Who the fuck wrote this load of fucking shite? Is this meant to be a satirical fucking board or something?

>it works

You'll gain all that water weight you lost during keto. Unfortunately you won't gain the muscle you lost from starving yourself of simple carbohydrates as easily. So technically you are right keto does work for weight loss.

The entire sticky could be replaced by three words:

Only Genetics Matter.

>they should rename this board to fucking /fat/

you got that right

Atkins and many lowcarbmeme sites claim you can be in caloric surplus and still lose weight if you keep your carbs under X. Is this bullshit? Where's the catch?
dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet

>be in caloric surplus
>lose weight

Please refer to Lyle Mcdonald, the author of "the Ketogenic Diet" and an expert on the subject

"And this is really my big issue with the whole idea: if low-carbohydrate diets generate a metabolic advantage, it should be measurable with current technology. If it’s not measurable, it either doesn’t exist is far too small to worry about. And all of the theoretical calculations for what should occur don’t change that. Especially when we have much more likely mechanisms for the effect.

The more likely explanation in my mind is that any ‘metabolic advantage’ inherent to low-carbohydrate diets come from the fact that they tend to blunt hunger (and this is especially true in people who are overweight and hyperinsulinemic, people with insulin resistance) and make people eat less.

And even that isn’t guaranteed, people who don’t have their hunger blunted, or who fall into the “I can eat whatever I want as long as it’s low carb” camp and end up overeating calories don’t lose weight or fat at all.

The bottom line in my mind: even if low-carbohydrate diets turn out to have a small metabolic advantage (I remain open to the idea but skeptical based on the data to date), it still comes down to caloric intake."

muscleevo.net/lyle-mcdonald-interview-one/

>smug reaction image

This changes everything!

Caloriefags make the mistake of assuming that every unit of calorific energy us absorbed by the human body, when much of it is excreted unprocessed of it calorific value.

Caloriefags are quite simply retarded.

fad = doesn't work?

interesting, thank you

>Also, this is the first time I have clicked on Veeky Forums

You don't say?

you got a source on that, buddy?

Get all your calories from coca cola, see how it works out for your weight.

>simple carbs grow and preserve muscle

brb eating white bread for gains.

>implying you can live off coca cola

>when much of it is excreted unprocessed of it calorific value
>Nature is wasteful

I bet you believe we can only eat 30g of protein a meal too kek.

It might work, but may not be good for your health.

From the National Health and Medical Research Council in Australia/New Zealand:

"For a given energy intake, increases in the proportion of one macronutrient necessarily involves a decrease in the proportion of one, or more, of the other macronutrients. Thus, for example, a high fat diet is usually relatively low in carbohydrate and vice versa and a high protein diet is relatively low in carbohydrate and/or fat.

There is a growing body of evidence that a major imbalance in the relative proportions of macronutrients can increase risk of chronic disease and may adversely affect micronutrient intake. However, the form of fat (eg saturated, polyunsaturated or monounsaturated or specific fatty acids) or carbohydrate (eg starches or sugars; high or low glycaemic) is also a major consideration in determining the optimal balance in terms of chronic disease risk. This has not always been given enough consideration in study design or interpretation."

You can read the full report here:
nrv.gov.au/chronic-disease/macronutrient-balance

this is entirely what the sticky is proving wrong actually

...

He sees the error of his logic

THERE IS HOPE

>120kg
>do keto
>lost 40kg
>finish
>eat some pasta
>mfw back up to 120kg the next day

wait what? no, your logic is completely fucked.

a diet of strictly coca cola can't work, therefore your argument is completely fucking invalid to the topic at hand. try again dipshit.

Moderation is key.
Also it's been proven that high carb diets are the biggest culprits in current obesity and cardiovascular diseases in the first world.

If I drank over my required calories in Coca Cola I wound gain fat. That's what calories in vs calories out implies. You cannot gain weight or lose weight whether it be muscle or fat without the right amount of calories.

>it's been proven

cite the studies

The idea is that carbohydrates can't be grouped. The term 'high carb diets' is inherently too broad. Are they high in starchy, complex carbs? or sugar?

Can I eat cheesecake on a keto diet?

You said "calories in calories out", without mentioning any other variable.

Coca cola is calories in and out.

Or does it stay in your body indefinitely?
Does coco cola transform my body into a perpetually self renourshing state?

Seems like your moving the goalposts after you realized you said something dumb.

What is "all your calories"?

Did you read the rest of that excerpt?
>just remember that in the end, it's about persistence, patience, protein and calories.
>If your diet of choice gets those 4 right, it will work.

You need 6 liters a day assuming TDEE ~2500kcal.

I'm on keto myself and I doubt it has a fraction of the magical benefits many claim. I do enjoy it, as I hardly get hunger cravings and I never get that insulin crash after eating a big meal.
I'm 3 weeks in and went from around 91-92kg to 87kg (at 183cm) with 1,7k cals a day. The results would probably have been the same on any other diet, but the fact that I don't get tired after eating meals means that it's been easier to function on such a big deficit.

>I'm 3 weeks in
call us in 6 months

Will do. I already cut for a few months going from 93 to 77 a few years back, but I was miserable during that time. Cutting on keto seems like childs play in comparison.

>What sort of doss fucking cunt doesn't fucking believe that cutting out carbs from your diet will promote weight loss and better overall fitness?
The entire fitness, medical and health industry because they use evidence rather than marketing to form results

The catch is it's bullshit. Which is why the few studies that are done on the low carb fad diet of the year always show no benefit over standard calorie deficit for weight loss, Keto included.

Use zero calorie sweetener and you're good.

common sense lads

Because two things, the thermic effect of food, and the fact that the digestive tract is not as efficient as a bomb calorimeter, which is the tool used to figure the amount of calories that you find on nutritional information. So, there will be somewhat (but not too much) of a discrepancy between the actual, total number of calories you shovel down your gob, and the amount that your body utilizes.

Nigger the point of the keto diet is to enter in a state of ketosis unless you didn't realize, not some complex tv meal plan. You can still eat 50/60 g of carbs a day if you are in ketosis.

Not to mention most of the touted benefits from the diet are a result of being in ketosis and not entirely the diet itself.

Saying its another fad diet is disingenuous and saying i doesn't work is even more so.

Your body is littleraly FORCED to produce ketones because it has no glucose or glycogen left and it uses YOUR BODIES FAT TO DO SO.

IT IS A SCIENTIFIC FACT YOU WILL BURN FAT WHILE DOING NOTHING ON KETO.

Just because someone is a fucking idiot and doesn't realize he has to lower his tdee even more on keto doesn't make it "not work".

FUCKKKKKK

And yet, every time it's actually been studied, it turns out there's zero fucking difference in fat loss between a keto diet and a calorically equivalent non-keto diet.

>Your body is littleraly FORCED to produce ketones because it has no glucose or glycogen left and it uses YOUR BODIES FAT TO DO SO

Meanwhile you're feeding it fat it can store immediately in place of what it just burned.

>"there will be somewhat (but not too much) of a discrepancy"
>moving the goalpost so you can't be entirely wrong

nice sources too

>came here to hear the arguments against cal in cal out keto
>staying for the engineers bringing the bantz
Seriously, people believe you can lose weight on Keto without watching your calories? Even I know you have to start with a deficit and I'm a retarded faggot.

>be hunter gatherer for millennia
>no stable food source other than the occasional kill ever 2/3 sometimes 4 days
>been an especially long week and you haven't had anything to eat for 6 days
>your bro scores an elk and you start cooking it up
>both of you eat some but you ravenously continue to wolf down the meat
>bro is like calm the fuck down you already ate your 30 grams
>but im starving, theres still an entire deer left
>leave that shit we would just poop it out anyway
>we go about our day and leave 90% of the dear intact and uneaten
>mfw

>Just because someone is a fucking idiot and doesn't realize he has to lower his tdee even more on keto doesn't make it "not work".

How convenient of you to have ignored the end of my post.

>all the studies did the diet wrong!
(You)

Nice sources there buddy

Not him, but he's talking about weight gain not nourishment.

>lower his tdee

Like how, stay in bed all day?

>"studies"
>there are no studies that concluded it work
>still no sources or studies cited

Either way this is grasping at straws kek, even if you didn't burn more fat like you said the fact that you can directly use your bodyfat for calories at will would be an indispensable tool for clean bulking and maintenance. Not to mention you don't hit a hard glucose barrier during cardio when you run out of carbs.

Even at 14/15% body fat you have ~10000 calories at your disposal.

hunter gatherers who can't fucking gather deserve to die

Still waiting on those sources, asshat.

Keto is good for losing weight, but eating nothing but meat and cheese every day literally can't be good for you long term.

>food preservation
>10000 b.c.
>mfw

It isn't.

t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/ugly-truth-about-ketogenic-diets

It decreases your gains big time too.

Keto is a meme. Cutting out carbs is bad for athletic performance. Just hoping the food is more filling so you will eat less will never come close to counting calories.

>Ingesting protein above approximately .8 grams per pound is enough to kick you out of ketosis.
>shitposting this loudly

I'm eating avove 1 gram per pound now and im still one ketosis kek, my mg/dl is at 40. I use testing strips regularly to keep track.

The thing about keto most people don't get is that it's not low carb; it's zero carb. The keto diet is based on eating so few carbs (less than 20g/day) that your body goes through a metabolic shift from relying on carbs for energy to producing ketone bodies from fat and using them for energy. If you overeat carbs, but don't get the normal minimum, ~100g, you end up in a middle ground and feel like shit. As long as you hit your calorie needs in protein and fat and stay under the carb limit, keto is perfectly healthy. It's used to treat seizures in children for long periods of time with no ill effects, and no research has found it to be harmful to adults, provided you do it.

R U OK?

>hominids being strict carnivores
>ever

>everyone is the same

>if you believe in these diets, go do them

There you go, quit whining faggot.

>expecting gains on any cutting diet
Just leave.

Nice meme.

The thing is, you'd have to be an obsessive no-lifer faggot in order to manage a diet that has less than 20g or 10g of carbs in it. It is moronic the type of shit people put them selves through, when a balanced calorie deficit diet is not only easier but also allows you to not spend hours picking what food you are allowed to eat.

I said decreases big time you fucking moron. Big difference from being stagnant

Anyone can eat 1g per lbs and still stay in ketosis, this is a meme. Unless you are extremely small or skinny it might happen, even then all you'd have to do is up tdee to compensate and you'd be fine.

>source: my ass

I think smoking as a method of preserving meat was invented before we even made it out of the caves.

>fruits and veggies don't go bad

Any cutting diet will decrease your gains to zero you stupid piece of shit.

kek

Nigger it's common sense, the danger being that too much protein can be glucogenic. Just up fat intake to compensate for more protein.

>Any cutting diet will decrease your gains to zero you stupid piece of shit.
How does Chad do it?

>common sense
>knowing how ketosis works
Too much protein consumption can result in the liver converting the amino acids into sugar.

bodyecology.com/articles/low-carbohydrate-dieters-beware-of-high-protein-intake

>late prehistory is all of prehistory

>passive calorie burn will be the same no matter what fuel your body is running on
If you're actually dumb enough to believe that there's nothing anyone can do to stop you community college engineer

not the guy you responded to

>you can't prove your position
>therefore my position which is equally unprovable is scien*tip*ally correct
Do us all a favor and remove yourself from the gene pool

>article goes out of their way to avoid specific protein intakes
>he still thinks 1g per lbs is enough to do this
>all the accumulated ketones in your bloodstream vanish when your liver does this

You would have to be eating a metric fuck ton more over your body weight in total and a shit ton in one sitting for this to even happen.

Even if this were to happen, protein wouldn't be able to keep it up for long enough to replace ketones unless they were already in short supply.

>Also, this is the first time I have clicked on Veeky Forums

>get btfo
>resort to source: my ass

He doesn't. If you're at a caloric deficit, AKA a cutting diet, you will not gain any measurable amount of lean body tissue. Chad, and every other bodybuilder, cycles or stays at a maintenance level.

>he doesn't understand protein isn't made for this

You will stop producing ketones for a couple hours if it does happen but technically you will stay in ketosis as long as your mg/dl is high enough.

You are assuming the most inefficient way of creating glucose from the most inefficient energy storing macro nutrient will magically alter your blood composition when introduced.

Like I said, unless you already have only trace amounts of ketones in your body this wont happen.

you keep changing your argument

>late prehistory is not prehistory

No I haven't, your reading comprehension is just shit.

If I actually was then you would have been more specific.

>he fails to understand why this is irrelevant
>he missed the point

>he fails to understand why this is relevant
>he missed the point

no one said when introduced. we're talking about staying at that high protein diet

(((The sticky)))

Like I said earlier you would have to accumulate an ungodly amount of protein in order for your body to start throwing it away in shitty inefficient processes.

I bet you belive le 30g proton stuff too

ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html?m=1

>ingesting 50g of protein resulted in the same amount of glucose production as drinking water
>50g of protein
Great relevancy buddy.