Group that didn't lift weights at all but took steroids built almost twice as much muscle as natty group that lifted...

if you take a minimum amount it'll make minimal difference. Cycles mean elevating your test levels to about 10 times what the body naturally produces.

that seems excessive

1/2
>what's the point of being natty and why should i wait until i hit my "genetic" limit first if by simply taking steroids i can sit on my ass and get there twice as fast as i can being natty and lifting?
A sense of achievement and you don't have to worry about side effects. With that said, you still have to train to control where the muscle is filling out your frame.

>just how true is all of this?
I think the article UNDERSTATES the difference between steroids and natty.

>do steroids really make that big of a difference?
The difference is night and day. It's impossible to do it justice. Pic related is just the tip of the iceberg. The average guy with 2.5 years of training looks like TrainToLookGoodNaked if he's lucky. And even he is dyel compared to a decent sized fake natty, let alone an IFBB pro as you can see.

I fell for the "You need to train for 10 years and eat clean before touching gear" meme myself. It turns out a lot of bodybuilders walking around at 250 lb and 7 percent bodyfat are eating McDonald's multiple times a day. Dave Palumbo ate McDonald's seven days a week weighing 285 lb at 5 percent bodyfat. Not joking.

2/2

Phil Heath TURNED PRO and starting win pro competitions after 2.5 years of training thanks to gear and God mode genetics. But as good as genetics are, he wouldn't be top 10 at nationals without gear.

Anyway, getting back to just how big a difference steroids and other gear can make, read this story. It's fucking mind blowing.

"Through Facebook, in the Summer of 2005, I became friends with a kid that went on to become "Mr. Tampa". He was my very first friend at the University of Florida and we are still tight today.He said he was 21 years old, 6-0 235 lbs at 8% bodyfat. When I finally met him in the Fall, he turned out to be 6-0 250 lbs at 7% bodyfat. Arms were 20.5".

A real fucking freakshow.

Jesus Christ.

He told me, much to my surprise, that his diet consisted of multiple trips to McDonalds (or Burger King, Chick-Fil-a, Taco Bell, etc.) for literally ALL his meals.

He wasn't joking either. Multiple times a day, he would gulp down 128 oz sodas full of high-fructose corn syrup to wash down 2500-3000 calories of burgers, fries and apple pies. When I saw this, I couldn't believe what the fuck I was seeing. I had to figure out how he was doing it. Most people would be morbidly obese if they followed that diet for 9 days.

The experts on bodybuilding forums told me the real hardcore guys ate chicken and brown rice for every meal, what the hell was going on?

How was he eating so much fast food and staying so lean?

Over the next few years, I would learn a lot of his secrets, secrets that you absolutely cannot find on public bodybuilding forums, secrets that most people simply would not believe.

This was the craziest one.

After I figured out the secret, I felt like I was part of a secret superhuman society.
(AASB - the alliance of anti-social bodybuilders!)

I started cheating the system too."

goodlookingloser.com/juiced/how-do-bodybuilders-eat-so-much-fast-food-and-stay-lean-mcdonalds-bodybuilder-diet

That Naga....

Wouldn't some heart growth be a GOOD thing for people like me who have weak hearts?

Only a faggoty retard would ever wait to hit the natty limit

My natty limit is so fucking high I'll never need to roid. Random people come up to me saying "dat physique" weekly. I take supplements that help a lot though.

it's a hell of a commitment and you have to break the law and potentially be a social pariah if people find out

also some health risks that can be mostly mitigated

Daily reminder that this study is bullshit and you built pretty much zero fucking muscle and have zero fucking definition and look 100% dyel if you are on steroids and dont lift.

Go on faggots, do it. Do a 500mg test cycle for 20 weeks, and dont lift. I wanna see your tiny bubbles crushed

Yes, steroids make your balls shrink because it shuts down your test production in the testicles.

Go use SARMS, they are way safer than steroids and they don't fuck up your hormones so you wont get "shut down" like on steroids (bad dick to ball ratio; ball shrinkage). There are plenty of people who have done bloodwork to prove this, just make sure what you are taking is really a SARM and not a pro-hormone, as pro-hormones can fuck you even more up than good old steroids.

I recommend LGD-4033 10mg a day for 12 weeks. You'll gain so much god damn lean muscle mass, it's crazy. I'm already considered "big" by everyone I know, but I still want to get bigger and then get ripped.

>LGD-4033
if that shit really worked it would be banned already but it's not. so why is that?

It's sold as a "research chemical" here in Europe as they are still considered "experimental". They would never allow SARMS to be sold without prescription or over the counter, because they were developed for people who have muscle loss (forgot what it's called).

It really does fucking work, try it. I couldn't believe how much muscle I've put on since my first cycle, now I'm on my second.

People keep commenting on my physique and women want to feel my biceps and chest.

It doesn't grow in a good way.
Syndromes that cause the heart to grow out of control are almost invariably lethal, it's basically a slightly less dangerous version of a heart-shaped tumor. And steroids give you a one-way ticket to getting the same heart as a chronic genetically diseased patient.

It's also why pretty much every single steroid-related death is due to heart attack/trombosis.

Sooner or later, your heart is going to shit the bed, no matter how "safe" you are, no matter what "totally safer steroid derivate" you're using, and no matter how much you plug your ears to ignore the "shills" telling you it's dangerous.

Pretty much everyone on this board raving about how steroids are totally safe and that their risks are just "media sensationalism" are probably in their mid-20s and haven't had to watch an X-ray of their malformed insides yet.

but lifting in itself raises your test levels. wouldn't that also make your heart grow?

You don't lift by grabbing the bar with your heart (hopefully).
The only exercise your heart gets is pumping blood, and it's not even that taxing on it unless you're doing long distance running or sprinting (lifting by comparison is a joke, as far as the heart is concerned).
And even then, the bigger it gets, the harder it is for it to mantain its mass, so it usually ends up going back down in size. Something steroids would prevent from happening.

A heart's growth on steroids is in a completely different realm from natural growth

>just how true is all of this?
As true as the results of any other study.

>do steroids really make that big of a difference?
Obviously, otherwise the entire olympic and sports industries wouldn't take them.

Almost all of the side effects of the common steroids are due to fluctuating blood hormone levels- if you dose and cycle properly you can take considerably large amounts and remain side effect free. Obviously there are limits, but the principle is the same throughout any range: take them properly and avoid coming on and off or changing cycle and you're very probably going to be side effect free.

Growth, sure, but this side effect is the result of higher than normal blood pressure, which is almost always a bad thing.

600mg/week or less is low and side effect free for 99.9% of the population when taken properly. Above 600mg/week is where side effects start to become more likely. HRT is 200mg/week and considered too safe by most endos.

>Cycles mean elevating your test levels to about 10 times what the body naturally produces.
Ridiculous generalisation to the point of falsehood.

In reality, the answer to
>what's the point of being natty and why should i wait until i hit my "genetic" limit first if by simply taking steroids i can sit on my ass and get there twice as fast as i can being natty and lifting?
Is that lifting natty teaches you responsibility, discipline and common sense, all of which are required in spades when using steroids.
People who fuck themselves up on steroids are almost invariably people who already had shitty habits and haven't lifted long enough to understand what's going on.

I don't think you necessarily need to wait to hit the "natty limit" but you should absolutely have at least a couple years under your belt, understand what you're doing and the possible effects AND be at least 30 before you take steroids in anything other than a competitive athletic situation

I did one 15 week test e 600mg cycle.

Is my heart going to go boom? :((((

Where can I do more research on this?

Do you lose it afterwards though?

Hey... pat. You know how I know you don't know shit about roids. Because uhm..
Test only won't do shit to enlarge your heart only a few compounds like hgh and gh do that.

No stupid. As long as you keep diet and workout the same. And pct so your t levels aren't that of a 60 yr old man.

The difference is lifting is like a 10% increase and people taking steroids are having a 1000%+ increase.

I have trouble finding progress pics when it comes to sarms. Any good pics?

No. Just do test. It's more researched, safe as fuck and more potent.

>The men in the exercise groups received controlled, supervised strength training three days per week during the treatment period.
>Regardless of the actual weights lifted, the training was held constant at four sets with six repetitions per set

So they forced the men to train for strength rather than hypertrophy and then were shocked when they didn't gain much muscle mass?

Steroids are safe. But it's like eating candy. Candy is safe... I. Safe doses. You will get diabetes if you over due it tho. But if you do cardio and workout you can eat a moderate amount u til you die of old age.
Everything else is fear mongering from natty dyels. The more test only oriented you steroid use is the better. But that's up to you as an individual.

The only reason I haven't done roids is because I wouldn't be able to afford it for life. The reason why UFC stopped the TRT program is that your hormones fluctuate forever in most cases, and hormones change mood, energy, intelligence, behavior not just muscle capacity.

I'm a bitch when it comes to injections and feel like I'd fuck up somehow even after reading about how to and would probably already be on test if it was an oral.

Look up videos on youtube, plenty of people give good information on it. There are also many forums where they discuss SARMS.

You keep all your gains. With LGD-4033 you might have a little water retention (varies for people), which you will lose, but your lean muscles will all stay.

SARMS are oral.

Have fun getting cancer from the chinese expetimental shit

What happens if you are lifting for years and decide to cruise on 100/200 mg test.

This shit is gonna give me that 1% of natty on my alrrady existing gains and better sexual drive but with no sides?

i was a faggot just like you, but i can assure you its literally easier than plucking your faggot eyebrows

Pictures please man. Before&after for natty, first cycle, second cycle.

WE /fraud/ NAO

>100
nothing

>200
good gains over a longer period of time, maybe higher libido.

>no sides
You still shut down your natural test production. But otherwise you can never tell. You may or may not get acne. You may or may not get gyno. You may or may not get high blood pressure.

All those may or may not are easily fixed on light doses of ai.

good post

Lol just lol.

nfl and olympic athletes have repeatedly come out saying that 50%+ of athletes are on juice yet only 1% of athletes get caught.

Everyone who is natty is above ANYONE who takes steroids. If you don't take steroids, you're either a part of a small percentage of people who don't want to because they're scared of the side effects, OR you are part of the majority that lift for hobby reasons and due to the fact that they are mentally sound, they can enjoy natural progress.
AS someone who feels guilty about gym gains because gyms aren't really natural, I don't understand how someone can pump themselves up with testosterone and somehow become satisfied with themselves.
Truly degenerates to nearly all people.

>acne
hmm no, i get acne even if i have estro in check
>gyno
yes easily
>high blood pressure
to some extent yes

>acne: check
>gyno: check
>hbp: check

are you advocating steroids or are you against them?

Just take creatine m8

Tell that to Stallone

uhm, neither. I dont go around telling people "steroids are great brah take em no sides brah trust me brah". I think everyone should decide for themselves if they should hop on, and do alot of research before they even consider buying that shit. Steroids are obviously not healthy and i am never going to deny that, but i think for certain people they can provide such quality of life changes that they overshadow the bad side of it. I think people need to look deep into their hearts and think for themselves :
>do i really need them? Will my life be better with steroids? Why do i even want them?

So if you truly think about this question, and you have a strong and definitive "yes" for it, i guess its time to go for dat dere cattle hormone gains.

Do they hurt the liver? Been a big drinker, working to quit, but do I need to be quit like six months to a year before starting?
Is there any truth to people who say one cycle can stop natty test production forever?

Testosterone is fucking awesome!!!

No only oral steroids.

no, only oral steroids hurt your liver, injectables dont.

>natty test shutdown forever
no, myth

Yes

Completely true you can quit when ever as Long and only as Long as you get you testosterone levels back to natural and keep all your gains as Long as your diet and workout is good. Only people that shrink are people who got so big even past their natural limit that even if they go back to natural their muscles are so unnaturally large they won't be maintained by natty t levels. But thats like monstrous big. You don't have to worry about that yet lmao. Or ever.

Chance of your kids becoming potatoes

you'd think with the obesity epidemic in america that physicians would be more apt to provide steroids on a supervised basis to their patients.

The point is being a normal, well adjusted person. Only autists on fit and other gymbros give a shit how big and cut you are. At best you can attract sluts just as shallow as roiders. Being natty means overall much better health and a body that actually appeals to the majority of the opposite gender.

Not to mention how any decent girl would react if she found out you inject your ass and spend thousands to feed your insecurities.

>obesety is linked with heart problems
>steroids is obviously the way to fix it
Are you retarded son?

No, hearts become weaker as they grow. I cant quite remember the physiology behind it but its true. Compensation size growth leads to weaker stroke volume and higher beat rate.

steroids aren't for fatasses who will die from over exertion

its for the rest of the population who can benefit from juicy gains

and if the fatties take steroids and die then that's just a bonus. you're not defending fatties, are you user?

How about actually encouraging a healthy lifestyle instead of having buff house potatoes with even worse health.
Do you even think about what you're saying?

>implying you can't be healthy and be on gear

are you retarded, user?

I came here for 3 years and got my bench to 270 before I found out my testosterone was 161. You stfu with your bullshit faggot. Everyone thinks they have good genes even if you make some gains you still might not. But fucj that right lift on low t for the rest of your life right you don't need to progress. Only a dyel would say that.

Also youre assuming people good let alone workout for girls like your mentally weak ass. you should just fucking kill yoyrself.

So you're saying on average being on gear and sitting on your ass is healthier than eating well and exercising regularly.

Kek, enjoy spending thousands to impress other men and bang sluts.

So you're saying on average being on gear and sitting on your ass is healthier than eating well and exercising regularly.

no you obtuse mongoloid i'm saying being on gear and working out should be easy and safe to do by working with your physician.

That had nothing to do with obesity, you were basically saying it's a good idea to give fatties steroids.

And why should physicians do so? There is are health benefits, only bad side effects. Doctors have no business catering to your insecurities/obsessions. They're there to manage your health.

yes i want fatties to die on steroids

doctors can and do cater to insecurities and obsessions. dentists do it. psychiatrists do it. plastic surgeons do it. ob/gyns do it. they all do it.

Yes, they do. But they shouldn't, it's not the right or moral thing to do. They do it purely to take people's money.

okay mr. moral police. fuck off with your high horse bullshit.

I DON LIEK IT THEREFOR NOONE SHULD BE ALOUD 2 DO IT

Steroids are cheap.
I good cause I work in law and want to take down regards with ease. And cause I had low T anyway to begin with.
I'm alrdy married I could give a shit about sluts. You seem to not be able to think of reasons to lift or use roods outside of girls. Kys my dude.

It's objectively worsens society.
Health is the main benefit. And what's your reason for taking steroids? To look like a fucking gorilla? Unless your competing in don't see any good reason to inject your ass.

I just told you I have low T buddy? And I'm a cop so it helps with handli g people. Again repeating myself here. Steroids are also safe as Long as you're not blasting all the time and don't keep your blood pressure high or do insane toxic compounds. Testosterone only is safe as fuck. You know nothing jon snow.

Pro tip steroids don't just make you gorilla huge. Look at UFC fighters Olympians etc. Again kys