This fucking guy is about to turn me vegan purely for health benefits. Convince me otherwise with science

Don't you have the mental power to limit yourself to 500grams of meat a week? Also eggs are fucking great in moderation, just limit them to few times a week and you'll be golden. You don't want to miss out on eggs completely. I wouldn't drink milk.

he is literally autistic

I don't know the exact numbers (still, definitely more than 500g a week), but I eat whatever I want with IIFYM philosophy and my blood work is literally perfect.
You see, if you eat 5000kcal a day that will be unhealthy on omnivore diet. 2500-3000 definitely not

I don't listen to anyone that owns action figures as an adult.

Isn't this the guy who castrated himself for health optimization?

tho now that I think about it, it's probably not a lot more than 500g.
for breakfast I eat oats, for dinner I eat some meat or whatever and before sleep I usually drink milk and eat quark and bread

> eggs are fucking great in moderation, just limit them to few times a week

Or even better, not at all.

Health Benefits are blown way out of proportion. A lot of the reason vegans are usually healthier is because most vegans are not overweight or obese unlike most meat eaters.

That can't be much of the reason since studies looking at health outcomes take BMI into account

How about the fact that he deadlifts 150kg after lifting for like 10 years. Is that enough?

Link studies that show causation and not just correlation.

this

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4 years motherfucker. 4 years before you go to insane

Why are eggs great apart from tons of protein? It seems to be increasing cholesterol levels and also have very high levels of methionine.

Also you don t need insane amounts of protein on a vegan diet. 80% carbs 10% protein and 10% seems to be the vegan standard.

so cocaine has no health risks in moderation
alcohol has no health risks in moderation?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study
This is what started it all.

>no eggs
>no meat

What is even the point in living then?

>dietary cholesterol is the cause of high blood cholesterol

kys

Think he castrated himself because he hates children and wanna have sex without risking getting them.

There are a lot of very successful vegan bodybuilders/athletes. Also he recently did a 220kg deadlift. And even if putting on a lot of size was hard with a vegan diet I wouldn't mind to much since i'm only doing BJJ now.

I've been vegan for about two months now. I got bloodwork done last week. My HDL was 75 and my LDL was 81. Those are both pretty fucking good.

I don't know what my cholesterol was before but prior to being vegan I was eating like a complete asshole (bacon and eggs for breakfast, fatty ribeye for lunch and maybe fried chicken or pizza for dinner).

I don't feel like a god like most vegans claim after switching but I do feel better. So far the most noticeable benefits I've noticed are a lower resting heart rate, lower blood pressure and less acne. As long as you're eating varied you shouldn't have to worry about protein. I haven't lost any muscle.

B12 and Omega 3 supps are necessary unless you eat a lot of fortified foods. I actually spend about 20 bucks less on groceries because I've replaced beef and chicken with beans, lentils and starches.

Switching to a vegan diet is a wise decision if you obsess over health and longevity. If you only eat a piece of lean meat or fish once a day and eat a varied diet I doubt you'd notice much of a difference. I'd still encourage veganism though because there's really no downside and it is the most sustainable. Plus I feel like less of an asshole knowing I'm not supporting factory farms and all that shit.

>A lot of the reason vegans are usually healthier is because most vegans are not overweight or obese unlike most meat eaters.
That doesn't really make much sense considering the most calorie dense foods would be considered vegan

Just supplement B12 and you'll be fine.

>Also he recently did a 220kg deadlift
literally said he couldn't do 155kg 5x5 in his newest video after years of lifting.
>>There are a lot of very successful vegan bodybuilders/athletes.
Name one that's not on roids.

>500 grams of meat a week

What? If we're talking about using 500grams of meat, that's literally one meal prep session that will cover you for 2-3 meals, and that's with moderate portions.

I think it's more likely 500g max per day.

Causation as in mechanisms that tell us why those eating meat tend to have more health problems?

One obvious one is for heart disease, the most common cause of death in western countries, higher circulating cholesterol levels is a risk factor for developing atherosclerosis. When you eat meat, your cholesterol levels normally increase.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7019459

This is because saturated fat and cholesterol, both fundemental parts of meat, stimulate cholesterol production and lower cholesterol clearance, leading to a rise in blood levels.

bmj.com/content/314/7074/112.long

So at least in this case, without even getting into how plant foods decrease heart disease risk, you could say fairly that part of the benefit of eating a vegan diet does come from avoiding meat.

>considering the most calorie dense foods would be considered vegan
What, like nuts and shit? No one eats pounds and pounds of nuts. That's too expensive.

he made me go vegan aswell, i just watched at first for the lulz loved the rage and savagerrr
im vegan and never going back. love it :DDDDDDDDD

Surprisingly, yes, Alcohol has no health risks in moderation unless you have underlying issues already.

A glass of red wine with dinner is actually incredibly healthy outside of the carbs.

Cocaine is a hard drug and you're a fucking moron comparing that to meat.

>deadlifts 150kg after 10 years
I could deadlift 100 after 4 months what the fuck.

you're comparing the average, completely sedentary person that is a meat-eater with the average vegan who is not completely illiterate about nutrition although still quite a bit.
if veganism was culturally standard, there would be a fuckload of vegans around with heart diseases because they are fat slobs that do nothing all day except sit on a chair and eat vegan chocolate.
now go and compare the health benefits between fit physically active omnivorous (aka normal) people with vegans.

>Alcohol has no health risks in moderation unless you have underlying issues already.

Alcohol only has benefits if you have underlying issues, since it can give a small decrease in CVD risk in those at high risk. The trade-off is higher cancer risk, especially breast cancer for women.

I mean I would but I find it so easy to cut on lean meats

to be fair I don't think he ever focused on the deadlift or anything in particular until now. I could be wrong but I thought he would mainly do arms and other bodybuilding shit then focused on martial arts. He likes to jump around.

if you didn't get bloodwork done before then those numbers mean nothing you fucking retard

Yeah 150 for reps is at most 1 year of lifting for even the worst gde, but I guess for vegans it's huge achievement.

Not only that but he said he was eating fried chicken and pizza on the regular.

Fuckin any diet would make you feel better coming off of that.

Avi Lehyani and Brendan Brazier which seems to be natty but I cant be a 100%. Also if you can get big with roids eating vegan you can get big without roids eating vegan.

>alcohol has no health risks in moderation?
Yes dumbfuck

Muh sentient chickenz

>if veganism was culturally standard, there would be a fuckload of vegans around with heart diseases because they are fat slobs that do nothing all day except sit on a chair and eat vegan chocolate.

Of course, I'm just saying that when studies find vegans, on average, comparing people of similar physical activity levels, BMI, etc, are shown to have lower heart disease rates it likely is at least partly due to avoiding meat.

>now go and compare the health benefits between fit physically active omnivorous (aka normal) people with vegans.

I would argue that fit, physically active people wouldn't be considered normal anymore, but studies attempt to compare people of similar physical activity, BMI, etc anyway. If you look at comparable people, the vegans have the edge. If you'd like a study to only carefully select specific healthy omnivorous people in order to make their health outcomes look better in comparison, that would be cherry-picking.

>vegan purely for health benefits
Bullshit. I've been vegan for about 5 years. 4 of them I spent as a dyel skinnyfat faggot that couldn't put a tracksuit on without getting winded, let alone run for more than 5 minutes. Only in the last year have I lost my lovehandles and I started lifting to put on muscle a couple of months ago. Could barely bench the bar, doing lmao1plate now and improving, we'll see how it goes...

But point is, my diet is completely different, though technically it was "vegan" both before and now, it used to be shitty and unhealthy and now it's optimised for gains and well-being (170+g complete protein and 300g complex carbs per day minimum, 100+g healthy fats for hormone health). I feel completely different too.

"Vegan" is a non-statement when it comes to health. "Vegan" says something about the source of the food, not the quality or benefit of it. A pound of sugar chased down with a fifth of vodka and a gallon of your own semen is techically "vegan". I remained vegan for environmental and ethical reasons, but healthwise it'd have been just as good eating lean meats and lots of veggies. This falsehood of vegan food as "healthy" can easily be proven wrong and hence only damages the vegan cause. Not that OP isn't bait.

Logically there is nothing speaking against a vegan diet - not for health benefits but for ethical reasons.

I wonder however, is there a strong, natty vegan?
All the vegan "beasts" I know about are on roids.

Actually eating the cocaine leafs in moderation have no health risks. But its when its processed into 70%+ pure cocaine it becomes really harmful.

When will people finally understand that cholesterol levels are 100% genetics?
You can eat the shitties diet of your life and won't ever have any problems.

And you can have gentically high levels and be a vegan dieng to a stroke at 50.

I ate like shit, slept whenever I felt like it and didn't even follow a lifting routine outside of SS + curls and whatever I felt like, and after 4 months I could deadlift 100kg. He has almost 0 excuses.

>that would be cherry-picking
Well, how about if one picked people of a similar level of fitness, both vegans and omnis? Like set a standard of excercise hours a week, bodyfat percentage or something like that, or just test athletes.

>A pound of sugar chased down with a fifth of vodka and a gallon of your own semen is techically "vegan"
fuckin kek

>A pound of sugar chased down with a fifth of vodka and a gallon of your own semen is techically "vegan".

Technically it's not. It'd have to be almond semen.

>I wonder however, is there a strong, natty vegan?
I dont think they exist

the're either jacked roidheads or dyels

>inb4 someone claims clarence is natural

>a gallon of your own cum isn't vegan
Guess I haven't been vegan all these years then.

don't forget 2000 iu of vitamin d daily as well, everyone should do that

Did you count calories while being vegan? Its really easy to under eat while being vegan. Also do you think good diet will automatically give you better condition without training? I don`t think vegan nutrition = good nutrition but it seems that almost all non vegan food is unhealthy.

All real beasts are on roids. But Avi Lehyani seems to be natty and he is pretty big

Most studies don't go as far as to look at bodyfat percentage, but this is basically how studies work already. You group your data into tertiles/quartiles/quintiles of physical activity, BMI, etc and then compare people in each of those groups so that you're looking at people withh reasonably similar lifestyles.

Are you retarded? Yes genetics play a big role in cholesterol levels but studies measure cholesterol levels before AND after dietary changes. Is this bait?

Yeah but that's not for vegans specifically so it doesn't need mentioning.

I still am vegan, but counting calories was indeed one of the things I changed when I started eating healthy. Supereasy to both undereat and overeat - some stuff, like nuts and seeds and dishes based on them are really calorie dense. Hummus for example is easy to overeat on when cutting.

Most non-vegan food is unhealthy, but so is most vegan food. Most food being sold currently is unhealthy because that sort of food is addictive and capitalism takes care of the rest. Healthy eating is as much about cutting out unhealthy bs as eating the right stuff. And yeah sure, I guess it's not a strong case for meat being healthy, when the healthiest meat-based diets are those that include the least meat... but still, having some lean chicken-breasts and veggies will beat eating vegan chocolate and drinking vegan beer, healthwise.

Indeed, but the thing is that veganism is not a norm, and therefore requires forethought. Almost by definition, a person who puts a large amount of thought into what they eat is going to be healthier than the average joe. Controlling for this would require looking at people on other non-standard longterm diets, like people doing keto or paleo or something for 2 years+.

>Indeed, but the thing is that veganism is not a norm, and therefore requires forethought. Almost by definition, a person who puts a large amount of thought into what they eat is going to be healthier than the average joe.

We're talking about "a person who puts thought into what they eat" in two different ways here. People going on vegan diets don't necessarily care to learn what a healthy diet looks like. They may put thought into their diet so much as trying to avoid things made from animals, but not necessarily caring about what's good or bad for them. There's a huge market for vegan junk foods. Omnivorism also doesn't imply people don't think about their food choices. The fact that it IS the norm means they have more support for learning how to eat well. The standard "healthy diet" is the omnivorous Mediterranean diet. The average person interested in healthy eating is probably more likely to eat a Med diet.

Good points. I guess I'm a methodology nerd; I'd like to see a huge comparison matrix of sorts, testing people by level of activity, bodyfat, athletic performance, etc. and looking at Mediterranean, Standard American, keto, paleo and vegan diets, all in both 'average' and 'health optimal' versions, and then test for every god damn health indicator known to man, including muscle mass and test levels. I mean like doing one huge end-the-debate kind of study, and finally put the discussion to an end.

I never said they don't raise.
I said they never raise to any meaningful amount no matter how shitty your diet.

That would be great but too complex to ever happen, and including things like keto and paleo would make it pretty much impossible since you would need your study participants to be on the diet for a minimum of 10 years to measure outcomes, and keto/paleo are regarded as short term/fad diets that people go on and off.

Oh well, that's the nature of the game.

>over exaggerated
As opposed to under exaggerated? "Over exaggerated" has to be the most retarded millenialism

>"Over exaggerated" has to be the most retarded millenialism

I'm still mad that they changed the definition of "literally" to mean not literally

Yes, actually. It may even have BENEFITS

You'll get 99% of the same benefits from just eating a regular healthy diet with plenty of plant-based foods, without any of the shitty side effects or need for supplementation.

There are virtually no dieticians (dietetics student here) that recommend a vegan diet. Some recommend a vegetarian diet, but most will recommend 1-2 serves of oily fish a week and sometimes 1 serve of red meat, plus plenty of low fat dairy.

Plus, vegan food is expensive, you look like a wanker at restaurants and none if it tastes that good.

Ethically I don't have an argument, but just about any health claim that VG makes I'm happy to debate

Good to see lads thinking like this..

We need more science wired brains on this board.

Cut down on sat fat et al until your blood tests are cushy, that's what I did and technically I kill more animals per day since I opt for chicken boob.

Have at it.

The more people who go vegan, the less demand there will be for meat and the cheaper it'll be for the rest of us.

Thanks for your contribution. Tell your friends to go vegan too pls.

> dietary cholesterol affects serum cholesterol
> methionine is a REALLY BAD THING that you should avoid
> 80/10/10 C/P/F is okay

>I would argue that fit, physically active people wouldn't be considered normal anymore, but studies attempt to compare people of similar physical activity, BMI, etc anyway. If you look at comparable people, the vegans have the edge. If you'd like a study to only carefully select specific healthy omnivorous people in order to make their health outcomes look better in comparison, that would be cherry-picking.

> i-i-if the study benefits MY point of view, it's sound, but if it benefits YOURS, it's biased and cherry-picking!

>not cherry picking is cherry picking

> comparing the SAD to a vegan diet is a valid comparison because it shows vegan diets to be associated with improved health endpoints

> but comparing a balanced omnivorous diet with a vegan diet would be fishing for results that benefit omnivores

>all omnivorous diets are SAD and all vegan diets are perfectly crafted by expert dieticians

A victim complex does not become you. Studies already make the effort to compare like to like, you're just making up any excuse to ignore the results.

>What, like nuts and shit? No one eats pounds and pounds of nuts. That's too expensive.
Bascally all calorie dense high carb food is vegan
Bread,Rice,oils potatoes...
Meat at least lean cuts aren't really high in calories.

Why do we keep having these thinly veiled shill threads.

It's the same thing EVERY SINGLE TIME.

> Hey Veeky Forums, I agreed with you the whole time but just recently I think virgingains has some good points .. man I just don't know anymore.

WOW SO RELATABLE & UNDERSTANDABLE, MAYBE THIS WILL OPEN MY EYES. HE WAS ONE OF US BOYS, IF HE CAN LEARN SO CAN WE.

Nigga fuck off.

love ya bro
good to see that not everybody on Veeky Forums is a durr fuckin vegans amrite

do you have a source? all the studies I've read sweep the comparisons between SAD and vegan diets under the rug

The most frequently cited studies on vegan health come from Loma Linda, California on the Seventh Day Adventist community. This area is known as a "blue zone" because the average lifespan is significantly more than the rest of the country/most of the world. In this community of health-conscious people where drug use is low, spirituality and social bonds are high, and diets are generally clean, there is a scaling relationship between amount of animal-sourced foods in the diet and worse health outcomes after controlling for things like physical activity, BMI, energy intake, smoking, ethnicity, and alcohol intake.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4073139/

This idea that studies just compare obese junk food eaters who happen to eat meat to active vegans with pristine diets is a baseless distraction.

> here's my bloodwork after goin vegan!

ok, so what was it before

> I DUNNO

so how do you know it improved

> i dunno, it just did.

cheers man I'll read into it

Using phrases like "millennial" is, itself, the most retarded thing.

The actual phrase is used to indicate anyone born since the '80s and is so broad a term as to be almost useless in your context.

B12 is only found in meat because it's supplemented you autistic cuntstain. That and your B12 gets stored for a very long period of time, you could easily take light supplements for it.

Retards on this board are a many

If you're vegan for any reason outside caring for animals type shit you're a fucking moron.

>B12 is only found in meat because it's supplemented

I can understand vegetarian, but vegan is full blown autism.

I think mediteranen diet is probably better