Every dyel in the gym deadlifts, squats, benchs, ohp (all the "good" excercises)

>every dyel in the gym deadlifts, squats, benchs, ohp (all the "good" excercises)
>all the giant mass monsters do endless 40 rep meme excercises like cable curls and cable side lateral raises, machine fly, etc.

Explain

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roids

They have surpassed the need to rely on those things

...

Lol this is actually true

Literally every big guy in my gym is minimum 4/5/6. I've seen some of the biggest guys rep out 200kg on the bench for 6 or 7. They all train compounds heavy and then do a ton of light assistance work for volume.

Once you have the base you can start focusing on muscle groups that will make you look like your favorite anime character.

true for my gym too

tfw i'm among these dyels doing squats and such

These trips speak the truth.

/tread

the guy in that photo is massively geared up, the way he trains and what works for him has no meaning for a natty

Nice, thanks for sharing

is that orazio? holy shit great content

But by this logic, you should still yield the same results in terms of mass (but on a much smaller scale) by following the same routine while not on roids.

Why would high intensity low weight be better just because you're on steriods ? If you're willing to take roids, you're probably going to train in the best range too so light weight high volume must be good for non roiders too.

And the people that don't look like dog shit do both.

>But by this logic, you should still yield the same results in terms of mass (but on a much smaller scale) by following the same routine while not on roids.

nope

>Why would high intensity low weight be better just because you're on steriods ?

because you are on hormones and your body is working differently, you build a pump in your muscles and they grow due to the crazy excess of hormones in your body, some people on roids do compounds and they are the strongest people on earth, but to be the biggest guy in your gym or to look like the guy in OP's pic or like Zyzz you can just load up on gear and go bang around haphazardly in the gym and get huge

>If you're willing to take roids, you're probably going to train in the best range too so light weight high volume must be good for non roiders too.

lol no, stop using your flawed reasoning and look at what works for people, for nattys they can only output so much work and need recovery time after so it's better to do heavy compounds, if you do light weight high reps as a natty you will just look deyl forever

S A M E
A
M
E

I KNEW IT

The only reason roiders go to the gym is to showoff.

not that user, but are you suggesting the mechanism of hypertrophy changes because of the presence of androgens (i.e. hormones that exist naturally in the body)?

if so please don't offer anymore advice on this forum

One of the smartest things i read on here was someone saying you dont need to do high rep sets till you are actually at their mass monster level.
Before that you are better off getting good at deads, squats, rows, ohp.

>if you do light weight high reps as a natty you will just look deyl forever

This is obviously wrong though

Lets take bench for example, if you were to bench 100lbs for 5 sets of 12, you will then need to increase the weight at some point (say to 110lbs) once you get 5 sets of 12 again you will increase and so on. You wont be pushing as big numbers as someone doing 3x5 but then they wont be doing near as many reps. The first person would 100% increase muscle mass and probably at a faster rate than the second, but with worse strength gains.

Just to take it further, the first person would eventually be pushing big numbers, but it would take a much longer time to get there, however their hyertrophy would be leagues beyond the second lifter.

To take it EVEN further, i'm sure you see loads of people doing 3x5 or 3x8 of 225lbs in the gym (i certainly do) but then how many of those can do 5x12, or would be as big as someone who could ?

>tfw I lift in a third world country (at least we have toilets)
>tfw my 4.5pl8s DL is the highest in the gym
>tfw i still look DYEL as fuark
>tfw I learned recently that most idiots that do what OP said take at least Anabol pills

>if you do light weight high reps as a natty you will just look deyl forever
sounds BS but maybe you have different view of not dyel

>Why would high intensity low weight be better just because you're on steriods ?
its not, higher rep is better for hyperthropy. Maybe the guys you are calling dyels are beginners?

>not that user, but are you suggesting the mechanism of hypertrophy changes because of the presence of androgens (i.e. hormones that exist naturally in the body)?

Yes I am suggesting that.

Just as a male who is relatively sedentary will gain more muscle during puberty than a female with the same activity level someone on roids can go in and pump up his muscles 5 times a week and look like a monster in under a year, some natty just going in and pumping up his muscles doing isolations will look dyel in a year and come back here looking for advice on heavy compounds

>Lets take bench for example, if you were to bench 100lbs for 5 sets of 12, you will then need to increase the weight at some point (say to 110lbs) once you get 5 sets of 12 again you will increase and so on. You wont be pushing as big numbers as someone doing 3x5 but then they wont be doing near as many reps. The first person would 100% increase muscle mass and probably at a faster rate than the second, but with worse strength gains.

this is wrong

if a natty starts doing 5 sets of 12 it will take him FOREVER to progress, that is way way too much fucking volume for a natty at that light weight

This is how i lift though and it seems to work

ok, then you're wrong.

the mechanism doesn't change, the rate of growth does.

this would be like putting premium fuel in your car, and then rationalize that to mean that now you need to push the brakes to accelerate and vice versa.

again, stop offering advice.

>Lets take bench for example, if you were to bench 100lbs for 5 sets of 12, you will then need to increase the weight at some point (say to 110lbs) once you get 5 sets of 12 again you will increase and so on. You wont be pushing as big numbers as someone doing 3x5 but then they wont be doing near as many reps. The first person would 100% increase muscle mass and probably at a faster rate than the second,

man you have no idea what you are talking about

before you have built muscle doing 60 reps of some exercise at a starting weight of like 100lbs is a trap, do not do this if you ever want to progress or gain muscle

>ok, then you're wrong.
>the mechanism doesn't change, the rate of growth does.

no you are wrong

the mechanism changes due to the fucktard hormones in the body

no it's not like putting fuel in your race car, it's like changing the hormones (chemical signals) in your body to physically build muscle in a different way (such as increasing blood cell count with tren and being able to gain lots of muscle on a cut)

>This is how i lift though and it seems to work

really, you do 60 reps of each exercise? what are your lifts like and how long did it take you to get there natty?

> hormones naturally exist

> inject slightly more

> IT'S LIKE ENTIRELY NEW HORMONES UR BODY IS SO CONFUSED OMG

stop. offering. advice.

>> hormones naturally exist
>> inject slightly more

slightly hugh

stop offering advice, you are clueless as to what you are talking about

>there is natural tren in your body shutting down your testes all the time

ur a genius

To be fair, hormones work in very weird ways. It's not a matter of simply scaling up. When you have a way higher amount of a hormone in your body than the normal, it won't just do the same thing it did before.

>the mechanism doesn't change, the rate of growth does.

the mechanism changes when you are talking hormones, take estrogen and tell me nothing changes

I hate to be this faggot

But here's my body doing what i preach, so even if you dont agree for high rep low weight being better, you can agree it can work ?

Bench - 6x10 110kg
Squat - 130kg 5x10
Ohp - 4x8 70kg
Bent over row - 4x10 115kg
Shrugs - 5x14 125kg
Dont do deads

And all the accessory work everyone does (bicep curls, sode lat raises blah blah blah) but pretty much all high rep range and have always been, been lifting for 2 years.

>Bench - 6x10 110kg

did you get here by starting at 100lbs doing 6x10 and working your way up?

I have seen so many people try to do this and fail it's not funny

BTFO

I started with just the bar, i had the shittest upper body strength ever at the time. I played football (soccer) so had good legs but twig uppper body.

>One of the smartest things i read on here was someone saying you dont need to do high rep sets till you are actually at their mass monster level.
>Before that you are better off getting good at deads, squats, rows, ohp.

this

How can one person be so stupid yet think he's so right?

>200kg for 6 or 7
I call bullshit. You obviously don't understand how advanced a level of strength this is

>high intensity low weight
Wat

Intensity = % of 1RM

Tren isn't test. It's not natural. It's literally a designer hormone designed to make fucking cows put on lean mass. You are a fucking retard. Go reeeeee into your boiled eggs because you can squat 4 pl8s but still look DYEL as fuck you natty fucking plebtard.

"Strength and hypertrophy aren't mutually exclusive. You can get stronger in the higher rep ranges that are proven to make muscles bigger."
Quote from a T-nation article
Why is this so hard to get
Getting stronger in basic compound exercises+enough volume to trigger hypertrophy and develop an balanced physique

SAY IT WITH ME

"Taking hormones dramatically increases muscle growth, it doesn't however alter the method of training required to build muscle be it high reps low weight, high weight low reps, or somewhere in between, its all about consistently progressing in amount of reps, weight, volume, frequency etc. "

you literal fucking retards

>it doesn't however alter the method of training required to build muscle be it high reps low weight, high weight low reps, or somewhere in between, its all about consistently progressing in amount of reps, weight, volume, frequency etc. "

oh yes it does

training on gear is totally different than natty, so is recovering

enjoy being wrong

shit you can just take gear and not train and still gain muscle

This so much. Thank you for posting this my friend.

Steroids only enhance what you do/what you have. They don't magically make X better training method than what it is for naturals.

Roiders make more gains on strength program. Roiders make more gains on hypertrophy program.

>They don't magically make X better training method than what it is for naturals.

yes they do

try doing full body workouts 6 days a week natty vs. on gear and tell me if there is any difference

Roiders can train more often that is "Magically making X (frequency) a better training method than what it is for naturals"

and that is just one example

you are wrong

can you actually fucking read cunt ?

>"Taking hormones dramatically increases muscle growth,

nice cherry picking missing that out there, i'm clearly pointing out the importance of consistency and progression over all.

enjoy being a close minded idiot.

>UH HUR DUR I'LL SIT ON THE COUCH AND GET GAINS FROM PINNING

yeh you will, but not as good as training while pinning, they would be shit and you would be risking health for the sake of laziness.

Roids let you do high reps low volume for great muscle growth though

>"Taking hormones dramatically increases muscle growth, it doesn't however alter the method of training required to build muscle be it high reps low weight, high weight low reps, or somewhere in between, its all about consistently progressing in amount of reps, weight, volume, frequency etc. "

roiders can make better gains shooting gear and not training than nattys can doing proper training

BTFO

So then why has literally not a single person EVER done full body workouts 6 days a week when roiding? That should yield superior gains they recover so fast brah?

Why do all roidmonkeys stick to the same PPLxPPL as naturals? And don't tell me training 6 times a week total, 1-1,5h sessions and 2 times a week certain bodypart is overtraining and impossible to recover from

>>UH HUR DUR I'LL SIT ON THE COUCH AND GET GAINS FROM PINNING
>yeh you will, but not as good as training while pinning,

thank you for admitting you were wrong, now admit that Tren is not natural in your body and is not "adding a little more hormones that are already there"

>So then why has literally not a single person EVER done full body workouts 6 days a week when roiding? That should yield superior gains they recover so fast brah?

people do it all the time, I've done it before and had great gains

you are wrong again

>So then why has literally not a single person EVER done full body workouts 6 days a week when roiding?

you don't know what you are talking about do you?

that wasnt me you gigantic ignorant idiot, this is me and how am i wrong ? i literally stated that you will make more gains on steroids here i bet you dont even fucking lift faggot and are just spouting shit

Who are the people you are talking about? I have never heard of any professional bodybuilder on gear training full body routine 6 times a week.

>Who are the people you are talking about? I have never heard of any professional bodybuilder on gear training full body routine 6 times a week.

you have not heard of much full body 7 days a week was promoted for a long time by many famous bodybuilders, here is a famous book on the subject

you are wrong again

amazon.com/Big-Beyond-Belief-Leo-Costa/dp/1931363765

replying to ignoring >clearly doesnt even lift and is just a shit posting baiting fat cunt

wew lad, what a surprise

So you are arguing against the premise that taking steroids changes the way your body responds to different types of training by posting your body as a proof of having made good progress on a training style that is similar to that of roiders?

>MEMED TO DEATH

Roiders also want a pump constantly, and doing roids will extend the length on that pump. So they do 500000 reps of 30 lb curls.

Dear fucking lord

The point of training is to produce a growth signal
For a natty training heavy in big compound movements is necessary to produce that signal to build muscle

For a roider the steroids already produce a greater signal to build mass - additionally tendons and joints strengthen slower than muscles. Hence doong heavy compounds will lead to injury if you scale upwards with your strength
Hence roiders do pump workouts to increase bloodflow to muscles that are primed to grow
Natties have to cause a mass building signal through inflicting damage to the muscle

Can confirm. Uncle was a PT in LA's gold's during the 90s and had seen firsthand how these guys train

I do this and here are my stats
>Squat 425 x5
>DL 405 x5
>OHP 165 x5
>Bench 245 x5
>Bent Over Row 265 x10
It took me about 6 months coming off nothing but cardio/calisthenics. I hit around 80-100 reps of every exercise at varying weights.

And as if you couldn't achieve 'mass building signal' inflicting damage to muscle doing high volume high reps?

Fuck off. And I'm not talking about using 5lb dumbbells, but moderate weight with good form focusing on squeezing the muscle, doing high reps and volume.

>cable side lateral raise is a meme
Literally nothing wrong with these. They're fantastic for the lateral deltoids and offer even tension throughout the ROM, rather than very little at the bottom and a room at the top as with free weights. I do dumbbell lateral raises one my first push day and cable lateral raises on my second each week. Why not enjoy the best of both worlds?

Yerh you could
But it's less efficient than doing the bigger movements
Do isolations only if you want to - but you'll see worse results as a natty

Nobody is saying you can't do isolations aswell as compounds - you just seem to have started with this idea of not wanting to do compounds and then tried to build an explanation of why you shouldn't

why does everyone repeat this meme about muh compounds when Veeky Forums is full of strong guys who look like dyels? that's the whole point of this debate

Veeky Forums is full of dyel estatters thats why

It's fuckinng genetics and muscle insertions. Some guys can look aesthetic from compounds some will not. There's a huge variation. It's why basing anything off anecdotal evidence from Veeky Forums is the worst idea ever. Also everyone e-stats.

Because most of Veeky Forums lies about their lifts.

Every guy at my gym who is doing compounds at RESPECTABLE WEIGHT look like they lift. The exception being noobs who squat or deadlift with horrendous form. I've yet to see a DYEL benching 2plate.

height?
mirin

If you spent as much time training as you do overanalyzing useless shit, you would be fooking huge

People who do things "the right way" after hours of research tend to be low test nerds with shit genetics. People who just walk into the gym and do whatever they want tend to have Chad or BBC genetics and are brimming with testosterone.

>dorian yates and ronnie coleman did not train heavy
I guess that's why dorian ripped his biceps and triceps tendon and had to quit. Guess that's also the reason ronnie coleman is completely wrecked.
Those two definetly did train heavy and not only for the cameras. But they are perfect examples why you should not do that. Look at Cutler, Greene and Heath. They train light and are pretty much injury free.
When you look at how much better Coleman and Yates were compared to the other competitors at their time training heavy actually might build the most muscle. You will have to pay the price though.
This is just my thoughts, combining the little I know into something that makes sense for me. I have never roided and I might be talking complete shit.

The pros are bad role models. They drink a dozen cans of soda a day. And are literally mutants.

Men's physique competitors are better comparisons.

Except it literally fucking does you flaming faggot. Do your research

Literally every big guy that you see started out doing big heavy compound movements. A novice should not training like an advanced lifter.

Guys the only thing you really need to grow is progressive overload. The easiest way to do that differs depending on your training level. A novice can just do heavy low rep compounds and grow but as you approach your limit you need to do different shit such as incorporating periodization and using different volumes and all that shit. Just because you see a big guy train a certain way doesn't mean you should train exactly like him because that's probably not how he got to that point.

I REFUSE to believe that this is true, they might be able to get away with shitty training and still growing, but there is NO FUCKING WAY, no matter WHAT hormones you are on, you can just eat "candies and cakes" and still come on stage at

The one thing he said in the image post is "unless you are prepping for a contest"

cruize on test and lift for a lots of reps with a good weight, thats the formula for optimal growth and health, if you like lifting heavy and growing, take some tren and you'll be strong as fuck, lean and big
>It is FOOLISH to think these guys are eating garbage food in prep for these contests
no its not, they have drugs to burn out all the calories they eat

Every now and then a beast appears on the barbells but most of the time they lurk around the db or cables. Most of the roid monkeys go to other gyms though. Counting peeps reps i never see any one going less than 8. Got a good oly platform and rack but its the most availible thing to use.

this whole strength meme is a conspiracy to keep dyels dyel and make more money off protein powder and all that shit. why do you think those people working 3-4 hours a day in heavy ass physical jobs actually have more muscle than losers doing SS/SL?

its volume and injections uber alles

But will roids make my peener bigger

it will give the illusion of a bigger dick as it will shrink your balls.

If high intensity low volume meme programs build the most mass, why did switching to sheiko (avg. Intensity 70%~) make me gain much more mass in 6 months than i gained in the previous 24 months lifting?

>Normal person has less than 1 microgram of test in their body
>Inject 500 MILLIGRAMS
>Hardly any change at all
Obviously bait

Ever notice how 90% of the faggots who only do shitty isolation only look like complete shit? They might be big but they all have shit proportions.

when I first started lifting i was really overthinking everything and by reading research and science stuff I came to the conclusion that we dont really know anything about muscle building for sure and people respond different to routines and exercises. you have to try everything and see what works for you

Probably because you were doing a novice program for 2 years ya fuckin idiot

SL/SS then 531. So no.

Did your lifts go up every month? Just got onto 5/3/1

my question is can I just fucking eat at maintenance and lift? like scooby says to gain muscle and burn fat? I dont care if its slower, I dont have the patience to bulk and cut and I am also on TRT

Daily reminder that hypertrophy is highly correlated with volume, and the best way to accrue that is moderately heavy sets.

Yes. But i did 5/3/1 wrong. If you do it correctly, no problems. Did BBB.

This
You'll read one hundred texts and you'll get several different views. You need to actively look for what works for you and what incentivates you. Fitness is never one size fits all.

I've seen what you mean, but if you catch them on the right day you'll see the bench/dl at least.