Do you think the war would've a different outcome if Paulus opposed Hitlers orders and withdrew from Stalingrad before...

Do you think the war would've a different outcome if Paulus opposed Hitlers orders and withdrew from Stalingrad before they got surrounded ?

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Paulus probably gets court-martialled and hanged. Maybe 6th Army's survival buys Germany a few extra months of life.

Yes, if Paulus had disobeyed Hitler and raised the Confederate battle flag, he could have put down the Nazis and provided a safe country farm for pregnant Ann Frank to raise her brood.

when does he withdraw, by the time they realised they were in danger it was already too late

when does he withdraw, by the time they realised they were in danger it was already too late, they ingnored and downplayed reports of the romanian flanks being attacked heavily as the romanians being pussies and cucks

No. Don't be stupid. Say he does it, and can even withdraw cleanly. He pulls back, and the 6th army is mostly saved and intact. The Germans have still failed to secure Stalingrad, and without it, the Caucasus operation cannot possibly succeed. Germany is still being outbuilt by the USSR alone, nevermind Great Britain and the U.S. Don't forget, the Wehrmacht achieved its greatest paper strength in early 1944, long after the loss of the 67th army. It's just that the Allies built up even faster than Germany did. This would still occur, whatever happens to the 6th Army.

The outcome of the war was certain after December 12th 1941.

It was clear from the beginning they would get surrounded
The corridor was guarded by romanian troops who would defect or flee at the first sight of the enemy

>LW does not suffer heavy losses of transport aircraft
>Extra 22 divisions to plug holes
>Stalin agrees to negotiated settlement in 43, germany still holds onto ukraine and crimea

that explains why on receiving reports of the romanians coming under heavy attack it was over 24 hours before they did anything about it and realised how serious it was. My source is antony beevors stalingrad.

Hitler should've focused more on resources instead of meme targets like stalingrad and moscow

t. illiterate

Stalingrad and Moscow were important strategic and logistical targets fucking moron

oops

>population centers and rail hubs are meme targets

6th army* not 67th.

Why would Stalin agree to a negotiated settlement when he

>Is still winning, just less than he was in the historical timeline
>Is dealing with a person who broke his word once before and launched, from his perspective, a massive invasion out of the blue.

Stalingrad was targeted precisely to help secure Caucasus oil, you idiot.

Why are foreign invaders always so retarded? The geographic nature of Russia means you simply cannot take out the country by capturing a single city. This isn't a Berlin or Paris type situation.
Say the Germans capture Moscow. Then what? What exactly does that accomplish? The Soviets would just move their government east of the Urals where a lot of the industry already was.

archive.org/stream/MastnystalinAndProspectsOfSeparatePeaceInWorld/Mastny--StalinAndProspectsOfSeparatePeaceInWorldWarIi#page/n0/mode/2up

British had the same problem in the American Revolution. They captured Philadelphia thinking it would cause the Continental Congress to collapse and Congress simply moved to another city.

Stalin was "talking" to sweden about a proposed truce in 43, if the german army was still on the Don river in strength, and had not lost at Kursk (which wouldnt have happened in this alternative timeline) he may have well negotiated a truce.

Obviously you would have to be on your guard regarding his trustworthiness.

>Stalingrad was strategically important
LOl it wasn't, it wasn't even included to take the city in the original orders of operation blau
it was a fucking wasteland the only thing that mattered was the name of the city for hitler

>name some bumfuck nowhere city after Stalin
>Germans can't help their terminal autism and throw everything at it to conquer it

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Even in the 'conciliatory' post-stalingrad "peace offers", it's envisioning a removal of the Nazi regime and the dealing wiht a military run junta in Berlin. Regime change is a pretty damn huge concession, user, and is rarely acquired without complete obliteration of the enemy. Also, the fact that all the sources in the article are friend of a friend and this neutral guy in Sweden once mentioned something to the effect is not doing much for its credibility.

Furthermore, the downplaying of British and American efforts, while continually treated as such in the article, do not point to willingness to make a separate peace, merely having a separate base and a separate set of goals from the Western Allies. De Gaulle did the same thing as leader of Free France and nobody is suggesting he was going to make a separate peace on the basis of his biting the hand that fed him.

Statements like "The sharp curtailment of offensive operations by the Red Army on March 15th 1943" seem to imply that the Red Army and the Central Front were one and the same, and ignoring offensives by other formations, like the Leningrad, Volkholov, and Northwestern Front.

I realize this is only my personal opinion, but the article is very unpersuasive.

And Sedan wasn't part of the original Fall Gelb either. Are you saying it wasn't strategically important? Fun fact. Plans get revised. Usually they're revised to fix problems in the older plans.