If the liberals had somehow won in 1848, what would the resultant German state have been like, compared to Bismarck's Empire?
If the liberals had somehow won in 1848, what would the resultant German state have been like...
As an addendum, I'm referring to the culture, politics and society, not necessarily the ebin GroBgemaniums borders.
It would start a general European war early because Liberals were tremendous spastic nationalists, the kind Bismarck was trying to reign in.
We're looking at the dissolution of Austria which means Russia and the Ottomans start muscling each other earlier than the Crimean War, Italy probably unifies earlier without Austria to enforce any influence, France probably shits itself
>implying nationalists start wars
More liberal and democratic, sort of like Britain
>France
>Belgium
>Netherlands
>Switzerland
>Austria
>Denmark
>the Baltic states
There were enough targets off overly zealous pan-nationalist autism around
Truly this is the worst timeline...
Do you think nationalism is autistic?
It certainly can be
Not necessarily. Overboarding pan-nationalism is though.
Anything can be though.
I consider myself a nationalist. But i am still a rational person.
"muh lebensraum" was autistic and stupid but other than that german nationalism was alright
Then you wouldn't have fit in with the liberal German crowd in 1848, they were all about being irrational
But thta's what the Großdeutsche Idee was all about
If nationalists like Robert Blum would have gotten their way, Germany wouldn't have been expansionist.
Some 1848 revolutionaries in Germany had ties with other nations' nationalists and opposed for example the Prussian occupation of Polish lands.
en.wikipedia.org
It dosen't really matter when the Frankfurt Assembly voted overwhelmingly in favour of a Greater Germany
Nah, it was primarily about simply uniting all the german lands, the green areas on that map which are actually connected to each other
Großdeutschland was simply the idea of a unified Germany with Austria included as opposed to Kleindeutschland (like the Empire of 1871). It didn't mean that non-German lands would have to be conquered.
en.wikipedia.org
Which at the very least would include annexing parts of France, Switzerland and Belgium
That's bullshit.
>The Großdeutsche Lösung ("Greater German solution") favored unifying all German-speaking peoples (excluding Switzerland) under one state
Just because the nationalists wanted to unite the German state wouldn't mean they'd instantly go to war with France over Alsace
I don't know much about it, but i take your word for it.
And? Whats the problem?
>It didn't mean that non-German lands would have to be conquered
Alsace was annexed because the liberals demanded it of a liberal king, the conservatives under Bismarck opposed it because it would totally fuck relations with France. If you're under the impression the German liberals were majority in favour of letting lands with German populations live under foreign regimes you're mistaken
Greater germany doesn't mean expansionism, it means austria (and the german lands outside the old HRE) are in.
As for poland, telling the prussians to give up lands to a (hypothetical, because russia) polish state because it is kinda sorta rightfully theirs wouldn't have gone over well.
Have you read the chain of replies?
By it's very nature establishing a united German state is expansionist though
Yeah, i just forgot. Still though, it is more the fault of the foreign oppressor that war breaks out than it is the fault of the nationalists.
No it doesn't? It simply means combining all German states...
>Unifying a bunch of consenting states is expansionist
Something really gay and faggy, like modern France or England.
>Still though, it is more the fault of the foreign oppressor that war breaks out than it is the fault of the nationalists.
>the liberals demanded it of a liberal king, the conservatives under Bismarck opposed it because it would totally fuck relations with France
Source please. I always understood that it was all nationalists in favour (mostly conservatives at this point, as liberal nationalism had ceased being a political power) and nobody opposing it (not even bismarck).
Most of the knowledge about Germany on Veeky Forums comes from Allied memes about the World Wars. Hence why a thread about the Frankfurt Parliament will usually die with 1-or-2 replies, but "le Germany must perish, Teutons destroy europe" thread will stay on Page 1 for days. For some reason, this thread seems to be a refreshing exception.
France shouldn't have owned Alsace in the first place, they were in the wrong for not giving it up peacefully
So nothing would change?
>France probably shits itself
assuming IRL events unfold as they did France, which was the only place where the 1848 revolution was succcessful, you're looking at a neo-Bonapartist France under Napoleon III and a much-sooner reunited Germany...and likely an earlier Franco-Prussian War
>Alsace was annexed because the liberals demanded it of a liberal king
[citation needed]