Is it true squatting can hurt your back...

>ego lift
what is this

Lifting more than you can really handle with proper form just to show off

it's when someone lifts more than you

>I shouldn't squat because I have a round back.

He wasn't telling you "squauatting is dangerous for all people in all circumstances", he was telling you, "Your form fucking sucks, deload and unfuck your form before you're crippled & permanently weak."

fix your form so your back doesn't round and keep squatting

No I have a round back, as in exaggerated spinal curve, all the time not just when squatting.

>before you're crippled & permanently weak."

>No I have a round back, as in exaggerated spinal curve, all the time not just when squatting.

Too late.

You mean hunched over or the other way around?

Bad form and/or too much weight can hurt your back. Use a belt if you lift heavy. Make sure your form isn't trash.

I guess 350 + lbs.

I don't think you'd run into many issues staying under 315 lbs. while squatting.

Not true. You can think you can "handle" a weight because your legs are strong enough to push it, and your form is correct, but structurally speaking all it takes is one weak link in a joint or disc to give under what is an unnatural amount of weight for a human to support.

You mean you have kyphosis or some other diagnosed ailment, or do you just have terrible posture?

What mode are you?

Quasi mode?

I guess it's postural kyphosis yes. Not diagnosed and no it's not because of deformed vertebraes.

How can it be the other way around?

of course putting 400lbs on your shoulders and going up and down with it can hurt your back

are you stupid?

if you have good form you'll most likely be ok

or you might get injured heinously anyway

or you might have shit form for 30 years and just happen to be one of those bulletproof guys who never gets hurt

have fun finding out which of these categories you fall into

yeah, this is one of the most stupid genetic memes out there

some people (like me) have hypermobile backs which makes stabilization harder which greatly increases the risk of injury

Pretty sure I'm hypomobile, so that must be good for lifting right

t. OP

>structurally speaking all it takes is one weak link in a joint or disc to give under what is an unnatural amount of weight for a human to support.
That is not the squat's problem, it was something else that must have caused that link to have done that.
Form is designed to prevent injuries, that is a fact. If you ever get injured from a squat, you must have either weakened something before the squat, squatting too much than you can handle, or your form is shit.

Which is why you need a strong core. Your back shouldn't move at all if your core is strong enough to support the weight.

absolutely

if you haven't already you should read up on Stu McGill's stuff, he's the expert on ow my back and related issues

some guys actually develop adaptations to round back pulling/squatting that make them very injury resistant when they have lumbar flexion

...

That's because you're not doing it properly OP

More like 60+ roided as fuck

xd

of course, but it just means that you're naturally more prone to injury (by a lot), and should probably focus on core work and super stricht technique for months before even lifting heavy

yeah i already know about mcgill, too bad i learned all this after my disc bulge. it's not like you're aware that you're hypermobile

He told you that your back is rounded, that means your form is shit.

Learn to flatten your back first.

If you know you have a weak anything, you should always focus on training that first. You want an even strength level because muscle imbalance can fuck you up too.

I pulled my hip flexor on a deadlift during a mistake ego lift.

More like slipped disks cuz shit form.

if you have never worked out before you're not really aware of these things

i learned about bracing and practiced that every rep, and i thought i was doing okay

Sucks to see the big gui bent like that...

I learned quickly by making some mistakes of my own.

The biggest risk is when you are young and hungry for gains and power, with the least amount of knowledge (not theoretical, but knowing your body, you cannot 'read' about your own body, you gotta have years put in).

High reps, slow and controlled, thats my motto. I was never healthier and all my joints are lubricated perfectly.

Sure, for my bw/power there are stronger ppl out there, but I got aesthetics, health, and thats what matters to me.

Look up Pehlwani wrestlers. Thats the next aesthetic trend. Healthy, can go for hours, and their fat % is pro-testosterone. Not too much, not too little.

I really dig their physiques.

Reps for days!

And when you workout like that, with higher volume, you really feel the power in everyday life. Not like when I did sub 8 reps and couldnt hold shopping bags without getting the burn.

Yes, it can.

It hurt my back real bad recently. I'm recovering but it sucks.

That said, back injuries are part of life. And squatting does make back pain go away if you do it right. I hurt myself because I got careless on a warmup, not going heavy or anything. Just didn't brace right and I guess my butt wiggled causing some kind of little sprain down there.

Watch the Starting Strength podcast #8 for more info, it's pretty interesting.

Not roids, but in many ways just using test is healthier, you can be big with lighter weights and more cardio. But it's also cheating.

Just do back extensions before trying to squat. Do them withOUT extra weight for 4 sets.

Then add 2 kg
Then 4. This all happens over few months. (5)

Yeah you could do them with 20 pounds, but the point is you gotta do it safely and give time to the spine to adapt.

Basically do that and squat without any weight for reps, 4 sets.

After 4 months you should be in the 50's for squats, but spine never go more than 15 reps per set, when muscles tire they can lose the ability to hold all the vertebrae in proper alignment. SO dont chase the burn when doing extensions AND NEVER GO beyond the line connecting your chest and toes. (dont overextend).

Doing this for 5 months will prepare you for squats.

Then do squats with weight you can control, weight that seems to easy. Like 20 kg.

Always up the weight slowly. Chasing the big weight only fucks people up.
Give it time.

Now I give myself yearly and decade-ly goals, not ''gotta squat a ton by 3 months''.

How to avoid gains: the post

Pretty good for not snapping your shit up, and as somebody who has snapped his shit up going slow to start with is retrospectively not such a bad idea

i'd say this advice is pretty stupid

back extensions won't teach you to squat correctly

and they won't protect you from injury

you need endurance to begin with for your core, not strength

it would be better to start doing something like this (derived from mcgill, world renowned expert):

* some of these things might seem silly but they will creep in to your training and fixing normal movement should be prio 1.

1. correct any walking, standing and sitting flaws you have. i.e. any postural issues.

2. learn correct movement patterns for transitioning between sitting and standing, picking light things up, tying your shoes, brushing your teeth. simple shit like that.

* this starts with learning how to brace, what bracing is and what bracing is not, how much you should brace etc.

* learning how to hip hinge

* learning how to BW squat. just deep enough to sit on a chair first, and then deeper when mastered

* learning how to lunge into a sitting or a lying position

* learning how to move your entire body as a unit, not isolating the the back.

3. build endurance for your lower back, using bird dogs, side & front planks, and curl ups

4. build strength

something like that

No matter how slow you go, if you move the weight up (over longer periods of time) you will gain.

Just not as fast as ads in magazines would like you to think is safe.

I made more gains like this t b h because I never got hurt and never overtrained so I could be consistent and didnt had to stuff my face as much.

If you decide to gain 5 kg in one year and go slow, you will probably gain even more, but if you aim at 20 kg and snap yourself...

The mantra for the greedy is: No matter how slow I up the weight, I am becoming stronger and Im gaining.

If no training keeps your bw constant, then training with right diet = always making gains.

I write this for the ppl who are young and reckless and on the verge of making the right decision.

>back extensions won't teach you to squat correctly

who said that?

It will strengthen your posterior chain though.

Squatting with empty bar will teach you the best form providing you have common sense and read some theory up.

For core do leg raises.

With slow enough progression 99% of ppl would be safe.

And honestly if you arent a powerlifter why even try to squat more than 120 kg?

You can have huge legs with that alone. Just add volume.

>not roids
>test

Testosterone is literally an Anabolic steroid faggot

I hate to break this to you, but 350lbs simply isn't that heavy.

just onje of many points against back extensions

its a great exercise but endurance should be built first using the exercises i mentioned (and some other progressions)

Interesting.
My heaviest "safe squat" is 405 for 3 (1RM is almost never safe) and I've never had any injuries from squats (or any other lifts).

Well he's obviously half-retarded.

Yeah, it can seriously fuck you up if you round your back, or have any shitty form going on.

But to say "don't do it at all" as a solution is fucking idiocy.

If you make a mistake when doing anything in life, or simply don't know how to do something properly right away, do you just give up and never bother again?

A back injury might be enough to convince you to stop depending on how bad it is.

That shit hurts like a motherfucker.

It probably shouldn't, however.

Nigger no my back is rounded while I'm standing, that's when he said that.

It's a quick and expedient ticket straight to SNAP city.

OK I realise now that the OP wasn't clear enough. What I mean is that my spine is naturally curved, as in I have some postural kyphosis. Guy told me not to squat and do yoga instead.

Veeky Forums is fucking retarded when it comes to squats.

Dont do them. There is literally no reason to. Find any other exercise that hits hamstrings and do that instead because its going to be infinitely safer.

Every squat is an ego squat. People do it because its the manly thing to do and Veeky Forums is insecure as fuck.

How are squats manly, it's what girls do to get fuckable asses.

Everyone's spine is naturally curved, its supposed to be curved. If its curved too much then its a problem.

You probably have tight hip flexors and weak core, glutes. Like many ppl in modern civ (sitting 80% of their lives).

You should do hip stretches after getting warmed up, work your glutes and core.

or just squat but never more than your bw plus bar.

or do weighted lunges. Your ass will explode tho. Gay attention may rise.

>everyone I know who squats heavy has ended up with some serious injury at some point

No one i know has ever gotten a serious injury squatting heavy at any point

Isn't the best thing to work glutes and core literally squats?

I've trained at different powerlifting gyms for years and everyone I meet seems to be fine despite decades of squats. They're not that dangerous. I squat near 5 plates and have yet to enter Snap City.

In my anecdotal experience it's mostly equipped and/or roided powerlifting that is dangerous due to the much bigger weights.

not if you have kyphosis. Your spine wont load properly.

If you squat like in your pic but without all the steroids in your pic, yeah, you'll probably hurt yourself.

Arnold was a retard

I squat 600 lbs and the worst I've ever done squatting was strain a calf muscle because I done fucked up and the weight got WAY too far forward.

What does that mean?

This is the most ignorant shit ive ever read. People hate squats because they are hard. Every squat day back in HS football lifting, barley anyone would squat.

>ohhh the bar hurts my back
>ohhh i feel like im going to fall over
>ohhh i have shit flexibility and squats hurt

Squats are only ever gonna fuck you up if you have dog shit form, are over training, or so roided that you have surpassed the limits of your joints and connective tissue.

But i get it, squats are hard and uncomfortable so you need to do the mental gymnastics to convince yourself they are dangerous and unnecessary instead of just have the self awareness to realize your a pussy.

not everyone is made to squat monster weight.

Keep that in mind.

Limb length ratios, spine, bone structure, muscle balance.

Everything has to be on point.

>read some book about Arnie
>his first time at the gym the guys told him to drink salt water for gains
>he actually did it

soundcloud.com/startingstrength/13-11-20-starting-strength

Listen to it, faggots

Small injuries to your back are normal, but will heal. Even bad injuries can be recovered from.

The main thing is not to be so terrified of hurting your back that you stop trying to improve yourself.

That means that the curves of a kyphotic spine arent optimized for loading.

Think of it as a fucked up suspension.

It can be fixed but not with loading the spine even more. You do deloaded work that I've mentioned. Get the surounding structures fixed. Rarely its the spine fault to be kyphotic.

Google kyphosis rehab etc. Go see a rehab doc. Get surrounding structures fixed so spine can align itself.

Even arnie got arnied...

And yet yesterday, when I worked at a local powerlifting meet, I saw around 100 people with varying body types squatting weights that shit on 99% of Veeky Forums without flying apart and dying. These guys and girls are by no means elite athletes either, just normal people with a hobby.

There was even a 60-year old man squatting over 4 plates.

of course. Cool to see it.

Point is, not everyone can achieve it with same effort.

Short reach wont break a boxer, but it isnt a favorable trait.
You develop around your attributes.

Point is, do it slowly and safely, dont compare to others.

I was once a hungry teen and it cost me more thank God it paid back in lessons. But why go trough it.

Not even against squatting, its a primal exercise, but ppl should be obsessed with greasing the grove and FORM, not numbers.

Doctors are shit, they just tell me to swim and do stretching exercises. Swam every day for months and it didn't change a thing. I'm guessing I have some muscle weakness somewhere, either in upper back or abs.

I did notice some improvement since I started 5x5 like three weeks ago, maybe squats or maybe bent over rows. Minor improvement though, only noticeable when I'm bent over.

Ok, we're at the same page then. I assumed you advised against squatting entirely unless you're perfectly built to squat.

You're of course right that ego lifting is the wrong way to go and that attention to form is important.

Doctors don't know shit about backs.

PTs don't know shit about backs.

Chiropractors don't know shit about backs.

Nobody knows shit about backs. They are a fucking mystery even to experts.

Well that's just great, with every medical issue I have I realise we're still living in the Dark Ages.

But don't forget to take your pharmaceutical cocktail and avoid marijuana.

stretching wont do shit. (by itself)

You need to develop increased resting tone of muscles in your ass, and decrease the tone of hip flexors.

Like I've said. Do lunges. Squat but without weight. Do crunches but the proper form, without engaging legs and hip flexors.

And be patient. It takes several months of doing this to see changes that last. And years of it to 'cement' the change in your system.

Lunges with one leg behind you are great because you work the glute on one leg while stretching the hip flexors on other. Remember to warm up by doing some slow knee raisers, like exagerated stomping the ground.

Im a doc and I lift, try to find a doc thats into same things as you body wise.
Had same problem and fixed it by doing the exercises while I was still at Uni.

It takes time and dedication and you gotta do everything right.

Bdw what were your routines in the past? Lots of pushups maybe? Leg raisers?

this is why we have the internet boys

look up stuart mcgill

he himself says that you're probably better off treating your own back pain than going to professionals

unironically recommending crunches

it's one of the wrost things you can do for your lower back, even with "proper" form as you call it

you being a doc just proves the point of

t. Pajeet

how should he strengthen his core then? Share.

Slav, but nice try. If I were engineer maybe ud be right.

exercises that strengthen the entire core without using an insane amount of force

curlups
bird dogs
planks
suitcase carries
pushups with one hand pointing to the right to create uneven loading
"stirring the pot"

amongst others

modified curl-ups*

Tehe

>planks
>pushups

99.9% of people engage hip flexors in those exercises.

You done fucked up son.

Its easier to do crunches without raising whole back, just the head and shoulders, than to do proper plank or pushups.

Pushups were exactly what fucked me up.

How many of you squeeeeeeeze the glutes on every rep of pushups? Even the last ones?

I speak from experience. Not just countless books.

Anyways, even crunches wont do much without lunges. Its just to hit the core the best way possible.

nice pussypad arnold

No exercise routine in the past, just used to swim and play tennis, except for yeah, pushups. Which I did regularly when I was in high school, then stopped, but can still do like 80 easily despite being pretty weak. Did pushups fuck me up more?

So lunges is all it takes, or at least that did it for you? I always heard crunches were bad for kyphosis.

OP You might have something called Scherumanns Disease. Basically it's an osetochronditis of the upper spine that causes abnormal growth. Luckily most cases are harmless, it's somewhat common, and in minor cases it corrects its self partially when you Maintain good posture. People with it also have wide and broad chests, so you have an advantage in bench press. However in more moderate and severe cases it can be painful. You should consider getting X-rays to see if it's minor or rarely severe.This one base ball player named Hunter Pence has it too.

t. Med student.

why do you ignore everything i say and start ramble about irrelevant shit?

i didn't even mention pushups.

>Its easier to do crunches without raising whole back, just the head and shoulders

This is what a modified curl-up is, almost: youtube.com/watch?v=sPxbYHh3caQ the first 10 seconds.

>than to do proper plank

they are not even equivalent, they train different parts of the core, specially side planks which are the most important

>How many of you squeeeeeeeze the glutes on every rep of pushups? Even the last ones?

I know you're talking about pushups, but the same apply to planks, and yes, that's what you do. If you lose the glutes you stop immediately.

>Anyways, even crunches wont do much without lunges. Its just to hit the core the best way possible.

But it doesn't hit the "core" the best way possible. It damages the spine by putting huge loads under flexion. It doesn't hit the entire core either.

Got my spine X-rayed in my teens so no, I don't have Scheuermann's. And I'm pretty sure Scheuermann's can't be corrected with good posture, or at all without surgery, since it's a deformation of the vertebrae.

Also I don't think kyphosis causes a wide chest but rather a deep one, that is a barrel chest. Which I kind of sort of have a bit.

Are you sure squats are a bad idea? It just seems like a more efficient way to work the core than lunges. What about placing the bar low, so it's held not by the spine but by the upper back muscles?

Push ups per se arent bad, but ppl dont know to do them. I've seen many guys do rigid - straight body pushups but what they do is hang on their hip flexors. You and me were those guys.

Swimming, think about it, its hyper extending the spine, many ppl, especially kids hyper extend the spine while swimming. It looks funny but
kids can do it cuz their spine is not yet fully calcified.

Swimming maybe even aggravates the issue for you? It did for me. Docs recommend it because they think you are floating in water ergo spine not loaded. What should be specified, you should float, not swim in the manner you thought.

Warm up well. Do 4 sets of lunges (bw no extra weight), do some crunches without weight, never hyper-extend! Ironically, back extensions help to, but for now dont do them. I could give you a detailed routine but we need to talk more to determine where you at with other exercises and goals, and how the rehab will modulate all that. ''everything is connected''

>pushups with one hand pointing to the right to create uneven loading

or as Id call it - sudokuing the spine. (if the guy doing them has problems with his spine) for healthy ppl it can be useful.

I know I tried doing it, torquing unstable spine is not wise.

You can place the bar wherever you want, as long as it hangs of your arms, it loads your spine. Front squats are better for back tho. And not going to deep. Front keep your spine more vertical which enables better loading, avoids forces that try to slide vertebrae off each other.

also, you lunge not for core, but to get the proper tension ratios between hip flexors and extensors (glutes).

>that I shouldn't squat because I have a round back.

I think he was commenting on your form, straighten that shit out yo, and go light.

i dno m8

you just ignore everything i say

keep living in denial

im right though

your advice is absolute dogshit and ppl will get hurt listening to you

please, for the love of god, don't listen to this guy

Well I'm really nowhere in particular, other than that I started 5x5 three weeks ago like I said, with additional pullups and running. I was just going for general strength, incidentally hoping it would improve my back in the process.

I much appreciate your help btw, it's the first time I find someone who actually seems to know my issue and how to fix it (I'm assuming you fixed it for yourself).

List all your exercises?

5x5 is too agressive for now imo. Higher rep sets are better for you. No one should start with 5x5.

Im glad I can help man, I really love this biomechanical stuff.

Literally just squat, bench, bent over rows, ohp, and deadlift, also pullups.

>No one should start with 5x5.
It's a beginner's program though.

That curl-up looks interesting, if it actually works core without making you bend your upper back maybe I should try that.