Why are soviets seen as more barbaric than nazis when they were far less brutal?

>they provided national autonomy to everyone more than anybody else.
During Lenin's era.

The Soviets staid for 40 years. That's why.

this, in the end Soviets won

All the way till the end

Soviets are seen as more barbaric (rape, murderer, alcoholism and so on), the Nazis are seen as more cold and ruthless.

WTF are you talking about the soldiers were encouraged to fucking rape people

Oh, let's just ignore those Russian settlers in Donetsk, Baltic countries or Kaliningrad.

Proof?

[Citation needed]

lmao

soviets had more than 40 years to catch up with nazis
of course they didn't have plans to genocide any countries but they essentially kept them as slaves and exploited them

Why? Because that's what people who saw both armies generally said.

which is bullshit because krauts raped too

The Soviet Army had one of the strictest laws against marauding among the powers involved that were enforced, in contrast with the German troops who were absolved of any legal responsibility for conduct with the locals on the Eastern Front.
Kaliningrad is a special case. And what about the rest of them? The Soviet Union promoted national language and culture of the Baltic states as their main one in their region. The population of the Baltic peopels increased during the so called genocide, and it sharply declines now.

They were genociding their own minorities in the 30s though. They were moral equivalent of the Nazis in every sense.

So, what minority was genocided then?

>And what about the rest of them?
Is your head filled with vata?

>Kaliningrad is a special case
No. It was still area that got depopulated and repopulated with Russian settlers.

>The Soviet Union promoted national language and culture of the Baltic states as their main one in their region
Sure, that explains why Russian are 1/3 of Estonia's population.

whites

Ukrainians

In b4 usual talking points
>Kulaks had it coming desu
>Holodomor is western lies, just like the Holohoax
>Ukraine is Rossiya not minority

>why are soviets seen as more barbaric than nazis when they were far less brutal?

I believe because the Soviets got away with it and even today there's a huge deal of denial on the part of Russians

>rich peasants burn their crops
>poor peasants starve
>"ITS STALINS FAULT! HE TOTALLY PLANNED THIS!"

>No. It was still area that got depopulated and repopulated with Russian settlers.
Sure, so what?
>Sure, that explains why Russian are 1/3 of Estonia's population.
Estonia was part of Russia for a longer time than it existed as an entity. How did the number of Estonians themselves changed, I wonder? Did it decrease during the Soviet control? Did it increase during the independent period?

Was being genocided. Germans, Poles, Koreans, Greeks and others but Poles suffered the most between 111k-200k victims.

>why are soviets seen as more barbaric than nazis
They aren't, except by a small minority of people.

Not so small but as years pass more and more people remembering WWII die out so in this case you might be right.

>this is what leftypol mutts actually believe

Number of Ukrainians:
1922: 26 230 000
1930: 29 617 000
1941: 41 965 000
1944: 33 534 000
1989: 51 706 700
2016: 42 760 500

So, as we can clearly seen, Ukrainians were genocided by the Germans and by the Post-soviet Government.

>Sure, so what?
It just negates your point, totally irrelevant. Sorry I mentioned that.

>Estonia was part of Russia for a longer time than it existed as an entity
Oh boy, you are not even Russian. At least read the fucking wiki so you get some basic knowledge about the subject you are talking about.

>Did it decrease during the Soviet control?
1934: 992,520
1989: 963,281

Most memoirs I'm familiar with state that Soviet army was indeed more brutal and fearsome. Basically peasants from Siberia who didn't know what toilet was. But I usually just say that both were just as bad. Both regimes were eqully evil that is certain.

>why are soviets seen as more barbaric than nazis
By who?

>when they were far less brutal
By what standard?
I can't understand why people defend the URSS. Stalin did things that Putin can only dream about and people treat him like a paragon of the left just because people don't want to admit how hypocritical and counterproductive the Soviets really were

Nice unsourced bullshit

Also,
>trusting Soviet "statistics"

>Both regimes were eqully evil that is certain.

>Oh boy, you are not even Russian. At least read the fucking wiki so you get some basic knowledge about the subject you are talking about.
There was no Estonian nation before 19th century, though. The duchy of Estland became part of Russia in 1720.

the only reason why people think soviet army was nazi tier is because the war was recent and well documented
stuff like pillaging, raping and killing is standard war business

Are you a commie or a nazi? Which version of a braindead moron are you?

>By who?
most of this board
>By what standard?
they didn't try to genocide any ethnic group

not saying they were good guys because obviously Stalin was a retard

How were they more barbaric? Because they raped, pillaged and murdered their way across Europe? Sure that's bad but that's what happens in wartime, it's been that way for centuries. I don't hold Nazis accountable for doing the same shit, only for deliberately genociding entire populations. That's something a bit different and not normal for war.

Neither, but nice tactic, claiming that you walk the middle of the road (which is always correct), while those who disagree are extremists.

>I don't hold Nazis accountable for doing the same shit, only for deliberately genociding entire populations.
you know that they were the ones to start this right

they killed MILLIONS

>trusting Soviet "statistics"
>Not trusting universally accepted and confirmed statistics.

...irrelevant, I was pointing out at your total ignorance of history of Russian minority in Estonia.

[hint: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Estonia; Population of Estonia by ethnic group 1897–2017]

Funny thing how numbers of Estonians grew during the Soviet "Genocide", and how you decline on your own, isn't it?

Because both regimes were doing the same things, commited the same kind of war crimes and it was all an official order from the government. I've heard both versions with either Soviets or Germans being the worst and I'm going with that as neither country gave me any reason to call it lesser evil. And both were conspiring together to even make WWII possible.

btw hillarious that you claim that USSR provided right of self-determination to the Estonian nation, whilst denying them the right yourself.

>The Soviet Army had one of the strictest laws against marauding among the powers involved that were enforced, in contrast with the German troops who were absolved of any legal responsibility for conduct with the locals on the Eastern Front.

And how am I denying it by pointing it out?

Reminds me of a document in a museum issued for Polish women so that the Soviet soldiers wouldn't rape them. I don't think it was very effective judging from the statistics of the war crimes in Poland near the end of WWII and after it.

wtf? I alredy dropped the numbers proving otherwise ().

Are you a bot? What do you feel when someone hurts you?

>wtf? I alredy dropped the numbers proving otherwise
Wow! And you aren't concerned that there was some insignificant event during 1941-1945 at all?
census 1959: 892,653
census 1989: 963,281
census 2011: 902,547

Because normal Germans didn't massacre civilians it was only foreign divisions filled with mentally ill people that massacred civilians, just like in china only Koreans and Philippines killed civilians while true Japanese didn't.

Are you implying it was the Germans that dropped Estonian population? That would be pretty dumb.

>Because both regimes were doing the same things, commited the same kind of war crimes and it was all an official order from the government.
Different things, done on different scale for different goals

Why are you pretending that the middle of the road is somehow the "rational, generally accepted opinion". We both know how it is outside of this forum and a few small countries close to Russia.

>"Kill them all men, old men, Children, and women after you have amused yourself with them. Kill, nothing in Germany is guiltless. Neither the living, nor the yet unborn. Break the racial pride of the German women take her as your legitimate booty. Kill, you brave Soldiers of the victorious Soviet army!"

What did he mean by this?

Feel pretty bad for the soviet veterans the way their command treated them and they dont hold nearly the status their american counterparts do.

In countries that actually witnessed at least one passing of the Red Army yes.

Nothing, he never said that. Please stop posting neo-Nazi propaganda.

>How many Poles were in Wermacht?
>How many Poles were in Red Army?

but he should have

What statistics. According to the IPN the Soviets killed at least 150.000 Poles during the war, Germans on the other hand 2.7 million ethnic Poles and 2.9 million Polish Jews. The difference between both regimes is staggering. After the war some 2000-3000 Poles died as a result of oppressive policies of the new stalinist regime.

What he said was even worse.
>Mы знaeм вce. Mы пoмним вce. Mы пoняли: нeмцы нe люди. Oтнынe cлoвo «нeмeц» для нac caмoe cтpaшнoe пpoклятьe. Oтнынe cлoвo «нeмeц» paзpяжaeт pyжьe. He бyдeм гoвopить. He бyдeм вoзмyщaтьcя. Бyдeм yбивaть. Ecли ты нe yбил зa дeнь хoтя бы oднoгo нeмцa, твoй дeнь пpoпaл. Ecли ты дyмaeшь, чтo зa тeбя нeмцa yбьeт твoй coceд, ты нe пoнял yгpoзы. Ecли ты нe yбьeшь нeмцa, нeмeц yбьeт тeбя. Oн вoзьмeт твoих близких и бyдeт мyчить их в cвoeй oкaяннoй Гepмaнии. Ecли ты нe мoжeшь yбить нeмцa пyлeй, yбeй нeмцa штыкoм.

But this is not worse. Here he's talking about killing Germans for what they did to the Soviet people. In the manipulated version he calls for raping German women and murder German kids.

>Kill German Soldiers without rest or remorse, as they would torture and kill your kin otherwise
Yep. Much worse.

Why not admit that they were both bad?

doesnt even mention children just says to kill nazis with bullets and if you can't then stab them to death

I doin't know about the numbers but Poles in Wermacht were recruited from people of German origin and Poles in the Red Army were people who lived in the USSR before the war and survived the 30s purges

This was a flyer given to the Soviet soldiers that participated in the invasion of Königsberg. Stop being a faggot bolshevik apologist.

You're talking about the raw numbers while I'm talking about the practices. Both Germans and Soviets were killing normal people and the officers and other members of the elite. In the case of the USSR we also have to take into account what was going on before the war (NKVD action) and after the war. Fewer Poles lived in the Soviet occupation zone (there were five times as many Poles living in the German zone if I remember) but that didn't stop Soviets and Germans from cooperating together in their extermination programs. Germany relied on Soviet alliance after Poland refused to cooperate.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo–NKVD_conferences
Germans accelerated their extermination programs when they started losing while Soviets of course had to focus on the war effort but the war crimes of their soldiers continued (worse than Germans according to many) as Stalin was now focused not on elimination of Polish civilians suspected of being "fifth column" but politicians and soldiers who survived German occupation.
And I've had this discussion a number of times with a certain Soviet apologist. It might be you.

Maybe it has something to do with the Cold War and repercussions of 40+ years of propaganda

Source?

>why are soviets seen as more barbaric than nazis when they were far less brutal?
??? By whom?
>inb4 by /pol/
Nobody actually cares about what they think irl.

>You're talking about the raw numbers while I'm talking about the practices.
Raw numbers are the only remotely objective measure here.

You can have your feels, but reals say almost 20:1 in favour of Germans.

>Fewer Poles lived in the Soviet occupation zone
And after the war the entire country was occupied by the Soviets. I don't see your point.

>You're talking about the raw numbers while I'm talking about the practices
Was Gestapo prison better than NKVD prison? Because I'm sure the Germans killed much more Poles than the MBP, UB and NKVD.

>Soviet apologist
I'm not a Soviet apologist.

By many people who lived through it.

Soviets were actually better at torture. Gestapo was the student here.

Nice source

Thanks.

From a swedish book abort The invasion ofta königsberg.

Everything's clear now.

I can't see shit

Just joking of course but that aside sometimes I think I'd like to see flags of the posters if only to see who's being a commie/nazi bitch.

Reupload.

>What he said was even worse.
Not really. I'm a native Russian speaker, although my Russian is rusty because I don't live in Russia. The quote in your post can be translated roughly as follows:
"We know everything. We remember everything. We have come to understand: Germans are not people. From now on, the word "German" for us is the most terrible curse-word. From now on, the word "German" discharges the rifle. We will not speak. We will not resent. We will kill. If you have not killed at least one German in a day, your day has been wasted. If you think that your neighbor will kill a German for you, you don't understand the danger. If you don't kill the German, the German will kill you. He will take your nearest and will torment them in his accursed Germany. If you cannot kill the German with a bullet, kill the German with a bayonet."

>muh anecdotes from literally who
>boo hoo taking muh land for the collective is the same as getting your entire village and family exterminated on "racial" grounds
>why are the soviets mad we only killed 20 million civilians in 4 years we dindu nuffin
G*rmanics should've been exterminated with anthrax back in 1944 and the land deindustrialized and salted.

no one can understand this orkish gibberish

>G*rmanics should've been exterminated with anthrax back in 1944 and the land deindustrialized and salted.
Yep. The degermified land should've been donated to the Jews, though. Palestinians did nothing wrong

I bet you're an American because your first thought when you see a land free of vermin is to invite kikes to it

>Döda! Döda! Det finns ingenting hos tyskarna som är oskyldigt, inte levande eller de ofödda! Följ kamrat Stalins instruktioner och krossa för alltid det fascistiska djuret i dess håla. Bryt med våld de tyska kvinnornas rasmässiga högmod! Tag dem som
ett rättmatigt byte!
>Kill! Kill! There is nothing in the Germans who are innocent, not living or the unborn! Follow the instructions of Comrade Stalin and crush the fascist animal in its hole forever. Break with violence the racial pride of the german women! Take her as a legitimate booty!

Google translated it for the lazy ones.

Kikes can fuck off to Madagascar.

>Kill! Kill! There is nothing in the Germans who are innocent, not living or the unborn!
This sentence has been correct ever since the I century.

>random Swedish book
Good source.

This is not a source. We know the original Russian version, there is nothing about breaking racial pride of German women there.