How did the soviets get conned into wanting capitalism? soviet system was so much better than what came after

how did the soviets get conned into wanting capitalism? soviet system was so much better than what came after

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Le no food

because no one really cares about freedom, justice, democracy etc they just want to eat, be safe and be warm and dry.

Shit living conditions and zero personal freedoms. Want to leave your country? You're a traitor that deserves to get tortured. Want a bigger, better home, want to enjoy western goods too? You're a traitor that deserves to get tortured. Want to eat more and tastier? You're a traitor that deserves to get tortured. Soviet system was worse than what came after.

>soviet system was so much better than what came after

The 90s were objectively worse for russian civilians than the last years of the USSR. Like, you have to be actively inventing alternate histories to claim that life didn't go down the shitter and the country didn't collapse when the neoliberal reforms were pushed through.

>a failed state is worse than a semi-functioning state

Shocking.

It doesn't change the fact that a liberal democracy is vastly superior to a state capitalist shithole, tankie.

>being replaced by migrants and having to take loans for everything is great

Both systems have their upsides and downsides

>the soviet collapse lead to an overall worse situation
WOW

>last few 2-3 years when the soviets had given up trying to control every aspect of your life vs the decades before it when the secret police could make your family disappear for wanting to go to America and live better there

Just because your abusive boyfriend has stage 4 cancer and is pretty much a living corpse doesn't annul all the evil he did while his malign tumor was still undetected.

Dude Fuck you your such as tupid fuckign piece of shit how could you not understand that Communism is the wave of the fucking future mann!!!!!! You sound like some asshole form the fifties bitching about the fucking poor people have some goddamn rights because we all know you don't like the FUCKING BLACKS, GRANDPA! Why you do some fucking research and learn about how communist nations inspired the fucking world to implement social programs so assholes like you could sit at hoem all fucking day living off of welfare like a fucking leach. Castro made Cuba an amazing country when he took power Batista was a fuckign crook that stole public money for his own fucking personal gain. You're such a dumb shit why don't you research shit before you say stuff. Obviously some of the communist regimes didn't work but if we just found the right guy we could give equality for all. And that's the problem with capitalism and democracry, where rich greedy fucks like you go around trying to pass phony laws and steal from other people just to get ahead. it makes me fucking sick to know that you exist. I don't understand why people have such a problem with equality for all, and somehow beileve the lies that capitalism will make EVERYOne fucking rich if the "work hard enough". Well you know what there are many people with disadvantages and disabilities like not being educated or being black or whatever, and capitalism just fucks them over so hard in the ass because there's no way they can work hard enough. Just fuck off and go die

>Both systems have their upsides and downsides

What is your unit of measurement? Even from a purely utilitarian perspective a liberal democracy is superior.

>democracy
Democracy died with the greek city states. There is not a single democratic country in the world right now.
>What is your unit of measurement
I gave you two examples in my previous post

Glasnost made Soviet citizens realise for the first time that they didn't have a higher quality of life compared to the West, in fact, they were significantly behind. Is say the closest they ever got was in the 70s.
They desperately clamoured for capitalism naively thinking the only direction was up. They jumped in with both feet instead of gradually transitioning to capitalism like China has.

>Democracy died with the greek city states. There is not a single democratic country in the world right now.

This is some serious arguing in bad faith. Liberal democracies are representative democracies, stop being a pedantic faggot.

Only if you give a shit about raw GDP and literally nothing else. The west has been stagnant for a good 20 years now and people are gettibg angrier and angrier. It was good for about 40 years, but its time is quickly coming to an end. Mass migration from the third world will definitely go first, it's already political poison to support it.
I'm not saying communism will happen, I don't think it ever will, but we'll probably see a more isolated version of capitalism, maybe divided into regional blocs? Idk.

Oh for God's sake, you don't actually think that democratic regimes exist in the year 2018, do you? Why the fuck would the elite give people any power? Seriuosly, why would anyone willingly surrender his position on the top of the world just beacuse of some vote?
Americans, for instance, get a show every four years. Two puppets run around insulting each other while their master shake hands and count the profits in the shadows.

#woke

Western "leftists" will never understand how shitty spending a couple of nights in jail just for telling a joke truly is.

>state capitalist
This word annoys me so much. Capitalism is not a synonym for free market. It describes the rule of money and is a real problem (the same polmorons who deny it describe the same thing as le jews).

People gaining something from a specific system does not a conspiracy make.

People do have power to choose their leader, and it's not inconsequential who that leader is, but I get that you're just a cynic.

>People do have power to choose their leader

Really? And where exactly does that power come from?

This is some delicious pasta. Give the chef my thanks

The ballot box obviously. Are you being deliberately obtuse, or are you just retarded?

Well I could call it state socialism if you want to, because to me state capitalism and state socialism are practically the same things. In both systems the state has responsibility for the production and distribution of everything in society, and private ownership of business is illegal.

Are you fucking serious? The ballot box? Is it a holy box sent by God that nobody can open and tamper with the ballots? No, it isn't. There is literally zero guarantee that the votes even get counted and yet you people worship your democracy as if it is sacred and perfect.

Of course people can tamper with it and corruption also happens a lot, but are you seriously suggesting that simply because corruption happens we should throw in the towel and just accept dictatorship?

Christ, you're like a utopian who hates the world because it isn't perfect. You probably are too.

What's the answer than? Some other totalitarian regime where our lives will be objectively worse or are you some reactionary drumming for a return of monarchies?

>hates the world
Where did you get that from?
>accept dictatorship
But that's exactly what you have right now. An oligarchy, to be specific.

Small communities that can actually be ruled democratically. Unfortunately, that is impossible in the 21st century and things won't get better.

Russia now enjoys way higher standards of living than the USSR. Still shit by Western standards, but you can't make a poor country rich in two decades.

>All democratic countries have an electoral commission

Which cannot be bought or tricked.
Democracy can only work in a perfect world.

>But that's exactly what you have right now.

No it's not.

>No it's not.
Yes, it is. Corporations and CEOs have control over government policies. That is an oligarchy.

All democratic countries have an electoral commission (or whatever it is called in spicnigmerica) to count the votes, designated by the legislators or by the Supreme Court.

It is actually very difficult to steal an election in this day and age, even actual dictatorships like Russia or Venezuela which regularly do so have trouble covering their tracks

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3478593/

Edgy, my dude

>small communities
If you even slightly looked into history you would know that the city state is never ever going to return. The only thing we have even resembling a city state these days is Hong Kong. In this globalised economy and the power of global politics it will never happen, for better or worse.

In what way is that edgy?
>you would know that the city state is never ever going to return
That is literally what I said in the second part of my post.

>Corporations and CEOs have control over government policies. That is an oligarchy.

They don't have "control" over government policies. They can influence policies, just like in any pluralistic liberal democracy, but they can't "control" anything, because they don't have a monopoly on violence.

Entire world now enjoys higher living standards compared to what it was 30 years ago

>There is literally zero guarantee that the votes even get counted
Yes there is because in most western democracies it's literally the citizens who do the counting. I already did it once some years ago. Of course the Bilderbergers or Illuminati or the NWO could just disregard that and decide as they please, but how would that be different in a socialist dictatorship?

>how would that be different in a socialist dictatorship?
I never said that a socialist dictatorship is better in this way.

>.uk
Get out!

So you're providing absolutely no alternatives and only shitposting. Got it.

yes statistics suggest faking your statistics impoves everything

Really? Because most African countries wouldn't agree. In fact many countries are objectively worse than they were 30 years ago. Your stance is almost entirely centered around the western world.

>there are many people with disadvantages and disabilities like not being educated or being black
Subtle, 8/10

People could now become millionaires, that's why. And obviously, not all of them, just the small minority, but since capitalism is about an elite group of people controlling everything through money, then they wanted it so they could become top dogs.

Also, generation change. There were capitalism schools from the international monetary fund alongside the institutional reforms and the subsequent crisis of 1998, (big shocker, privatizing shit derives in economic crisis, specially when the asian neighborhood also collapses in the asian crisis that sent everything to shit) which then allowed a small minority to arise, aided once again from relief monetary packages from the IMF

The generational part comes handy went taking in consideration that humans can learn new skills up until 35, difficulty arises up to 45 but it's still possible but after 45 learning new shit is increasingly hard, making education not efficient. So they decided not to teach capitalism to over 45 years old people and just wait for them to die

That's how you teach a new view to a intervened country: make SOME of them millionaires by teaching the youth how to become rich and ignore the oldest population, part of that youth will become millionaires and show off, others will see it and say "hey, capitalism does that, I want in!!", so it becomes desired.

Then why do literally anything? If the Lizard People rule us anyway there's no incentive to get invested in politics, right?

>but since capitalism is about an elite group of people controlling everything through money, then they wanted it so they could become top dogs.

People weren't really "disappearing" at that point.

They didn't get conned. It was a shit system that collapsed. The only people who advocate it or want it back are the weak and the inept

Capitalism is about the free exchange of goods and services, not some retarded idea about elites controlling everything. Humans aren't equal, few people are capable of earning tremendous amounts of money and so few people do

>guys! private ownership of the means of production to maximize profit for their owners or investors in no way whatsoever allows the capitalist to use that profited money to control legislature through lobbying lawmakers in congress to pass laws that benefit the company and the industry by deregulating everything that doesn't benefits them!

there's more to life than living standards, ameribro.

Most countries have laws against that. In my country, for instance, all campaign money comes from the government and is allocated to parties according to their previous election results.

Stop projecting your Ameriturd problems as a flaw of capitalism.

Ктo cкaзaл, чтo мы плoхo жили?

People are getting angry but that has not correspondence to falling standards of living. Those are actually up.

If anything they are angry because of cultural and economic changes like the death of huge factory complexes

Russia made a terrible transition to capitalism. It was too quick, too fast, and accompanied by the collapse of the USSR. In the short term people celebrated, but if the USSR had survived and slowly capitalized, it would have been better.

They always had Capitalism. State-Capitalism is still Capitalism.
Kill all tankies.

>Socialists and Communists finding a way to call something fascist
It really is funny how an authoritative idealouge is fixated on hating authoritarian idealouges and calling everything they don’t like fascist.

I think it probably had more to do with the fact that very few people had either disposable income or entrepreneurial expertises, with the exception of a bunch of gangsters, who now have their fingers in every pie from banking to nuclear waste disposal

Because they are black. Niggers being dumb is not a myth but reality.

yeah, “fascism” is a boogyman word. the rest of the cartoon is correct tho.

>a failed state is worse than a semi-functioning state
yeltisin's Russian semi functioning? hahhhahhahahaha

The other way around you retard.

What is it about Veeky Forums that makes the board unable to see anything wrong with the USSR?

we have daily "based Poland stopping the Judeo-bolsheviks" threads, mate.

Only americans fall for the credit meme.

I can agree to that.

...

He killed millions...

the collapse of a nation is not a good time user.

that cartoonist is so russian it hurts

t. Nordic master race

Should have gone through withNEP

If you seriously believe in communism you should be thrown into the woods with nothing but a fig leaf for 2 weeks.
Put your lack of money where your mouth is

Ordinary Soviet citizens didn't, and if they did they had second thoughts pretty soon afterwards. But an unaccountable "vanguard party" saw their chance to get rich and took it, betraying the revolution in the process, and ordinary citizens lacked the power to stop them.

Leninism was a mistake.

DFNS. Arguably Switzerland too.

This was the whole reason everything fell apart for the USSR. If the state planners prioritized consumer goods and housing instead of military hardware and space programs there would be less demand for Capitalism.

t. proud American who criticizes before understanding