So do you think psychedelic state induced by psilocybin mushrooms might be a manifestation of mycelial intelligence and...

No but its pretty

The patterns are surely your brain trying to make sense of things and ordering it around

I have often wondered such things. Namely, whether objects and things that I would consoder inanimate are actually sentient on some level. For instance, I usually feel as though I am being directly influenced by the moon or stellar objects. Or as if they are implanting thoughts in my head. They seem random, as if there was no logical build up to a thought, so it is more of a revelation.

This is all while on hallucinogens, of course.

The biggest realization is that we may not be in control of our destiny, but the cosmos is. What if superior beings decide our fate? What if what we perceive as chaos is simply the manifestation of an order so immense that we could not fathom it?

No. Although I do believe (as McKenna does) that shrooms and other organic psychedelic compounds are plausible as the missing link in the days of early humans that developed consciousness.

How is human intelligence euclidean?

One can say that plants, fungi, insects, arachnids and other animals have all developed (evolved) their own intelligence. Plants grow in a way that they use the wind or insects of animals to spread pollen, fungi are adapted to their environments and mycelium is used as a big nutrition transport network that enables plants to thrive.

>What if what we perceive as chaos is simply the manifestation of an order so immense that we could not fathom it?

This is my personal cosmology. Underlying quantum mechanics are things so incomprehensible that all the effort of greatest minds ever will never be able to see let alone comprehend. Same with things on the largest scales.

No you delusional retard

The thing about psyches is that they do basically fuck up bits of the brain like people in this thread are saying, but it's that fact that "you" are still there experiencing that while it's happening that people find so profound. I've only done one hallucinogen, and as example I had my perception and experience of space and time warped and completely turned off in some places. Now if you haven't experienced that it sounds very cliched, but if you can actually experience it the implications of it run off for miles. All the things you see and feel can be very beautiful or scary or whatever but they're just side effects of what the substance is doing, which is screw around with things in the deepest catacombs of your brain, and when you're there and thinking about this while it's happening, you realize that life, "you", is still "happening", even when it makes no sense in the concrete terms that you've always lived in that you should even be able to conceive of these states and perceptions. And psyches aren't the only route to experiencing this, they're just the fastest contrasting agent there is, you'll get the same thing without the hallucinations and delusions (to a degree) by meditating, or going through extreme experiences, or sometimes out of no where. That's what those people mean when they say that psychedelics are like years of therapy, because they leave you alone with yourself and take the brakes off and strap rockets to everything. Psychedelics aren't the answer, they're just a tool for getting there, and in my humble opinion that answer is Taoism, which I came to after lots of thinking initiated by that hiccup in reality that I had on LSD, but then again maybe I'm wrong and all my sober thoughts are now tainted by toxic chemicals.

never heard of anyone claiming they reveal any secret truths just that they say they love you, show off their toys, and then say goodbye

t. kid who sat alone at lunch

Hahahaha of course not retard
Literally the dumbest conclusion you could come to

Great arguments.

I think they're just pleasant drugs that seem to make your thoughts, perspectives, and emotions move in interesting directions. Allegedly they can quell an addiction, help you think about a problem in a different way leading to a solution, and cure depression. Other than that it's just a good time and until we find out how exactly they affect us and why, they'll be fascinating.

I know this is bait, but that's like a mix of dudebro and straight edge autism understanding of psychedelics so I imagine you're mostly unironic.

> you take something that makes your brain not function like it's supposed to
People do things all the time that changes the way their brain functions. Sugar, coffee, adrenaline, love. These are all things that change the way your brain works. Life is not much else other than your brain functioning, the changes you make to it by choice, and the changes the world makes to it by experience.

> you end up thinking you've discovered something about some hidden reality.
Burnt out hippies believe this. I admit in terms of people who call themselves "psychonauts" this is a fact, but the reality is just that psychedelic substances are a temporary method to change your perception to the world. Personally, I don't find much else other than therapeutic value in hallucinogens and a general sense of well being.

There are other ways to achieve this perception shift. Namely meditation. Psychedelic drugs are not a replacement for meditating, but if you seek that sense of well being and perception shift they are an alternative to meditation.

The rest of your analogy is retarded. There's nothing to substantiate that eating mushrooms is the same as frying your GPU. There is an inherent danger in people who are predisposed to certain mental disorders, but otherwise mushrooms are safe to consume.

Mushrooms are not a portal to an outer dimension. They are merely drugs you eat to feel different. That can be good or bad depending how you go about it.

For mushrooms? No. Mushrooms, LSD, peyote, ayahuasca, and to a degree the entactogen family are all the same thing in different concentrations, and it's established that the amine psychedelic substance evolved as a pest-deterrent like capsaicin. Serotonin is a convulsive poison to slugs, and I think even McKenna acknowledged this in his writing.

It's a matter beyond dispute that 5ht only makes you "trip" because in vertebrates 5ht evolved with more complex cross-signaling relationships in the cortex.

If there was a way to communicate with a hypothetical "non-Euclidean superintelligence" it wouldn't be through serotonin signaling, it would be through pain.

The color red, a smell, etc, exist because that's their basest electrical configuration. But what about the "sixth" sense of pain perception?

How does something inherently feel hurtful? Why is it that torture can make you hallucinate? Why is it that hypothermia can make you hallucinate? Why is it that anesthetics can make you hallucinate, before your hippocampus is turned off and you no longer encode information? Why is it that people hallucinate on their deathbed?

>take mushrooms
>trip out
>maybe the mushrooms are talking to me!
Imagine being this fucking stupid

Also not Veeky Forums related so fuck off back to 420chan.

>How does something inherently feel hurtful? Why is it that torture can make you hallucinate? Why is it that hypothermia can make you hallucinate? Why is it that anesthetics can make you hallucinate, before your hippocampus is turned off and you no longer encode information? Why is it that people hallucinate on their deathbed?
Now you realize how all the Holocaust bullshit got invented, Jews mass hallucinating.

imagine being so close minded, so inexplicably close minded, that when every time your ontology is compromised you sperg out trying to defend it. psychedelics are largely unstudied. is it that ridiculous to suggest that, in altered states of consciousness, the mind can process information in a way that may be interpreted as 'superintelligencce'?

take DMT for instance. back in the 90s this guy Strassman did some clinical studies where 20% of people reported the same experience while tripping

...

>(((Strassman)))
JUST TAKE PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS GOY

>all those people stumbled around and saw the room spin when they were drunk
>therefore there's a serious possibility that booze transports you into the Spinning Dimension

To a great reply.

why do you keep posting this

kek

No, I think psilocybin mushrooms are a nice gift from nature to enjoy at least once in a lifetime. I don't think there's anything more than that but I have to say; the last time I ate some and I was sitting at the beach enjoying the waves and the sand and the sun and letting my mind wander, I honestly could see/feel people's energy around them. Everyone who walked by emitted a different colour and intensity and I felt my mood swing with them. That's the only thing that happened of which I'm still not sure what to think of it.
I hope the research in treating depression continues and doesn't get blocked by BigPharma, I do think it could help people to change their outlook on life

*does DMT once*
>DUDE TERRANCE MCKENNA LMAO

t. never tripped before
DMT hits you a bit harder than the spins. All I'm arguing is that the phenomena is at least worth investigating. Here's a paper that outline a pretty neat experiment to do so.

Abstract:
,N-dimethyltryptamine, or DMT, is an endogenous psychoactive
chemical that has been shown through repeated human subject experimentation
to provide the subject with a perception of an 'alternate reality'. When
administered a sufficient DMT dose, subjects have reported the presence of
intelligent beings that do not appear to be the projections of their subconscious
in the Freudian sense. Furthermore, and of particular interest to this article,
many subjects believe that the perceived alternate reality is persistent in that it
exists irrespective of their subjective momentary perception. Past research into
the DMT-induced alternate reality comes solely from subject testimonies and to
date, no analysis has been conducted to understand the objective aspects of
these extraordinary subjective claims. This article provides a methodology for
studying the nature of the DMT-induced alternate reality by means of various
simple information theory experiments. These experiments can be used to test
which of the presented interpretations of the DMT-induced alternate reality
appear most plausible.

scientificexploration.org/docs/21/jse_21_1_rodriguez.pdf

We try and explain and understand these phenomenon, and to the Western mind that is so accustomed to linear modalities of thinking, we crave the satisfaction of understanding complex concepts through finite models.

My own personal experience with psychedelics, including acid and Mother Ayahuasca, has convinced me that this is an inappropriate way of approaching these mind-altering substances. Whether these drugs reveal deep parts of our subconscious, promote communication with other entities, or are merely noise in our perception of reality, really doesn't matter so much at the end of the day. What matters is the insight we gain into our understanding of life and our place in the universe.

My personal belief is that no matter how great our knowledge, our wisdom, our perception... there will always be that which is beyond our understanding. With this, we accept that faith is a requirement for the human experience. Whether that faith manifests itself as belief in God, or some other philosophy is up for debate. But I believe that man should be humble in the face of infinity, that it where God dwells.

>never tripped before
You're saying it like it's a bad thing. Get fucked junkie faggot.

t. Big pharma

In the west we are intoxicated by rationality. But in Buddhism, there is the saying that the world is like a house that is burning down. We are arguing about the rules that govern the house, but the house or the world is impermanent. Perhaps it is better to not ask how something works, but instead look for the meaning in a process.

After I took Ayahuasca, I got baptized. While I admit there is the distinct possibility that Jesus Christ was a historical figure, and that everything in the Bible is a true testament of the power of God, my main motivation for this spiritual development was to show my dedication to the principles of Christ, and I accept willingly, that there are powers beyond human comprehension.

So I don't get hung up on dogma anymore. I don't hate other peoples or races anymore. I accept the divine in all things.

I really don't expect, or believe, people who have never taken psychedelics to understand me. All I can say is your mental state is so radically different from the norm, and the conclusions your mind comes too are so alien and foreign, you wonder whether they really are yours, or some other powers.

My visions were extremely profound and moved me to the point where I have radically changed my lifestyle and convictions. For example, aside from having the baptism, I am also a strict vegetarian, and I want to become a nurse, a career I never would have dreamed of pursuing prior to taking Ayahuasca.

As for McKenna, I think he was a very eloquent speaker. But I feel like he didn't really get much personal insight from his experiences with drugs (especially DMT). I think he was the kind of guy who was entranced by the visual spectacle, and focused more on that than being introspective.

Imagine being so scared of your own psyche that you refuse to explore it.

t. tripped once and couldn't handle it

We truly need to go full Duterte on your junkie asses. RWDS when?

People get comfortable having a simple, closed worldview that basically explain everything. Challenging the pillars of our worldview is scary, because it reveals a deep down fear that we truly don't understand our reality.

Right after you take a free helicopter ride

>Jewish psychobabble

It's just chemicals faggot.

The sort of people that do shit like read an article on string theory, trip, then think they've had an epiphany about how "dude we're all like vibrating energy beings that ascend and descend on planes of existence and our dimension is like only one of those" shit me off, but psychedelics can be a useful tool for introspection aside from the recreational aspect.

im 30 and have no idea how to get my hands on shrooms or lsd. How?

$20 bucks for a ten trip on a DNM

but it's humanities related you spaced-out dolt.

>DNM
Nice DEA honeypots you got there rabbi.

>EVERYTHING IS HUMANITIES

Wouldn't be LSD that cheap surely

You're a fucking idiot if you think the DEA gives a fuck about a casual user. if you have decent OSPEC you're fine. Here's a list of every DNM related arrest up till 2015, notice how they're all sellers.
gwern.net/DNM-arrests

Not gonna lie you run the chance of getting research chemicals if you don't go for trusted vendors. but honestly, LSD is ez to make in mass because the dosage size is so low. The real cost is in distribution. DNM's make that easy because it's just mailing a piece of paper

Know any college kids? I'll say I was never one to maintain drug connections, just do them when my friend procured them, and its really hard as a working adult to find cool drugs unless you are in certain circles.

He types just before the FBI stings his 2c-i order.

When did it become acceptable to demand arguments when you never fielded one yourself?

It's the ultimate misdirection.

>wellllll you don't have an argument
>no YOU DONT HAVE AN ARGUMENT

Not an argument

All that Eastern search for spirituality and it led to the Opium wars and the utter supplantation of the East by the utilitarian West.

Only after the East itself adopted utilitarianism has it been able to succeed. Your babble is all very well for monks in their high temple, but it doesn't get you to the Moon.

I enjoyed his implication that psilocybin is an alien organism that was seeded on our planet (as other planets) to help facilitate our evolution from an animal to a 'higher intelligence'.

Basically the monoliths in 2001.

This. Very interesting narrative possibilities here.

Maybe if I act real tough on the internet daddy will love me.

Neither is your Hebrew screeching.

Who are you trying to entertain, loser? You're probably the reason your parents got divorced.

Yes it is.

No it isn't. You deserve to get killed.

Ok, user

Wait wait wait what? Did you write that to confuse us, or are you a smart as who got shrooms?

I bought a 50 piece blotter sheet for $120 bucks. That's, all else considered, a decent trip a week for most of the year.

The "long" lasting psychedelics are one of the cheapest forms of entertainment, even when getting doggy pounded by governments. But instead of selling you an acid blot for cheap, society gives you $10 popcorn and some piece of shitty west LA jew trash film. The ticket was another $15.

Or how do I say this...mass psychedelics would ruin the pension of many a good boomer. :^)

wew lad

Where?? DNM?

Tfw you realise you were God all along.

>t. never tripped before

I'm the first guy you replied to, and I'm not ruling out your perspective, just suggesting there needs to be much more rigor in a field this subjective and experiential.

Rodriguez, and to a degree even Strassman, would better suit their disciplines by breaking DMT experiences down to the most naturalistic components. Giving it to the deaf or blind, to examine whether they also identify "beings", or whether the autonomous perceptions are more clearly reducible to faculties of their own brains. I have, in fact, tripped before and with a blind acquaintance - who does not experience faces or visual artifacts as the sighted, and strongly suggest to me that interesting as it is, DMT is making the brain look inward rather than look into something outside itself.

Salvia is a different story altogether. That's why I'm actually working on it in my dissertation. IF you're not personally familiar, salvia is to DMT what DMT is to cannabis.

I love how you made a perfectly apt post that got to the heart of this thread and pissed off all the hippies that think they're literally communicating with another dimension rather than different parts of their brain.

>subjects have reported the presence of
intelligent beings that do not appear to be the projections of their subconscious

And how the fuck would you know? Why is your conclusion that they must be alien beings rather than the way more likely explanation that it's just your unconscious?

>dude machine elves lmao do you watch Joe Rogan bro?
>it's just your subconscious maaaaan we're all chemical lmao

Both POVs in this thread should read the literature on anesthetics and out-of-body experience. Ketamine, which has no structural similarity to LSD at all, has been confirmed as recently as 2014 to induce "out of body experiences" and works not by EXCITING the brain but by DEACTIVATING it. Literally killing you. It's an NMDAR blocker that causes the electrical activity inside your cortex to freeze until there's no communication at all outside the theta band. Paradoxically, this causes massive hallucinatory states that do not make anatomical sense for an organ that's supposed to be shut down. A similar alkaloid, ibogaine, is almost as potent and actually permeates your Purkinje cell afference, chemically convincing your cortex that your heart has stopped and that brain activity has ceased - even though the rest of your spine and you heart don't get the memo, and keep you happily breathing away in a comatose/near-death state.

>dude I'm the rational one here
>and works not by EXCITING the brain but by DEACTIVATING it. Literally killing you.

Are you fucking kidding me?

And I'm just going to keep going because your post here is garbage,

>there's no communication at all outside the theta band. Paradoxically, this causes massive hallucinatory states that do not make anatomical sense for an organ that's supposed to be shut down

This is wrong. Theta waves does not mean that your brain is "shut off"

There are few things on this Earth more annoying to me than people using vocabulary that sounds right, but their actual message is total bullshit.

And yeah fuckhead, we are all electrochemical activity in our brains. If you hallucinate, you are not in another fucking dimension, you are still inside your head.

There's nothing wrong with what I said. The dissociation of ketamine intoxication is experientially comparable to near-death dissociation in hyper and hypothermic stress conditions.
This property is exploited therapeutically to prevent brain damage in ischemia and CA++ cascade events.
An endogenous neuroprotective that shares ketamine-like function, agmatine, has been identified in rats and demonstrated to perfuse the cerebrum during cold stress events.
Is muting the instrumental CA++ influx in an action potential not enough to qualify as "deactivation"? Does the lack of hallucinatory features from excitotoxic calcium waves not contribute to this notion?

Theta band activity distinguishes NMDAR antagonists from traditional GABAnergic anesthetics, esp. propofol, which are not renowned for bizarre psychotomimetic features.
It's as "dead" as you can get with a hippocampus still active enough to register theta waves in EEG analysis, which is significantly different from the cortical clusterfuck of LSD and indolamine intoxication.

Best post ITT