ITT: Reasons to train for strength over aesthetics

You're either breaking down muscle and repairing it or not doing anything at all. Someone explain to me how the whole strength vs hypertrophy/aesthetics training isn't some dumb meme.

football, basketball, hockey, rugby

so basically all of them nerd

E-Even archery?

I like to be able to do shit. I know that sounds real basic but that's just how _I_ am. I always jumped around over bunches or whatever structure there is walking along a side walk and I still do like a little kid at 30.

I wanna be mobile and able to fuck around , not walk like Rich Piana.

>will having a stronger back and stronger arms help my archery?

You could be a fire fighter?

You're looking at it wrong, because a) that's not how hypertrophy is caused and b) it's definitely not a requirement for improving strength.

I like how Ido Portal explains it.

To work for asthetics is to work backwards. The reason we admire asthetics is because they are seen as the ability to push or pull or jump etc. (From a primitive thousands of years of evolution stand point).

If you work at jumping and pulling and pushing etc, the asthetics come second.

Doing a thousand curls give you no range of motion.

God I love Ido Portal.

youtube.com/watch?v=W0Wr7HsylE0

Unless he's super weak, it probably won't. Target archery tends towards quite low draw poundages.

Different story if he's bowhunting.

I like this reason.

OP here with a qs. Won't you get aesthetic to a point with pure strength training anyway? If diet is also on point and your bf is decent?

If you want to join the military

Of course you will. I'm the guy that likes Ido btw. Ido values range of motion, and I like that thought process. What good is being able to lift X weight in perfect form if you can't do anything slightly off kilter.

Basically, training full range of motion should help you vs accidents, like rolling an ankle etc. Because you have done your best to strengthen all the surrounding muscles equally.

He's a bit too new agey, hipster philospher dude for me sometimes so I can see that putting people off, but I do like the idea of valueing strength based movement instead of just strength.

I think that it comes from the (false) idea that strength programming (aside from linear progression programs and the bulgarian method) doesn't have that much volume.
There's also the fact that top level strength athletes look very different from top level body builders, coupled with the need to feel better than someone for SOME reason no matter if it's a correct one.

Its more fun.
With strength training you see the weights you can handle going up, faster, almost immediate results. While for hyperyrophy you have to wait whole bulk/cut cycle to hopefully see change and not lose motivation.

Because I'm actually an athlete, not some insecure roid, body builder fag.

can you show me a comparison?

The Bulgarian method does actually have a fair bit of volume. It's just not immediately obvious because it's spread across a dozen sessions instead of being loaded into a single workout.

You do both.

Google Brian Shaw and then google Kai Greene

Unless you have 10/10 muscle insertions and over six feet and you are able to make money off your body like myself, then there isn't a point to do it.

Or for a fairer comparison, pick one of the jacked 308s (say, Konstantin Konstantinovs) to compare with a bodybuilder. Outside of the openweight guys the top strength competitors usually aren't carrying a lot of fat.

>Outside of the openweight guys the top strength competitors usually aren't carrying a lot of fat.
like who?

You want strongman or powerlifting answers?

At first I started lifting in high school because I was a scrawny 115lb kid. I wanted to lift to look better, get girls, normal shit.

Then as I started climbing higher and higher, I cared less and less of looking good, and more and more of being strong. Squatting lmao3plaet was more important to me than defining my shoulders or chiseling my abs.

doesn't matter, I don't even know the difference. I just want to see a strength athlete that is not fat.

There's no real reason to train for strength over aesthetics unless you actually need it, so unless you work on a farm, own your own land and need to feed your stove with wood, or are on a professional sports team, or enlisted in a military, just go for aesthetics.

Strength is good but if you just want to lift to look good, strength will not help you.

If you want to be able to cut down a hardwood tree and haul it 3km out of the bush on your shoulder back to your house, train for strength.

Or if you want to jump 130lbs of body armor, guns, and explosives for 13-30km a day while bitching and running only on caffeine, dip, and hatred of your superiors.

To pick a name basically at random, Dan Green. Top competitors in the weight classes tend to be reasonably lean just to avoid getting shoved up a class and having to compete against heavier lifters that aren't carrying that fat.

But people tend to focus on the superheavies because they're the most freakshow class and generally they'll be fat since they've got no incentive otherwise.

Look at this list. If their weight class does not have a "+" at the end of it, then that person is going to be pretty lean. It is not advantageous to be fat in a weight class sport. The only people that get to be fat and actually be good are the dudes in the heaviest weight classes.

powerlifting-ipf.com/championships/records.html

Fuck, forgot the list. Powerlifting is the sport where people compete in the squat, bench, and deadlift. Strongman is a sport where you compete in random shit like log presses, car deadlifts, atlas stones, yoke walks, etc.

Konstantinovs has photos of him at competition weight with visible abs
Brian Alsruhe competes in strongman and routinely makes it to nationals and he looks decently aesthetic

Also, he's a SIPBOY!

Also strongman events tend to be for reps in a time interval (eg 100kg dumbbell clean and press for reps in 60 seconds) or heavy as fuck weighted carries (EG 250 pounds in each hand, walk 100 feet in 60 seconds)

so that you can train better for aesthetics

first you get the strength
then you get the aesthetics
then you get the woman

250/hand is pretty damn light for a farmers walk or similar. That's the sort of weight you'd see in local shows for the 90 or 105 guys.

youtube.com/watch?v=v2j2r5MIYWk
>Tavita with a massive 300kg deadlift to break the Oceania raw record for the 120kg class and equal the Commonwealth record. His 765kg total was also a new Oceania raw record. Not bad for a 56 year old lifting in the open category and beating lifters half his age.

wtf?

Has to do with BF%

The fatter you are the more muscle mass you can maintain. This is especially true for nattys.

>so unless you work on a farm
Work on a farm here, lifting is a godsend. If I didn't squat and deadlift I'd be fucked with the unconventional shit I have to do.

Farmers are always strong and tough.

It's rough work pickin stones and pullin teats, but sure as god's got sandals it beats fightin dudes with treasure trails.

What a load of pretentious nonsense

strongerbyscience.com/sarcoplasmic-vs-myofibrillar-hypertrophy/
another "who cares if you have big muscles, I bet you can't do X"

who cares if you can do a bunch of random movements, can you deadlift 545?

see how that works? you get good at what you train for

if i wanted to do dumb shit in a forest somewhere and be all spiritual and retarded i would do ido portal's stupid mewvment bullshit

i want to be bigger and stronger, so i deadlift and bench

Gra ta ta

I'll assume you're thinking about recurve archery. You absolutely need to train core at the gym for stability. Back muscles need to be trained in usual ways AND with a bow because of unusual movements required.
Strength will make a big difference in scores and ability to utilise proper shooting form at high poundages.

be the #1 office jar opener choice for cuties

Waste of trips desu.

The difference is known to anyone who has done sets of 8-12 and sets of 1-5

>I cared less and less of looking good, and more and more of being strong
But why? Looking good has many advantages, being very strong is useless in most cases.

Training for strength is just way more fun desu

Strength is the bridge to aesthetics

Isley Isley Isley, you never learn

>be me
>train for strength
>230 lbs
>4plate squat
>be into bjj
>most guys who train are around 180, probably less
>they continuously get smashed and i wreck them
>complain about how they can't break my posture or balance
>mfw they still talk about their fucking weightcuts

>I can easily beat smaller guys

What are you, a fucking moron? Why do you think weight devisions exist.

For a natural, there is no such thing as strength or aesthetics.

That's just bufoonery being sold to you by completely out of touch gear heads, dumbfucks with less then a month of lifting under their belt, and supplement and "supplement" shills.

To get strong and aesthetic requires that you put weight on the bar and that you work every part of your body in a bodybuilding range to increase mass, build more strength and muscle endurance, and more importantly strengthen ligaments.

Anyone ANYONE who tells you otherwise? Ask them to post their numbers, a picture, and how long they've been lifting.

That will tell you all you need to know.

REASON ENOUGH!
youtube.com/watch?v=rhqneAhyJkI

You live on the same planet with the same species as gilgamesh, and the bible. you think there sint merit in being strong in this world?

Youll still be a more capable person

Bb training is boring in my opinion whereas powerlifting keeps me excited to hit the gym. I don't see why both isn't an option...

and your numbers, pic and how long you've been lifting? just curious, no hate

This both matters and doesn't matter. Of course, for the purposes of testing fighting skill in a competition, weight division is important. But of course, this is because heavier opponents have an advantage not related to skill. It's still an advantage, and in terms of general fighting performance user is dominating because he has focused of strength and skill.

I'm pretty big aesthetics wise, but as a natural not incredibly so. However, after having built up my CNS and fast twitch system over the years, there's nothing more satisfying that blowing a clear roider who is "bigger" than me the fuck out on a lifting set.

Even in the context of a competition, being heavier & stronger is an advantage. In every case that is not a competition, being heavier & stronger is an advantage.

>Even in the context of a competition, being heavier & stronger is an advantage
+ for absolute.

derp

>lanklet chad trying to fight you for shits n giggles
>wrists fold like lawn chairs when he shoves you
>deadpan punch his shoulder
>dislocates instantly
>punch him hard enough in the face to cave his skull in
>skull shards embed in his eye
>autistic shrieks while writhing in pain
>go about day

>nothing more satisfying than blowing a clear roider
Woah

It's hard to train for aesthetics without getting stronger. The inverse is not true

>bitch press and diddylift makes you strong

FUCKING retard

>because im actually an athlete
cringe

strength + low bf% == aesthetics

Don't fall for the >hurr durr 8-12 range meme

The only time you should be going 8-12 range reps is for single muscle movements. No more than 5 reps for compounds

Different exercise selection.

Because I want to be one of those guys that benches twice his bodyweight.

Athlete's don't train for pure strength alone either.

Unless you're a powerlifter, a terrible one who places horribly at that.

I do 6 reps for main lifts and 8-12 for all accessories, which is basically everything after my first two main lifts. Take that fgt.

Literally everyone I know irl who is strong and not a fat fuck is aesthetic

>Work on a farm here, lifting is a godsend. If I didn't squat and deadlift I'd be fucked with the unconventional shit I have to do.

You're a lying faggot.

>Don't fall for the >hurr durr 8-12 range meme
>
>The only time you should be going 8-12 range reps is for single muscle movements
The only time to do hypertrophy is with isolation after compounds though... This is common knowledge.

rich is probably 10 times as flexible as you tho

If you're a natural, training for strength, espescially once you get out of the "any goddamned thing works" safe range will hit a brick wall that nothing you will ever do will allow you to surpass UNLESS you work on every fucking muscle in your body and build a strength endurance base and even musculature.

You won't find strongmen of old with uneven musculature. You'll find fat ones sure, but once that fat melts they'll look beast mode.

With the wide use of drugs people became absolutely convinced that it was one or the other. That lifting for the natural is either an all or nothing strength or aesthetics thing. When it is absolutely untrue and to even pretend otherwise is utterly ridiculous.

You can gain strength in the 8-12 range as well. All that matters is putting weight on the bar.

Red pill me on this, why shouldn't I do 8-12 compounds?

Yeah. When you see a big guy walking funny it's because of glute pain (daily injections), not because he's inflexible or "muscle bound".

Flexibility+strength training has never been a thing.

The only place you'll find flexible and strong is in the high level non meme-bodybuilders and strongman game where they lift weights and overcome resistance and don't follow the ridiculous dogma that's peddled online.

I'd rather look like I can lift 1000lb and not have to, instead of being able to lift 1000lb and not look like it

Because it won't make you aesthetic. So why do it? You'll lift less. Better to lift heavy so you can add weight quicker.

...
You can lift heavy and get strong in the 8-12 rep range.

So what, you want to ego lift in the 5 rep range because some fucking losers online said so?

So does strength training + hitting low bf really = aesthetics?

>You can lift heavy and get strong in the 8-12 rep range.
Yes but it will take longer. Read the sticky.

do what you wanna do brah

Literally every fucking sport that exists would be benefitted by being strong you retard

Yes and no. Strength training takes a long time to build aesthetics by itself. Hypertrophy programs are a lot quicker but make slower strength gains.

I find a mixture to be best.

Can you give an example of the non linear progression based strength programs you've done?

>non linear progression based strength programs you've done?
What are you talking about? Why wouldn't you add weight to a strength program?

Tennis, golf, squash, baseball, sprinting

After a certain point you can't add weight every workout friendo. You've gotta fuck around with periodization to get stronger, which means generally periods of fuck off high volume followed by periods of fuck off high intensity. Starting strength and the Texas method are not the end all of strength training.

Lmao what?