live it.

>I'll STILL never be comfortable at a public pool taking my shirt off. Not letting that discourage me, though.

No. its all about time, yes your skin would get all loose and flappy once your reach your goal weight but in time it should return to normal all tightened up, its just it would take years

Are you saying that at my age, I'm basically too old to get ripped? Or to not worry about it until I'm not a fatass anymore?

I have heard mixed reports on this. Even with the fact that I've been fat for so long, you still think the skin will eventually tighten again?

No. You're over the point of no return. At this point focus on getting healthier. You'll still look better than before but that shouldn't be your goal.

>I'm basically too old to get ripped? Or to not worry about it until I'm not a fatass anymore?

A little bit of both.

You're not too old to get ripped, there are 70 yr olds more ripped than half the people here, you just have to set your priorities straight, training to get ripped would take time and effort, time that you could have spent with your kids instead.

So when you reach your goal bodyweight, you decide, its all up to you, just balance your things out, and yes I do think that it could still get tighter

>How in the everloving fuck am I supposed to eat 324g of protein a day
You aren't. If you lift weights all you need is 1.45g per kg of LEAN MASS. So if you're 147kg and 40%BF then 0.6*147*1.45= 128g of protein per day. 125g should work fine too.

Similarly you want about 1.1g of fats per kg of LEAN MASS. Assumin 40%BF at 147kg that's 97g of fat per day - round up to a 100g. About 30/40/30 proportion of saturated/monounsaturated/polyunsaturated works well.

125g of protein = 500kcal
100g of fat = 900kcal
Total: 1400kcal P+F.
Fill the rest of your allowance up with carbs.

Alternatively you could eat about half the amount of fat (50g) and then it's 950kcal for P&F + carbs to calorie limit. But that is only sustainable until you get out of the obese range - your body needs the fat.

This makes perfect sense. Thank you.

Thanks man. I don't want to be (insert name of bodybuilder guy here). Like I said, I'd just like to have some muscle tone and not look flabby. I know that particular goal is at least two years away, and I need to lose the weight first.

Thanks again for your input.

One more question - since I'm such a fatty, can I cut more than 500 calories per day?

tdeecalculator.net says my maint. is 2730, but I'm comfortable eating 1700. Is cutting 1000 calories a day too much? I've heard starvation mode is a myth in some places, and in other places people take it very seriously.

Can you eat all the protein in one sitting? Or does the body only metabolize certain quantity of protein and store the rest as fat?

Forgot to say:

> About 30/40/30 proportion of saturated/monounsaturated/polyunsaturated works well.
No need to obsess over this, as long as you don't wolf down big-macs and cinnamon-rolls all day you'll probably be in the right ball-park. Just make sure to include some sources of healthy fats (fish, olive oil, flax oil, avocado, nuts etc.) in your diet and you're probably golden. As far as omega-3 and 6 are concerned: you are probably getting enough omega-6 if you eat the foods I mentioned, omega-3 probably too but you can get some fish oil caps if you want to make sure.

As far as vitamin and minerals go: you can get away with a multi complex to just fill out any potential gaps that arise due to lowered caloric intake. Lots of people will tell you that they are useless due to "abysmal" absorption rates: but it's a lot cheaper and practical than downing half a dozen different vitamin and mineral pills and the absorption rates are only about 5-25% lower as long as you eat some fats before you take them.

Also, looking at your stats - I'd say you're closer to 45-50% BF than 40% if you account for the large amounts of interstitial fat distorting the numbers. Be prepared to a lot of variance day-to-day in your weight, especially if you lift: for me I get as much as 1-5% weight fluctuation due to glycogen, water and bowel contents when I play around with my calorie intake. Just measure yourself three days in a row around the same time and average it out.

Sure if you think you can handle it. But that's one less meal and it might kinda suck. I ate at an average 750 cal a day for two weeks. Only 3 of those days really sucked since I sub carbs for lean protein and fat instead of carbs. Got some magnesium in me and a bit of sodium. Did alright and I had to eventually force myself to eat

The body can only metabolize a couple grams of protein per hour - in your case probably around 5g/h. (125/24 = 5.2g)

But that means shit all because you have large buffers in your system - stomach contents, linings of the guts, liver, blood levels, muscle. They store all the "excess" until it can be put to use. Otherwise we would have died out a long time ago as a species.

You can eat it all at once and maybe only take a 5-10% hit in efficiency. If you eat it over at least 2 or 3 meals that should give 99% efficiency over eating 4,5,6 - whatever times per day. Make sure to eat some carbs with or just before your protein, insulin is one hell of a hormone - you probably have terrible insulin resistance, but it still helps.

You can go for 1.6g/kilo bodyweight actually, which is reportedly what OLY coaches reccommend. I've been roughly on that since I started lifting.

Oh and your body slows down digestion if you eat a titanic amount of protein at once to make sure it absorbs it all since the enzymes that break down and transport protein in the form of amino acids are limited. So another reason to eat it over 2 or 3 meals is so you avoid constipation.

The 1.6g/ kilogram of total mass assumes a body-fat of around 10% so it comes out to the same as 1.45g/ kilogram of lean mass.

1.6*0.9 = 1.45

I just ordered calipers from amazon. Also, the sticky said the kirkland signature brand of fish oil was a good deal, so I'm going to pick some up this weekend. Thank you for all of your input, you obviously know what you're talking about and I appreciate it.

I've been doing like 1500-1700 calories every day and it hasn't really bugged me. Like I said, I'm doing 16/8 IF, so I am skipping a meal - breakfast. I think 750 is a bit too extreme for me at this point, but that is impressive.

Yeah, my dad has type II diabetes, and I'm doing this in part to try and make sure I don't get it as well.

>I just ordered calipers from amazon.
Not bad to have in the house, especially since they're usually cheap. But they are less accurate than the trained eye and a couple pokes and prods. Especially if you're in the extreme range ie. obese or malnourished. Plus they don't measure interstitial/visceral fat (the stuff around your organs and marbled trough your musculature) - which is deadly, one of the reasons why men suffer from more cardio-vascular problems than women who store more fat as subcutaneous (directly under the skin.) Not even DEXA scans are good at accounting for that - which is why indicators such as FFMI and calipers are only reasonably accurate at around 8-15% body-fat.

Yea breakfast is so overrated lol

Hmm, good to know. I guess I'll just be content with a guess at this point.

It actually is.

Another thing OP, if you aren't bored with reading this thread: Later on you might want to watch out for your maximal rate of lipid metabolization.

Simplified: your body can only metabolize your fat stores at a relatively fixed rate. For most people it is around 65-75kcal/kg of fat/day. So if you are 50%BF at 147kg, that comes out to 73,5kg of fat, times 65kcal/kg/day that comes out to 4.777,5kcal of energy that your body can get from your fat stores a day. If your daily deficit goes above that number then your body will start burning trough muscle at an alarming rate (you will lose some muscle regardless, but at that point it goes into overdrive.) This is one of the mechanisms that people collectively call "starvation response" - although people have huge misconceptions about the whole deal.

As you can see 4.777,5kcal is a huge number and you don't need to worry about it now. But once you get down to, say, 30% BF (assuming an FFMI of around 20 ie. ~66kg of lean mass:) 66/0.75 = 88kg BW, 88-66 = 22kg of fat, 22*65 = 1430kcal max deficit. So yeah, that you can undershoot.

Awesome point. I'm going to find a way to graph this in excel and mix in a tdee graph for various weights to make sure I'm not hitting this point.

Thanks,

Well, there is a couple ways to pretty accurately measure your BF% as an obese person: metabolic measuring + DEXA/hydro-static weighing + the assessment of a doctor who has experience in this. Or maybe a combination of just two of those. But that's pretty expensive and with the large margins you can deal in (see ) there is no need for that.

You do definitely want to measure your waist circumference every-time you measure yourself though. That is an important piece of information that can be used to make pretty decent estimations based on formulas that were formulated using general population data.

Alternately, just go for an autopsy - the only method that guarantees a margin of error of less than 1%. Although people complain that it's a tad invasive.

kek.

I will start measuring and tracking my waist line, saw that in the sticky as well I believe.

Is there a calculator that takes waistline circumference into account?

>calculator.net/army-body-fat-calculator.html
But again, that approximate and I'm not sure how well it scales to obese people - but should still be good enough for most purposes if a government uses it.

>fitlifesf.com/2011/01/how-to-take-body-measurements/
A quick guide on how to take the measurement.

>strongerbyscience.com/your-drug-free-muscle-and-strength-potential-part-1/
You might also find this useful for reference. The whole site is gold and thoroughly sourced.

>exrx.net/Nutrition/Substrates.html
This is a good read if you really want to nerd out. Again the whole site is chock full of great information.

>toned

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>Sucks to know that even after I lose the weight, I'll STILL never be comfortable at a public pool taking my shirt off. Not letting that discourage me, though.
You mean due to loose skin? I was close to your weight and have absolutely zero stretch marks. The same height as you, went form 135kg to 85kg. And I'm a smoker, which is murder on your skin due to interference with collagen synthesis. And there is always surgery if all else fails.

As far as building muscle goes: right now you probably have so fucked hormone levels due to obesity: insulin resistance, low testosterone and high estrogen due to aromatization (which is a process that converts testosterone into estrogen and gets faster the more fat you have) that building muscle is a fools errand (if you want to still lose fat at a decent rate.) At best you can lift to minimize muscle loss and maybe make some small noob gains. Don't worry, though, once you get down to a normal weight and your hormones balance out - building a decent amount of muscle (by the standards of normal people, not Veeky Forums) takes only about 6-12 months.

Awesome, I have been totally geeking on this stuff. Thanks for the links.

Sorry, I didn't know this was a trigger. I'm a normie when it comes to fitness.

How old are you?

I'd love to not have loose skin

Muscle tone is only relevant in neurological conditions. What people mean when they say that is actually muscle definition - which you get by having appreciable muscle and low bf%.

>How old are you?
27. I was obese from age 19 to 24. So yeah: being relatively young, not having been fat during my childhood or teens and having 8'' wrists is probably the main reason why I don't have any stretchmarks. But I also smoke and used to drink a lot so it evens out.

Point is, you never know if or to what level you'll have them until you lose the fat. But as long as you can see your dick while standing, it probably won't be as bad as you think.

>But as long as you can see your dick while standing
This is assuming, of course, that you are at least average at around 7'' flaccid.

I'm a grower, not a shower. How fucked am I?

Fuck mate that changes everything.

All my previous posts were assuming you're a shower, disregard it all.

But srs, you know what I mean - there is being obese and there is being a human glob. Only globs are guaranteed truly disgusting levels of loose skin. You might end up anywhere from none at all to a tolerable amount that will get better with time - unless you're completely genetically fucked.

Surprisingly, with as fat as I am, I have very little stretch marks. Is this a good thing?

I'm def. not glob status. I bought a bike the other day and after a few short trips to the park close to our house I went on one of my wife's "normal" rides to a park 3 miles away, so 6 miles total. It wasn't easy on the way back, but I didn't have to call an uber either.

Man don't even worry about the protein right now the fact that you're monitoring calories and being restrictive is amazing. You need to worry about micro nutrients and just hitting the calories. You'll worry about that stuff down the road your not hitting protein levels vs. losing the weight is more important.

>Surprisingly, with as fat as I am, I have very little stretch marks.
At your weight that is expected with slow fat gain.

Again, no way to know until you try -simply too many factors. But I'm 90% sure your skin will be a bit flabby (but not hanging off you or anything) and that it will get a lot tighter in a year or two. If you don't start yo-yoing once you reach your goal weight I doubt anyone will notice it after a year or two, especially if you start lifting once you get there.

Don't smoke, don't drink in excess, no drugs, don't utterly starve yourself, drink plenty of water, get in enough micro-nutrients and that will help. But it's, in large part, down to genetics.

No offense, but that's terrible advice. Sparing muscle is important to keep weight loss on track. Sure, he probably doesn't need as much as a weight-lifter. But still.

>"1g per lb of body weight."

nonononononono

ignore all morons who say that shit

it's "1g per lb of LEAN BODY MASS"

your LBM is probably around 160 lbs, so eat 160g of protein each day

Hop over to Veeky Forums and learn how to cook.

Cooking is going to become central to your life if you want to be healthy, so you might as well turn it into a family activity. Teach your kids macros and shit while you go along. Grab a cheapo grill for $80 and learn how to cook your own meats.

Eating out shouldn't be more than once a week.

I'm actually a good cook already, just never was concerned about fitness/overeating.

My problem is packaged shit, oreos, ice cream.

But I can grill a Filet that tastes just as good as Ruth's Chris.

Also, my wife cooks, and she's good at it. Been making me healthy shit recently. I hate her for being able to eat whatever she wants and stay skinny.

I gained sympathy weight for both pregnancies. Difference is, she lost hers, and I never did.

>I hate her for being able to eat whatever she wants and stay skinny.
>eat whatever she wants
>stay skinny
sjišćhjsfpojmjža-žqwpoč

>I'm actually a good cook already

Half the battle is pretty much over then. Most fatties can't cook for themselves.

>My problem is packaged shit, oreos, ice cream.

I had the same problem. The only thing that worked for me was finding low-carb replacements.

A great replacement for chocolate and vanilla snacks is to pick up some protein powder (ON flavors taste the best IMO), unsweetened almond milk, then mix it in one of those magic bullet blenders. It's not quite a milkshake, but it will calm your sweet tooth enough that you can make rational decisions again. "Extreme milk chocolate" is the best flavor hands down.

Get used to chewing gum by the way. Trident makes a lot of no-sugar flavors: mango and cinnamon are pretty good.