Fasting Support thread

Shoo Shoo. You're being too obvious.

Drink more water

Fasted for just 24 hours. Broke through my weight loss plateau.

I think I'll start fasting on deload weeks only, and only for 24-72 hours. Seems like it can help me accomplish my goals nicely. Can't imagine fasting during my normal workout weeks though.

I am on vyvanse so I have a suppressed appetite, so I am not really 'fasting' so much as I am just forgetting to eat/have no desire to eat.

Any tips on how to maintain my health when not eating?

Kind of interesting now that you mention it, that you naturally have less or no appetite when you're sick

Awesome man, glad you're having a good experience.

>Can't imagine fasting during my normal workout weeks though.
Yeah it's tough. You only need to do minimal exercise during fasting, though. This is more about staying in cardiovascular shape and minimizing muscle loss and bone density loss.

The beautiful thing is you don't have to worry too much about muscle loss because of the pulsatile HGH releases each morning. I personally don't feel any weaker. I'm actually able to do more pullups than I ever could. Probably because I'm losing weight so its a lighter load. But that shows I'm definitely not losing any strength. Feel great.

correlation =/= causation

You are going to lose weight fasting and then gain it back because you don't know how to eat properly because you never learned how.

This is the same reason people yo-yo, because they do a strict crash diet without learning how to actually eat and then gain it back when they hit their goal weights.

kys and your pseudoscience

This is a complicated post. Are you trying to lose weight? What is your BMI? What are you eating and when throughout the day?

I am trying to lose weight and was properly dieting before the meds. Not sure my BMI. I randomly eat some soy protein when I think to, otherwise very small portions of vegetables + chicken. I take vitamin supplements and I have thus far not felt any negative affects of my diet, but I just worry.

intermittent fasting is legit, but these 24+ hour water fasts are retarded if you lift heavy

no fucking way any of you who do extended fasts actually lift weights

MAYBE it's decent for obese people who don't lift as a discipline technique, but that's about it

enjoy your low test because of the lack of fats in your system

enjoy your delayed muscle repair because of the no proteins

enjoy no energy and perma lethargy because of the lack of carbs

probably the dumbest Veeky Forums meme of 2017 and you guys are falling for it

If I was retarded I would think the same thing.

People don't yo-yo on a fast. You will gain about 10lbs back at the end, maybe less depending on how long you fasted. This is the body asking for more nutrients to repair and replace the cells it cleaned out.

You don't yo-yo on a fast. Fasting balances the digestive hormones, most importantly insulin. You won't crave all the junk food anymore. It is a "cold-turkey" approach, you will feel like shit the first couple days, but you will re-balance and find yourself perfectly fine eating sat. fats, proteins and whole grains.

>kys and your pseudoscience

That's not very nice, user. Lets try to keep our debate high-spirited. I'm here to learn and help and I appreciate a well constructed debate. Nevertheless, I wish you the best.

I'm not a doctor, and really not specialized in your particular situation. I don't really feel comfortable giving you advice, forgive me.

I will say, however, that you should drink a lot of water and make sure you are getting enough salt. Get some sunlight for the vitamin D as well, it will make you feel much better :)

We want to make sure that you are getting into your fat storage, and not mesing up your metabolism. To do this you want to make sure your meals are withing 6-8 hours of eachother. That way you can be in a feeding state for a while and then switch to fat burning mode to get the rest of your daily caloric expenditure. This includes all of your meals and any calories that you are consuming elsewhere i.e. a glass of milk. All of those calories need to be in that 6-10hr window.

Yeah these extended fasts are for people who can afford to lose AT LEAST 5 - 10 lbs. Anyone who is lean and does an extended fast should just use common sense here. Weight lifters are not the only lurkers on this board.

>People don't yo-yo on a fast
>You don't yo-yo on a fast
repeating it twice doesn't make it true.

You need to do it three times and spit over your left shoulder, or you'll yo-yo.

This painting actually reveals a lot about who you are and where you are coming from. Thanks for the hint :^)

Whoops
>mfw when I yo-yo'd my yo-yo rebuttle.

youtube.com/watch?v=WVCvloBMe0U

>being this butthurt I criticized your week long 1pl8 squat lifting water fasting cult for fatties

it's a fucking wallpaper I found from /wg/ that I thought looked cool cause it reminded me of dark souls
get over yourself m8

Chill, dude.

/v/ oldfag, Veeky Forums newfag here. Why fast? I'm losing weight by eating only when my stomach growls. I'm not even eating fruit or vegetables. No sweets, obviously. Fasting seems much more difficult than making the choice to avoid eating for comfort.

Reminder that the underlying factor of obesity is not calories, its insulin, or rather insulin resistance.

Insulin and insulin resistance are the enemy in terms of obesity, not caloric intake. It’s about eating foods that keep your insulin low. It’s also about eating once or twice in a 6 to 10 hour window and then fasting until you eat the next day at break-FAST. This gives the body enough time to clean out the glycogen stores and get to the fat you want to lose.

Fasting has been lost in our culture in the last 100 years. Mainly because you can’t make money telling people not to eat and you can’t sell pills to healthy people, but I digress. Fasting is an ancient practice found in practically all religions. It makes evolutionary sense as well. If you haven’t eaten in a while you don’t want your body to shut down, you want it to rev up so you can get out there and find some food.

The Nobel Prize winner of 2016, Yoshinori Ohsumi, also found an amazing body function called Autophagy. It’s basically a house cleaning mechanism activated during fasting that has profound effects such as preventing cancer, anti-aging, and metabolizing loose skin, just to name a few.

Oh, and worried that you’ll lose muscle mass on a fast? Your body always goes for the fat stores first, that’s what it’s there for. Why chop up the sofa if you have firewood available. In fact, in males, your Human Growth Hormone (HGH) increases up to 1250% while fasting. Source:
intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-growth-hormone-physiology-part-3/

Here’s Dr. Fungs talk where CICO’s misconceptions are highlighted. Highly recommended.
youtube.com/watch?v=tIuj-oMN-Fk

>Who is extended fasting for?
People who want to lose weight and for preventative care. Usually people with a BMI >20 to be safe. I'm around 19 BMI and I am currently on an extended fast, but we want to be safe.

>What is extended fasting?
Extended fasting comes in many shapes and sizes. The variant I will cover mostly is 0 caloric intake. In this variant you are allowed water, salt, black coffee.

FAQS
>will fasting cause muscle loss?
intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-muscle-mass-fasting-part-14/

>What is autophagy?
Autophagy is activated after 12 to 24 hours after a fast begins. It is the process of the body cleaning out old damaged or dead cells and rebuilding them. It is a renovating function.

>People who should not fast, this link has a great list of people who should not fast.
allaboutfasting.com/who-can-fast.html

>Is HGH really released during a fast? why?
At about 24 hours into the fast your HGH will spike. This is mostly for rebuilding the proteins that your body has torn down. It is important for maintaining muscle mass that you do light exercise. All that is explained in the link above.
youtube.com/watch?v=W1fiGJxkFWU

>At about 24 hours into the fast your HGH will spike. This is mostly for rebuilding the proteins that your body has torn down.

I forgot to rewrite this. HGH does not rebuild the proteins that you have "torn down". But it does help maintain muscle mass and bone density during a fast.

Correct. That's because the "growth" element of HGH comes from its triggering of IGF-1 release. When you fast, you suppress IGF-1. As a result, HGH functions in regeneration + fat burn mode rather than growth mode.

When you break a fast, the IGF-1 comes back in full force. Be sure to take advantage of this by consuming protein.

Are you the guy that schooled me in the last thread? I appreciate it if so.

Is alternate day fasting better than regular IF? I mean, just sounds logic that all the benefits would be greater after a longer yet still safe fasting period, right?

If I eat around twice my calories needed during my lifting days (3xweek fullbody) and then fast 3 of my 4 rest days, would my gains be compromised?

Just finished reading this: authoritynutrition.com/alternate-day-fasting-guide/
But I'm still not convinced of giving it a try, to be honest, my main goal is to gain as much strength as possible, so I don't really feel the need to try it, it's mostly curiosity.

Any user has given it a try?

>Any user has given it a try?
I haven't but this sounds a lot like the Eat Stop Eat routine. You might want to look into it.

Your gains won't be compromised on a fast that short, I can gaurantee that. As long as you have 3-5lbs at least of fat storage, keep that in mind.
intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-muscle-mass-fasting-part-14/

You can also exercise on those fasting days to help minimize muscle and bone density loss and stay in shape.
intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-exercise-fasting-23/

You might want to look into the warrior diet, it is a variation of IF I think you would be interested in.

Basically, when you fast, at about 20-24 hours your HGH will spike, usually in the morning. The idea is to fast until your HGH spikes and then do a kick ass workout and 1 HUGE meal right after that has all your daily calories. You fast again until that 24ish hour mark, HGH is spiking, do a killer workout and eat. I'm going to try it as soon as I'm lean and change my priority to gaining mass.

Thanks for all the info m80, I have more than enough fat storage, I'm around 15% bf, so yeah.

About exercising, I was thinking some low intensity stuff, something like walking, yoga, or anything similar.

And that Warrior Diet thing has a cringy name lel, but sounds interesting. Makes just sense that if fasting really spikes your HGH, it would be something useful to try while gaining strength or losing fat. Yet I'm thinking that I wouldn't have any problem having 3k calories in a single big meal, maybe it's a bit harder to fit in all the fiber, veggies and other low-cal high-volume healthy stuff too. Probably just a matter of trying and getting used to I guess.

So yeah, something i'm totally gonna give a try!

Are 24 hour fasts worth while?
I did 2 24 hours this weekend. I ate only at 9pm. I didnt bing, i tried to eat more protein and fats rather than carbs.

That sounds really interesting, yeah. Very novel idea. That would be a fucking huge meal, I don't really know how that works for people.

Let me know how it goes, I make these threads often, I try to keep a fasting support thread up every day. I'm looking for work and doing random odd jobs in the meantime so I'm pretty much monitoring all the time.

5-8 lbs to go until I'm fucking lean, down from 205lbs last year. Can't. Fucking. Wait. to post my before and afters.

>We have lost the art of fasting in the western world in the last 50 years. In that time we have never been sicker.

Except life expectancy has only gone in one direction.

Also, i'm still 'bulking'. I just want to stop getting fat while i recover. I acutally felt VERY energic all day. Usually after lunch i feel sleepy as fuck for 3-4 hours. I plan to fast on every non lifting day for 24 hours and eat all my protein at night before sleep.

Help me, Veeky Forumsizens.

Yeah we live 75 years instead of 600 years
>and Jesus kek'd.

I'm stepping out for a bit to do some lifting.

bbc.com/news/magazine-28191865

Alright I'll stay for a bit to help you, dude. What is your Height, Weight, Estimated BMI? What are your goals? What is your diet; what do you eat and when do you eat throughout the day.

I'm 74kg, ok 73 now after 2 days fasting.
175cm tall 5'9 i guess
Estimated bmi is 23.8
My goals are to gain strength and limit the fat i get while bulking. I eat homemade stuff, i dunno rice and home made bread with meat, eggs, dairy products and fish.

I did the fast and did some cardio to fastly deplete glycogen and go into fat burning mode. My logic was that if there's no glycogen to burn energy has to come from somewhere. I guess not muscle because it's retarded to think that only 24 hours without food and you waste away the most valuable tissue.
I punched a boxing bag for hour today and went for a walk for about an hour. If HGH peaks after 24 hours, that must mean it's peaking now and if i eat, my body will have fuel to build stuff.
What am i doing wrong? I don't want to fast for 48 hours while bulking.

I'm also at an estimated 18%bf, maybe 20.
My lifts are
Bench 70kg
Deadlift 150kg
Ohp barely 60kg
Chinups with 15kg weight x 5
Dunno if it's relevant...

Well I would figure you want to lose a bit of weight without losing any muscle tissue, especially since summer is comming up.

The foods you eat are GREAT! Just make sure you stay away from artificial sweeteners, but I'm sure you know this.

What I would suggest to you is an intermittant fast of this variation. Eat 2 or 3 meals in an 8 hour window preferable high in sat. fats and protein. Stay away from refined carbs, you can have whole grains but they're really not essential. Don't eat again after your last meal until you eat again the next day. This is a 8:16 format, you could even try a 6:18 format if you are up for it, this would allow for more fat burning.

Try to stay away from ALL calories in your fasted state, things like a glass of milk or a snack will stop your fast dead in its tracks for up to 6 hours.

During this time you can lift and exercise as much as your body will let you. Stay hydrated. Don't expect to gain muscle mass but you sure as shit won't lose any on this regiment.

>"Everyone has a doctor in him; we just have to help him in his work. The natural healing force within each one of us is the greatest force in getting well. ...to eat when you are sick, is to feed your sickness."
>-Hippocrates, one of the three fathers of Western medicine
i like how you quote this to prove your point when it actually disproves it

So can't i do fasting while on a bulk to get some fat off and grow some muscle when i'm done losing weight?

Also your really don't need to count calories, proteins and fats are highly satiating. That is they make you full very quickly. Just eat a little less or a lot less depending on how comfortable and how zealous you are on losing weight.

I'll be back in 15-30min.

That is not my specially I'm sorry. I can't help you there, I'm only versed in methods that are geared for losing weight and maintaining muscle mass, as that is what I'm after. Once I get lean here in the next week or so I will be researching how to IF and gain mass. The advice I gave you is geared for losing weight maintaining muscle mass.

However the Warrior Diet mentioned and Stop Eat Stop are definitely more geared for you:

Can someone post real before and after pictures of people fasting? And the time it took to lose x weight?

>inb4 pictures of Ausschwitz.

So this weird thing is happening.

I fasted for 48 hours and broke it yesterday. Today I'm fasting again. I'm starting a cycle of fast one day, eat the next. So for example if my cutting calories are 2000 a day, I eat 4000 every other day. I feel fine today, doing a 24 hour fast is so much easier after having done a 48 hour one. And it's easier for me to not eat, then eat a lot, rather than eat little every day.

Do you count the 24 hours since the last meal?
Or since you wake up from the next day?
I need to know what counts as 24 hours.

From the last time you ate to the next time you eat again. So 24 hours of not eating.

Yup! I'm educating myself as well and sharing my findings as I go along.

so i did 2 of those this weekend. I ate only at 9 pm. A pretty solid meal, full of proteins and fats. My first night was the best sleep i had in a while. I felt very energetic during the day. The only reason i didnt go for a 48h fast is because i'm still bulking.

Can you cite some study or article?
I really want to educate myself but i can't take someone's word for it just because.
I'm a medstudent and studied endocrynology, so gimme the good stuff.
>inb4 didnt school teach you?
School taught me about diseases, not how to manipulate your endocrine system just so you can sculp yourself.

Person you replied to here. I count it as a full day from the morning to the next morning. So it ends up being more like 30 - 36 hours depending on when I stop eating.

I don't count the hours. Just focus on the day.

Mon - Eat
Tue - Fast
Wed - Eat

etc

>In a non-fasted state, GH increases IGF-1.

Studies are not really necessary for this one, since it's a textbook fact that these two work together on the same pathway (called the GH/IGF-1 axis) to stimulate growth (whether during puberty or post-workout). You can take a look at the Wikipedia article on GH/IGF-1 or the corresponding endocrine section of a bio textbook like Campbell. That being said, I'll link to some studies that can provide some quantitative data.

Intranasal Human Growth Hormone (hGH) Induces IGF-1 Levels Comparable With Subcutaneous Injection With Lower Systemic Exposure to hGH in Healthy Volunteers.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26425883
The relative roles of growth hormone and IGF-1 in controlling insulin sensitivity.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300772/
This is a study about insulin sensitivity rather than the relationship between IGF-1 and HGH per se, but the textbook facts on how they operate are re-stated within the study.

>In a fasted state, IGF-1 is suppressed to alter the mechanism of GH.

This is also textbook, since it's a fundamental part of how GH works.

IGF-1, the Cross Road of the Nutritional, Inflammatory and Hormonal Pathways to Frailty
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3820068/

Long-term effects of calorie or protein restriction on serum IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 concentration in humans
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2673798/

Not a study, but interesting article with a USC professor.
michelsonmedical.org/2014/12/26/igf-1-fasting-discussion-valter-longo/
"if you fast mice and inject IGF-1 you reverse a lot of the protective effects of fasting"
"(A) In both mice and humans, fasting for 2 or 5 days, respectively, causes an over 50% decrease in IGF-I, a 30% or more decrease in glucose, and a 5–10-fold increase in the IGF-1 binding protein and inhibitor IGFBP1 (Cahill, 2006; Lee et al., 2012; Raffaghello et al., 2008; Thissen et al., 1994a, 1994b)."

It's strange to me that some have called Dr. Fung a quack in this thread when much of what he's preaching is simply textbook endocrine knowledge.

The suggestion that "CICO doesn't work" is a bit sensational, I agree. But that is merely to attract attention. In reality, the underlying mechanisms behind calorie restriction and fasting are exactly the same.

The only thing that runs counter to Veeky Forums's logic is the idea that fasting preserves more muscle than slow, deficit-based cutting. This strikes a nerve in a community that is pathologically obsessed with not losing muscle. However, with an understanding of biology, there are two points you can take away:

1. Fasting actually does converse muscle, due to textbook hormonal responses (primarily via HGH) for human survival. Protein is only taken from muscle at a very low rate in order to power the brain.

2. One reason that the idea of fasting preserving muscle seems so sensational is the widespread belief that heavy cuts cause heavy muscle loss, and that even slow cuts create a challenge when it comes to maintaining muscle. These ideas are severely exaggerated, especially on Veeky Forums. It's surprisingly hard to lose a lot of muscle on a cut, even if you try. This belief (paranoia) is detrimental to the gains of so many Veeky Forumsizens as it results in permabulking and fear of cutting.

tl;dr The human body is smart. Be smart and draw your own conclusions.

>CICO doesnt work

its just a wrong statement though

OP here. Just bumping the thread and monitoring. Just got a kickass workout in, gunna read your guys discussion. You seem like pretty smart dudes.

To me, fasting seems like an easier way to cut. Like many others, I find it easier to fast, then eat well rather than eat very little every day.

I don't know if it actually helps preserve muscle or cut faster/more efficiently. But every time I "feast" then fast, I drop weight, seemingly quicker than when I just eat the same amount every day even though the deficit is the same.

Yup. As I said, it's just meant to provoke attention. It is false.

It works on the same level as fasting. Over time, gylcogen stores are depleted and similar hormonal changes occur.

Yeah I'm going to stop with that. It is to create attention.

What I mean to say is it doesn't work if you don't take certain factors into account, but that is not as catchy.

But I feel I've generated enough attention on this board that I can start getting down to brass tax and stop with the click-bait.

I want people to research this all for themselves as well. You should always think for yourself, no matter how much I tell you, or an expert tells you, we're all human and shit happens.

Think for yourself. Good George Harrison song by the way.

youtube.com/watch?v=EtRBkh04MqI

Fasting should be a part of everyone's life. I believe that's why it was mandatory in most religions, it's as if they knew something we didn't.

But even if you ignore weight loss and just consider autophagy! I can't get enough of it and there's not a lot of science on it. It rejuvenates the body in seemingly miraculous ways. And it is PREVENTATIVE care, it stops you from getting sick in the first place. Can't you see why the hospital and medicine interests wouldn't like that? If everyone fasted I believe they'd go out of business tomorrow.

But I digress, I don't ever want cancer, and I don't ever want wrinkles, and I don't ever want Alzheimer's. So I'm going to get all the autophagy gains I can.

I really think we've stumbled onto something incredible here, that is why I'm so passionate about it.

I mean fasting IS cico.

Its just zero cals in and all cals out.

The only interesting thing about fasting is if those hormonal claims are true.

Three weeks into IF now. Im loving it as well, but be careful with raving on about these alleged benefits. This seems over the top and if you want others to become aware of it, its better to refrain from make such grandiose claims

*making

the longevity stuff is true though

Dude. I'm sorry, but people won't fucking listen if I sound like a scientific study. They just won't. So I have to balance a lot of ethical aspects here.

My main priority is making sure nobody hurts themselves. If I make a grandiose claim, they should go research it, go prove me wrong, I would love that. But I try not to outright lie. Technically in a black and white world a lie is a lie. But, to me its a half-truth. Its like what the news does all the time when they make a sound-bite.

Gonna have to look up more on autophagy, it seems really interesting.

I feel a bit "fresher" after that fast, though only after the big meal that came after it. Got my energy back in the gym again and 24 hours later I'm still not hungry, and I get to eat (a lot) tomorrow while still dropping weight. Awesome!

>I don't ever want wrinkles
As someone incredibly concerned about getting wrinkles and ageing this makes me happy. Does it really slow wrinkles down?

I want to be that fit 80 year old who still lifts and runs and just, ya know, lives. I don't want the miserable old-person's home end. People seem to start degenerating at age 30 and by 50 already have a host of issues, which is so sad. It's so young, how can we be sick so young

Longevity stuff is true. Comes from increased GH (autophagy) and decreased IGF-1 (growth).

next to IGF-1 I mean (decreased growth)

Don't ask me dude, I'm baked. I think I hit the weights a little harder than I should have on this fasted metabolism. However, If you could find an article and post it here I'd be really grateful.

>The underlying mechanisms are the same
not really, caloric restriction may or may not lead to ketosis and insulin sensitivity while fasting definitely does

I have to admit that this has got to be one of the most intellectually stimulating threads I've seen in a long time, thanks guys. Really activated my almonds.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshinori_Ohsumi
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990190/
telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11683736/Five-day-fasting-diet-slows-down-ageing-and-may-add-years-to-life.html

Best thing I've ever done. It's literally changing my life on a daily basis.

Awesome, got myself some reading material. Thank you kindly.

...

what exactly could autophagy do about loose skin?

I read it multiple times in that context already.

in what ways?

Literally metabolize your skin for energy.

He met his anorexic wife at a feed the starving convention

The guy you replied to. Thank you, i will now know what to re read. I've learned about insulin, hgh and igf 1, but mostly in the context of pathology and SOME basic physiology. As advanced endocrine physiology is something beyond this level of knowledge (student). Thank you for helping me and putting so much work into your response. Know that it was not in vain.

is this proven or some esoteric "science"?

The fat is melting off. After bulking up for a very long time and getting excessively big, I started IF and even though I'm losing a little bit of muscle(I'll still look built because of a little genetics, little because of overbulk), the fat is melting off.

I'm going for aesthetic, so I do about 20-30 minutes of cardio, and then maintenance lifting to keep gains.

I'm seeing changes everyday and my confidence is through the roof.

Mostly anecdotal. Autophagy really doesn't have a lot of studies done on it, its pretty much an infant in the science world.

I have no clue about that kind of biology, could it work as you described it in theory?

Absolutely. My face already looks 5 years younger from a 5 day fast. Granted I'm almost down to lean weight.

It would basically be the body repairing itself by metabolizing the skin as protein. I'm pretty sure the anti-aging effects of reducing wrinkles is already documented so its definitely plausible.

Take this all with a grain of salt though and please research it. I'm very tired and I'm off to bed.

Good night

...

I'm a skinny fat 19 year old at 165lbs 6'0

What results would fasting get me?

Can we get more success stories for motivation?