Islam

have you taken intro to econ or polisci? one of the first concepts you learn is monopoly of violence

Islam is a great religion. Makes you give to the poor constantly, always makes you feel guilty for having more wealth than others, and so on and so forth. But also makes you feel empowered by the very nature of God when you are successful in your career/life/existential goals.

Honestly, nothing better than Islam. I can surely say it is the true religion. Jesus existed, after all. So did Mohammad. There is evidence of a Great flood. You are living on a world created by God. Created to serve a purpose. We are yet to find this purpose, but we are getting closer these days. If this was one year ago I would say this wasn't the case, but we have progressed! As a culture and a movement!

Islam is the "perfect" religion.

Unlike its predecessors it is geared towards conversion and cultural domination on a tier not seen in other religions. It has very little room for interpretation and change as well as having harsh punishments for apostates. Its made for converting people and keeping them converted.

I gotta admire its durability.

The initial states needed to be warlike, yes. But how aggressively/defensively they were was up to them. I'm supposing that's what we're talking about here. Obviously being aggressively defensive is no big deal. It's how Britain won the second World War.

Honestly, now, you should understand a state's existence is to provide the people with a certain perspective on life and a way to live that life in harmony with others. That's what we're all trying to do here.

You speak from an atheistic perspective.

See
It IS culturally beneficial. And God does exist, he wrote the book. THAT'S why people like it. It is clearly written by God.

And here's the thing about the Koran: you can read it and it describes events TODAY. Like RIGHT NOW. This pivotal movement into the third millennium, friends, starts with Islam. And it ends with another holy book.

We come for God, by God, through God, and his prophets.

Brilliant military and political leader. United the tribes of Arabia under a single religion. Probably did legitimately care for the poor and outcasts.

He should be looked at as a product of where he came from, which is pre-Muslim Arabia. It was a violent and sometimes brutal place, where your tribe offered strength and protection.

Addendum: God shifts through time. Time is nothing to him. Absolutely nothing at all.

You think the popo could accomplish anything by just asking nicely?

My point no proper religion of peace concerns itself with the state beyond advocating for good rule and the peace of God. Administering a state is engaging in violence by the sheer fact of the state's existence.

Plato's Republic would like a word with you.

A republic that was defensively ready for war at all times.

I'm not talking about plato's republic. I'm talking about religion. The kingdom of heaven is not of this world. Pretty much every religion agrees with that and stays the fuck away from the state/administrative utopianism.

The Republic is inherently a religious work. To say otherwise is asinine.

Islam IS neo-platonism.

Thanks persians.

It's not though, it's the foundational text for political theory and philosophy, the enemies of mysticism and asceticism

>Its culturally beneficial because it tells you to give to the poor ppls :)

Yeah, but if you consider individual linguistic groups, local customs and local identity as things to be admired and protected it isn't beneficial. The local cultures of dozens of people were assimilated and changed forever, instead of a wide and diverse range of individual cultures and linguistic groups we have a dozen different countries with their own dialect of Arabic with minority linguistic groups scattered around.

The whole work speaks of God in every book. The last book tells you what happens when you die.

Stop talking about things you haven't read. Better yet, stop making dogmatic assumptions which have no basis in reality.

Furthermore you will come at me and try to tell me that just because it mentions God doesn't mean it isn't a theological work.

But God is the foundation of the book itself. I have said this time and time again, but much like how you can equate the prime-mover concept of Aristotle with God's creation, so too can you equate the Platonic Good with virtues created by God himself. You are talking about a book, which manifests its laws and customs from the properties of 'souls'. Inherently, this is manifestly a religious work.

It even talks of judgment after you die. Certainly if any work were proof that religion could be combined with the state it's Plato's Republic.

Ah so here you are admitting the uniting influence of religion. In essence this really is proof of it's divine nature, Islam that is. It's uniting influence is much like anything else divine: it has a tendency to collect people, make them aware and understanding of a divine influence in their lives, and help them see the effects throughout their life that they have/ God has on them.

What you are talking about is the fact that you somehow want borders and barriers to be protected because you like pluralism, but screw that. Once there is one culture and one religion, we can progress that much further, technologically AND spiritually. But we cannot move forward unless we recognize divinity as a thing, the immaterial exists, and God is domain over all material and immaterial existence.

oh okay, I guess you haven't actually read it then

go read it

it will spook you, if is genuinely what you believe

Its because they engage in taqiya you soyboy cuck islamofag apologist. Oooooh I bet Donald Trump triggers you every time he talks about the wall or the ban on Islam.

A violent cult that rose from a group of bandits being led by a schizo. All of the peaceful parts were ripped from other local religions till they got kicked out of the big city, after which kill motherfuckers and take their shit as being rightfully yours as the disposessed became the order of the day.
After that snowballing power via conquest until all of the middle east was under their heel. Peace and submission being the same word helps them to say religion lf peace with a straight face.
1000 years of raids and wars against europe that never gets taught about in schools beyond the ebil crusades. Oh and for all the Alexandria fappers, they burnt down an even bigger budhist library with even more lost ancient knowledge.
Someone dig up the Veeky Forums pasta for me.

>The whole work speaks of God in every book.
idk what translation you read but this is untrue, the book uses the gods being inherently good as a justification for Plato's stupid political model. Even Augustine who sucked Plato's dick in every way rejects the earthly utopia for the heavenly one.

Not only are you muzzies dense you are arrogant as well, definitely is a product of roach/turk/desi culture, like I said in an earlier post the Bosniaks are alright.

tl;dr stop trying to build the City of God on earth faggot

Dude don't be a faggot if you're going to argue for or against shit.

>And it's why Veeky Forums likes it.
Are you new or just in denial?

You cannot stop us from trying!

Read the City of the Sun too! That is a good book.

Do you not see the amount of Muslim threads on here? They are generated on a daily basis and there is at least one thread on Islam up at any given time.

I have read it and that it is what I believe, maybe I have a more selective definition of religion and religious experience than you

And /pol/, a large anti-islam board that dominates the site exists, and the site gains right-wingers because of it's fame everyday.

Oh, far too selective, far too selective. Once you are on our side you can see how simple your side is, and how complex ours becomes. It's simply a struggle of being morally upright and doing things with concepts conducive to supporting that, and preventing your turpitude from affecting our probity

Argumentum ad populum!

Trust me, the biggest idea of this whole thing is that underdogs win. Mohammad was an underdog. He was even outmatched. But he beat his assailants through God's help.

/pol/ is like the Meccans. They will never learn. They will have to learn if they are to progress. Your mentalities are lost in sin. You are so focused on race and divisions.

Satan is severe. His powers are vast. Right after Mohammad died, the powers that be started misinterpreting the book. But now a cease of violence has given us the opportunity we have: to analyze the book as a miracle from God. To see that God wills us to give to the poor. To pray to him for moral successes. To look into nature to see his signs. To listen for him in the wind.

To see how rivers are formed and see his etching, perfectly. To see cows and see a design for us. To see horses and see a design for us. To see space and see an analogy between space and the seven seas. Everything is connected. Everything is a parable for each other!

Just think about the parable of the Ant in the Koran. Just think how much like ants people are, as well. It is only a matter of time. God overcomes all.

How is it ad populum? The argument is that Islam isn't popular here

kek

>But he beat his assailants through God's help.
All he did was raid caravans until he was sitting on sizable ritches and people interested in getting more dosh. Standard warlord shit. Then he took the city and kept killing and converting till he took over the region. Same thing as ISIS, nothing holy or magical, just killing people and press ganging locals under the threat of death.

Isn't popular with /pol/, the most retarded place on the internet. Just because it's on the same site as we are, doesn't mean we are connected in any way.

Absolute re-interpretive horseshit. The same thing that historians want to do with the world history in general. You idiots will never learn. He was persecuted because of his beliefs. He found believers in Medina, THEN traveled to Mecca to convert them, by word and faith alone.

and then Islam, Arabic and Caliphate peacefully spread by word of mouth across the Middle East and Maghreb. It was truly magical.

Yeah no Mr Bias. He got kicked out because he was an autistic jackass along with his fuccbois and they turned to raiding with the cevat that it was all gucci to claim all the stolen shit was their's in compensation for the shit that got confiscated when the city folks dropkicked the dipshits out.

white shariah now

War will always be in life in some measure.

Read Ecclesiastes.

Aisha thing is a meme and easily disproved by actual math. Like one source made four hundred years after Muhammad mentioned that she was 9, and it was probably to discredit the shi'a argument that Ali learned from Muhammad at a young age.

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Of course, it all makes sense now. Islam is the purest religion, and Judaism the most corrupt.

The Koran itself says that the Jews are unbelieving and that the Christians will be our friends, even though we are not to associate with them tremendously.

Doesn't change the fact that she cucked him and he had to make up the four non woman witnesses rule for sex crimes to save face.

Nigga Jews abd Muslims are closer than Jews and Christians.The only reason they hate each other is because of Greater Israel's land dispute.

muslims are all fat

>Nigga Jews abd Muslims are closer than Jews and Christians.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHAHA

ITT: taqiyya

Relatively dangerous in the modern world thanks to parts like Wahhabism. So long as moderates do not unite and come against the extremist forces that seem to lead it and be most vocal I can't see Islam settling peacefully in the west unless it becomes a dominant religion. It seems moderates would rather just sit aside and let the extremists win so long as they aren't harmed by them, but I'm no Muslim so I can't say this with any kind of authority. Historically it was quite a peaceful religion when ruling areas, certainly more so than the other two abrahamic faiths. Brutal in conquest as all warring is but as historical standards go, Muslims were benevolent in rule. In the modern age however, Islamic societies by and large have greater violence and religious conflict than the west. The times have changed, I think the Mongol conquests left their mark on Islam.

On a negative side of it, it's quite anti-intellectual. Now attribute what you will to this but the Arab world has a disproportionately lower level of scientific achievement. Even the supposed golden age of Islam was really just an exploitation of Byzantine and Persian knowledge. It's never had a true sense of freedom of speech or ideas, it's Islam and Islam only. Christian societies have had reformations and enlightenment periods, I really can't see Islam going through the same if ever. Couple this with Islam's trend to be a religious and political force as one, you get this anti-intellectualism sweeping into political life too. After all with any religious belief not separated from the state, you get politicians exploiting supposed piety for political gain over capable, secular leaders.

In the modern day, it's adherents are more violent and prone to committing violence in the name of Islam than any other religion. So I'm somewhat opposed to the religion being expanded in the west.

1/2

To back this a little more in terms of intellectualism, in 2002 the UN published an Arab Human Development Report. It concluded that Greece translates five times more books from English than the entire Arab world.
It continues
>Spain translates in one year more books from English to its language than the entire Arab world has in 1000 years
>roughly 20% (1/5) of the Arab world illiterate
>172,000 books were published in the United States in 2005, in comparison the arab world published 8710 in 2006.
>no more than 330 books are translated from English to Arabic annually

A semitic death cult founded by a kiddie fiddler.

Suitable for desert people living in desert conditions.

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Laugh all you want it's true. Talmud is not the Torah but the average goy doesn't know it even exists.

>not actually talking about the religion itself, just the history

Lel. Way to go, historyfags sure don't think for themselves do they?

>talking about the history of a religion is bad
>on a history and humanities board

Knowing the history of an issue is among the most vital necessities for understanding it. And the history of a subject can speak volumes for itself.

I think everyone's seen this already

Not calling it false or anything; just that it's old news I thought.

Personally I think did an excellent explanation of his point.

>History on the Veeky Forums board

I M A G I N M O I S H O K

Islam is the religion white supremacists wish they invented

Even muslim moderates are incongruous with Western culture because islam itself in its purest form is incongruous with Western culture. When, in the West, the term "moderate" is used to describe a muslim, it is fed to us as if it means they are nice people whose ideology is comparable with our own, as if there were a universal ideology, and the only "bad" ideologies are the extremists. This isn't the case, the beliefs of even the moderate muslims would be seen as abhorrent in the eyes of the modern West. Even these moderates believe that apostasy carries the punishment of death, that women ought be killed for having pre-marital sex by their families as a matter of honour (the so called "honour-killings" comment that Justin Trudeau is mocked for making is making reference to such an incident happening in Canada).
The "nice" muslims that people cite as being proof that muslims can integrate are either apostates in all but name, or practicing taqiyya.

Semetic religions were a mistake

This desu.

It's the biggest board on the site and their population is not somehow limited to posting on one board.

It isn't. It's exactly what muslims believe, their usual excuse is that she must have entered puberty early.
This wouldn't be a problem if he wasn't supposed to be the perfect man.

Learn to use your phone or reset your router, retard

Why do people on this board find, Aishas age(may god be pleased with her) strange?
Is it just for show or are guys not of aware of how young some Queens married in Europe?
Like queen Maria of Castile, Margaret of Anjou, Margaret I of Denmark?

Because politically based marriages, usually arranged from a young age for a king/queen to have one partner for life is extremely different to a marriage to a six year old when you already have many marriages.

Because we don't morally laud any of those monarchs. Let alone think of them as a paragon of virtue.

Most kings don't seem to only marry once in their life time.
How is that different from the prophets marriages? Before prophethood he married a woman 20 years his senior and was married to her until she passed.
After that he often married for political reasons.
Aisha was his third marriage.

But it was socially acceptable back then?
It's part of your culture

>But it was socially acceptable back then?
we don't morally laud any of those monarchs. Let alone think of them as a paragon of virtue.

>Honestly don't believe it's any more troublesome than any other religion has been.
Is the only religion currently trying to take over the world and behead anyone who isn't apart of it.

>Most kings don't seem to only marry once in their life time.
Of course you say with with zero evidence backing it.
Also said Kings who married more than once married one after the other. Mohammed had concurrent wives and 13 in total.
You're trying to equate European monarchs with Mohammed but it's falling flat, they are so incredibly different they cannot be compared.

>what is false equivalence fallacy
also
>islam probably could use a few changes or some better governance
This is what the average bluepilled westerner will believe.
Islam cannot be reformed, how are you supposed to reform something that deems it's self and is deemed by others to be 'perfect'?

Just because other religions have been reformed doesn't necessarily mean this """religion""" can. Let's say that you're gonna reform Islam by picking out the good and dropping what is bad, and you're the one deciding what is good and bad. Well this Islam you're gonna pick and choose from, what is it? It's Quran, Sira, and Hadith, so therefore if you're gonna reform Islam, you have to reform the Quran, the Sira, or the Hadith, which have people already saying that "durr they are being tampered with by le ebil westerners!"

Looking at the Quran, what does it say about it's self? Quran 3:7, "No one knows the true interpretation except Allah," that's the interpretation of the Quran, "but those firm in knowledge say "we believe in it, all of it is from our Lord." So since every verse comes from Allah, who are you to pick and choose amongst it?

So therefore you the person picking and choosing, Allah says you don't know how to pick and choose anyway. Quran 11:1. "This is a book who verses are perfect." So every verse is perfect, who are you to say they're not?

Quran 5:3. "This day I perfected for you your religion "and completed my favor upon you "and have approved for you Islam as a religion." Its religion is perfect. That includes Quran and Sunna. What are you gonna do about that? How do you reform perfection? Look, Islam is perfect in its entirety and each individual part. Every verse, every sentence, every Hadith is perfect.

Muhammad is a perfect model for a human life. There's 91 verses in the Quran which say so. So therefore his Sunna is perfection. There's not good Sunna and bad Sunna. It's all Allah's perfection.

>some better governance
Let's say you're so brilliant that you're smarter than Allah, and you're smarter than Muhammad, and you come up with this brilliant plan for reformation. So what, who do you go to? There's no authoritative body to approve or disprove. You can't go to Al-Azhar because they don't have any real authority. They're just a group of scholars issuing opinions. There is no central body that can issue changes in Islam, so your brilliant reformation plan doesn't have anywhere to go, no one cares.

This is not a verse or two, this is a systemic problem. It is a doctrine that you need to change, and you can't change it with a sentence or a verse or two. Islam is not what a Muslim says, it's what Muhammad says. So therefore you can't go to ask some Muslim, well here's what I think a reformation would be, and he would go, oh I think you're right. There's 1 1/2 billion Muslims, so which one are you gonna ask for to approve of your plan for reformation? Whereas when we quote Muhammad, it is objective.

We've all met nice pleasant Muslims, and so we say well look, if Muslims are nice, there is a nice Islam they're following. No, they're not following all of Islam. They're just practising the Islam that's found in Mecca, not in Medina. Nice Muslims cannot condemn or say Medina is wrong, they just don't practice it. But that's not reforming, it's just not doing what it says.

But their wives ages aren't brought up and they don't get vilified for it when they're spoken about today, why is that?

Yeah you're right, but my problem wasn't with polygamy. It was with how young she was and how young women married several centuries after that.

You're just playing dumb.
I don't follow random monarchs religiously, i don't call them perfect humans or seek to emulate them in any way.
He wasn't just a monarch, he was a fucking prophet, he should not be subject to changing morals because he's perfect.

>whats the stance

you got it all wrong, this is not pol or reddit with sheep mentality where we make posts to get approval of other posters

>Islam is great because it comes from God
>I know it comes from God because the Quran says so
You guys do realize that this kind of faith-based argument has no value here, right ? OP's question involves looking at islam from an external point of view to see how it fares compared to other religions in modern society.

Just a religion, both good and bad. Leaning more towards bad these days, but just another religion trying to take over the world for the nth time

Not playing dumb, just having a hard time understanding your point.
He's a prophet but a human aswell, he made mistakes.
What I don't understand is why people bring up great Kings and Queens but ignore the age issue.
You might not see them as religious leaders but you still praise them and portray them positively.

>Pakistani culture rather than Islam itself
It's only because of Wahhabist (Arabian) influence within Pakistani culture that Pakistan is so fucked up for the past few decades

Which I already addressed here: And you moved the goalposts.

Are you not muslim?
Islam teaches that Mohammad was a paragon of virtue, that he is to be emulated and revered.
If he was fucking a child then how is that not the virtuous thing to do according to islam? If that was such a great sin then why didn't god tell him to stop?

I prefer Dagon.

I feel like the lack of a figure like the pope hurts it. Yeah sure the pope can be very corrupt. But just looking at Francis and John Paul II you can see that the pope is great for keeping the religion up to date with modern morals and thoughts.

>Religion of Peace? Religion of War?

Muslim here. That's hilariously missing the point. Islam is a religion that spans all forms of human activity, from bartering to taking prisoners to sexual intercourse. And that is just the Shari'ah, the religious aspects are pretty simple and easy to follow (even if you must pray often).

So, it literally can't be a religion of PEACE or WAR because its teachings necessarily have to cover both to be relevant. It's not like Christianity, which covers some themes and principles and ignores a ton of other stuff.

>But just looking at Francis and John Paul II you can see that the pope is great for keeping the religion up to date with modern morals and thoughts.

Absolutely FUGgin haraam

It's a religion of war lad

Grows mostly by births, not by conversion.

Well, the ride was fun as long as it lasted.

>Islam is the religion white supremacists wish they invented
This!

Religion is just ideology + belief in the supernatural. Remember that for every religion. Islam’s ideology includes framework for a totalitarian state that destroys ancient culture and history wherever it goes. This is all technically correct and undeniable. Most people are essentially kind, so plenty of, even the vast majority of Muslims are good people.