Everyone agrees that your body stores fat for times when food is scarce

Fasting has been lost in our culture in the last 100 years. Mainly because you can’t make money telling people not to eat and you can’t sell pills to healthy people, but I digress. Fasting is an ancient practice found in practically all religions. It makes evolutionary sense as well. If you haven’t eaten in a while you don’t want your body to shut down, you want it to rev up so you can get out there and find some food.

Oh, and worried that you’ll lose muscle mass on a fast? Your body always goes for the fat stores first, that’s what it’s there for. Why chop up the sofa if you have firewood available. In fact, in males, your Human Growth Hormone (HGH) increases up to 2000% while fasting. Source:
youtube.com/watch?v=W1fiGJxkFWU

If you think you're body will go for protein stores before it goes for fat stores then you are retarded.

>Source
>YouTube link

Why does Veeky Forums pseudo intellect shitpost the worst of any other board?

10/10 counter argument, 10/10 source, 20/10

Yeah because if I linked to a scientific study everyone here would jump to go read 10 pages of latin and greek mumbo jumbo.

Its more palatable to just link Youtube videos.

See

You stupid code monkey

You won't lose your muscle. The reason protein is found in the urine is because your body is undergoing autophogy. This is a process only activated during fasting which cleans house. It eats up all the dead, old cells so it can replace them with new ones as soon as you eat again.'

This is essential for keeping a healthy, disease free, and younger looking body.

>Mainly because you can’t make money telling people not to eat and you can’t sell pills to healthy people, but I digress.
Yeah you can, people do it all the time. The whole vitamin industry is built on exactly the latter, with a lot of dubious overdiagnosing practices in psychiatry on top of it.
As for the former, it's not real fasting but "juice fasts" are totally a craze. Not to mention religious fasting, causes like 40 hour famine, stupid chicks trying to lose weight without long term commitment, the fucking intermittent fasting craze. People fast literally all the fucking time.

The big money is in the pharmacuetical and and food industries, though. When you don't incorporate a fasting period in your diet than your insulin levels will perpetually rise and so too will your insulin resistance.

The food industry loves this because you eat and eat and eat and eat. The pharmaceutical companies love this because you have pain, high blood sugar, bad cholesterol problems etc etc.

Its called break-FAST for a reason people.

That seems like sych a design flaw. The fasting explination makes far more sense to me.

the human body isn't as stupid as you are

You sound like a nut job.
>wake up sheeple!

Nah its just a bi-product of capitalism and a sad truth :/

That's right, he does. Unfortunately he's completely correct.

Not if you're using it. It might take more energy to keep, but it's also vital to being able to hunt and gather more food, to fight off enemies, like that strange beast that keeps trying to crush you in intervals of 5 every other day, like a cat toying with its prey.

Simply axing muscle is just a recipe for fatal starvation. Sure, by sacrificing muscle you'll keep all that juicy fat to live off, but without muscle to access more food it's just a needlessly prolonged death.

if your HGH would jump up to 2000% of your baseline it'd prolly be close to injecting 10-20iu of growth hormone

that'd be high enough difference that you'd start seeing your hands and feet grow after a few years of doing weekly fasts so im calling bs

link the study and not some jew spouting shit in a youtube vid

Calories in calories out is good and proven to work, but if you listen to all this keto, fasting shit, it actually makes a lot of sense. Its more about loosing fat as opposed to weight, im going on a fast for a couple days tomorrow so ill start a thread then and post results.

Crosslinked for /fat/fucks

Articles on IF
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3680567/

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25546413

IF Studys
clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT02132091

Ongoing
clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02770313

>Calories in calories out is good and proven to work
eat junk food with lots of added sugar, same calories
go ahead

Did you read everything i said?

fuck off

no I stopped there

Wewlad.exe calm down, i just said i believe there is alot of truth to fasting and im going to experience it first hand for myself and post results. Dont be a politician you pathetic cunt, just trying to have a discussion for the good of all the readers here.

I think the takeaway from this thread is count your calories AND your macros. Eat well and lift hard, and boom you'll have the physique you want.

After extended period of time without eating, body will release glucagon, the hormone opposite to insulin, causing general catabolism. By catabolism I mean breakdown of complex molecules into simpler ones. Think protein => aminoacids, fatty acids => Acetyl CoA, glycogen => glucose. This will affect everything from muscle mass to adipose tissue

The first energy store to go is glycogen, mostly stored in the liver but also cached in muscle. Glucose is important for the brain but also red blood cells, which are incapable of metabolizing fat since they lack nucleus

Fat will be broken down and used by many tissues, but they generally don't penetrate the blood-brain barrier

Aminoacids are perfectly good sources of energy and they will be used as such

After a while ketone bodies will be synthesized in the liver so that tissues such as the brain can have energy. The brain also synthesizes its own ketone bodies in normal conditions since the blood-brain barrier blocks free fatty acids

I'm not even shilling IF but it has worked wonders for me. I am having MUCH better workouts fasted in the morning. Feels amazing breh. And i know its working when im feeling that hunger before bed.. brehh IF is the shit

Is 3 days a good start for someone who's never fasted? Having quit alcohol and smoking cold turkey I'm pretty confident in my willpower. Does one have to alter their training while fasting?

the thing is, 48-72 hours is usually the point where fasting starts to get a lot easier. therefore it makes more sense to either do 24 hours, or longer fasts (5+ days).

Three days without food? How many of you guys go days without food? I'm doing 16/8 and it seems fine. Anything more than that sounds extreme and necessary.

I haven't gone a day without food in my life, but I've never been fat so I haven't had to restrict cals ever. Having never fasted though I'm at least curios to try it before I make any judgement.

16 hours is barely a fast. 20 hours is the minimium in my opinion to talk about fasting. More preferably.

It doesn´t even fucking matter if you hit your calories. there certainly are insulin based benefits for eating one huge meal

longer fasts = faster fat loss

i'm on hour 48, which is the longest i've gone so far

>faster everything loss

ftfy

reread the op, you smeghead

Black coffee is allowed during a fast, correct?

if you're doing it for autophagy, then stick to water and salt. otherwise, yes.

>Source
>mfw Dr Jones

>like that strange beast that keeps trying to crush you in intervals of 5 every other day, like a cat toying with its prey.
gave me a heartly chuckle

Why don't you just link to a porn videos then? Much more palatable and equally conclusive.

Why do you say this. Everything I've read suggests that black coffee either does not hinder autophagy at all or might even enhance it.

I don't have one, and you probably shouldn't listen to him. If you could help find an article I would appreciate it. I know that HGH is released during a fast but how much is the question. I have a feeling the HGH released is more to rebuild the protein cells that are autophagocytized during atophagy and less about building more mass.

That's actually a good one.

I'd also like to know more about this because I've been drinking salt water and black coffee on my fasts. I'll do some digging and check back.

on the latest episode of the Fasting Talk podcast, they said that there's a chance that it could hinder autophagy and that, until more research is done, it's better to avoid it (IF autophagy is your main reason for fasting)

>design flaw
body burns muscle so there is less body to maintain, therefore less food is needed
seems prrfectly reasonable to me

I mean autophagy is pretty much a miracle function. The doctor within. If they say they don't know than I won't risk it 'til they do. I want those autophagy gains.

>fast-fags say fat will be depleted instead of muscle
>when I tried it, I lost huge quantities of muscle. Struggled to even do 3 chin ups.

Explain this.

>be caveman
>hunting, can't find any food
>body goes into starvation mode
>shuts down brain, shuts down energy to muscles
>die instantly

The opposite happens. In fact your brain power goes up and so too does your metabolism. Why? So you can get your ass out there and find some fucking food.

You probably didn't lose muscle, but your energy levels were low and your recovery was sub-par.

I personally don't believe lifting on an empty stomach is a good idea.

It's not my main reason and a strong black coffee is one of the finest pleasures in life first thing in the morning so I will risk it.

If it turns out that they show it hinder autophagy I'll go without.

I don't see why though given that it's the caloric deprivation of the fast that kicks up autophagy. Why would consuming a drink with no calories in it stop that in any significant way?
Then again I have no understanding beyond what I read so I don't know shit.

ACSHULLY a cup of black coffee contains ~2 calories on average

I searched autophagy and what I found made no sense. Can someone break it down a little bit? This thread seems to emphasize it in the context of fasting.

it's your body getting rid of shitty old cells and protein. it's been suggested that it can slow down aging and prevent alzheimer's

Sounds like nothing but benefits. How come more effort isn't put into getting info like this out instead of fit tea and wraps and all that bullshit.

I honestly don't understand what you're trying ask/where you're confused.
your body takes away from muscle when your deficit it too high. your body requires a min. amount of body fat to function- so its not going to just take all of your deficit from fat, thats not efficient for how the body is meant to function. so when your deficit is too big, your body only takes so much from fat and then starts taking away from muscle, internal organs, etc.

You're confusing fasting with a low calorie diet.

Because there's very little money to be made telling people to only eat within a 6 hour window every day.

How can you sell anything with that? You can't even sell some meme plan because it literally is as simple as 'don't consume calories except within your 6 hour window'.

72 hrs supposedly cranks up white blood cell generation. Which makes sense. If you're not eating your body would go into self defense mode

It's literally the opposite, your body burns excess fat first and only starts using protein in muscles when that's gone.

>50 hours of fasting
>breath still doesn't smell like acetone

what did my body mean by this?

lol

3 meals a day has always been a meme. telling people just to eat when they're hungry wouldn't sell a lot of corn flakes

Okay, so can someone link actual study as to what happens during a fast?

>hurr you lose fat
>hurr no you lose muscle first

which fucking one is it?

>fast for 20 hours on workout days(only eat right before and after workout)
>eat little to nothing on rest days
>make the post workout meal fucking huge to the point where youd be at a calorie surplus

What would that do to a man?

>fast
>for 20 hours
>fast
Yeah, I'm fasting like 3 hours between each meal, too. Fasting stronk!

lmao then why have I only gained 4 pounds in the last 4 months eating 1k calories over maintenance while making large strength gains and gaining no visble fat?? Only 4 months ago I started fasting. The difference is that I fast an hour after a workout, then eat a considerable amount. I also dont eat before noon. Coincidence??

>I fast an hour

If you're fat you're gonna lose fat. The closer to get to a low bf%, the harder it will be to lose just fat.

This is why people hop on gear to get shredded, because getting to low bf% while retaining large amounts of muscle isn't as easy natty.

>doesnt acknowledge that including sleep I fast at least 12 hours every day from 10pm-12am until noon the next day

...

The point about fasting is to reduce insulin, as insulin causes fat gain and blocks the metabolism of fats.

I'm skinnyfat. 130 lbs, 5'9. I have a small belly, that's pretty much it. Do I do GOMAD and lift or do I starve myself, get rid of the fat stomach and then do GOMAD and lift?

Just GOMAD. Don't bother to lift your dont need to while you GOMAD.

Nah man, I'll definitely lift. I don't want to be a fat cunt.

Well, if that's the way you want it, i would suggest SS along with GOMAD.

yeah, I was planning on it. I just want to cease being a skelleton and acquire strength, something I have not had, ever.

Good luck bro

thanks m8

stop talking.

the body burns muscle that is deemed unnecessary. If you cut and only do cardio, you will lose tons of muscle. A significant stimulus is required to keep muscle while cutting.

Body only really uses muscle for energy when it's sedentary.

if you lose all your muscle first then you can't hunt for food.

i think this only applies when you are completely bedridden and barely eating

How much fat and how much muscle do you get from GOMAD? Is it all just fat? Because that would fucking suck.

>the body is an intelligent brain and not a dynamic system

Neck yourself idiot

(You)

>all
No, not all, some will be lost.

>Hunting means running large distances mostly

Ever seen a profesionnal marathon runner? You don't need much muscle to be an efficient runner.

Ironically, marathon runners are the best at using fat for energy despite eating almost no fat.

Everyone who thinks they already know the truth, google the Two Compartment Problem and fucking learn something.

give me the cliffs notes, can't be arsed researching at work

>Two Compartment Problem
It's interesting to read these studies that say 99% of the time CICO fails because it succeeds 100% of the time for me whenever I need to cut.

I get the feeling CICO works for people who are healthy but fails once you pass a certain threshold of consistent BF%/insulin resistance.

t...thats not fasting thats basic living