Truth about the cheddar man

So everyone has seen this pic of the supposed ancient brit who was black but was he black? The whole claim of him being black is based on not finding modern genes for light skin and therefore they assume he must have had brown skin but lets look a bit deeper.
>belonged to Haplogroup U5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddar_Man
>Haplogroup U5 and its subclades U5a and U5b today form the highest population concentrations in the far north, among Sami, Finns, and Estonians.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_U_(mtDNA)
Therefore we can conclude...

Other urls found in this thread:

genetiker.wordpress.com/
open-genomes.org/analysis/PCA/Eurogenes_Ice_Age_Eurasians_PC_plot_1-2-3.html
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

...that he was infact swarthy like the sami were (before their relatively recent mixing with nordics) rather than black as an african. This explains the lack of genes for light skin, he didnt have light skin like european but had the swarthy skin type of northern sami and eskimo type people.

Hell yeah.

>cheddar man
He was a sentient cheese wheel with a top hat

user, the problem is that he lacked the alleles that correlate with lighter skin. These same alleles only made it into Europe during the neolithic and later IE migrations. Haplogroups matter little to nothing since those modern populations carry the correct alleles for light skin due to the aforementioned migrations.

>complains about Neanderthal admixture
>that eyebrow
Okay
No he had a cheese wheel for a hat
Honestly and you browse Veeky Forums

As a rule I don't care about historical skin colour reconstruction, but what bugs me in this case is the portrayal in mainstream media; they jump from dark skin to black (which is a modern racial category). At the same time they claim that race is a social construct but they don't hesitate to use the construct as a historical legitimization of modern racial patterns.

Well done user you have common sense

Except he's wrong. Genes responsible for light skin have nothing to do with haplogroups.

Thats the point, EEF were heavier in basal-rich admixture, one of the later migrations out of Africa and had little to no neanderthal-admixture compared to the European hunter gatherers.

That's bullshit. Sami are mixed with Uralics and Indo-Europeans. Also 9000 years is enough to remove dark skin alleles.

Lol I enjoy this pic.

I agree he was likely not as dark as portrayed, but your logic is faulty.

What's bothering me is how easily they switched from "there are no natives in Britain, so accept immigrants" to "native Brits were originally black, so accept immigrants".

U5a is an Indo-European mtDNA marker. U5b is a mistery, possibly North African ENF that was later randomly quite popularized in Lapps for a reason.

>Indo-European mtDNA marker
No such thing. IE were patriarchal people.
You probably mean U5a is from the steppe?
U5 is WHG though.

>No such thing
That doesn't mean there weren't Indo-European women.

But if a woman and an outsider male weren't capable of creating an Indo-European child could women truly be Indo-European?

...

EEF had the same quantify of Neanderthal DNA as WHGs, it was CHG who lacked it, Otzi had more Neanderhal DNA than most modern Europeans

So he's not black, he's inuit?

Makes sense as EEF and Natufians had UHG admixture but CHG and IranN didn't.

He is close to being almost pure caucasoid. Modern Europeans are mongrels.

CHG heavy populations have the same amount of Neanderthal as Europeans

Which is half as much compared to mongoloids and australoids. Probably because basal eurasian diluted it.

Any idea what study is this picture from?

I wouldn't call the Sami "pure Caucasoid."

Early Neolithic Anatolia. Can't remember the name.

If you're going to quote wiki why not include the whole context. The study that was mentioned which determined he was in U5 was in the very next sentence mentioned to not have been subjected to peer review and the sample was suspected to be contaminated. Fuck off OP.

Contaminated or not there's about 99% chance he had U5. Other mtDNA simply did not exist in that part of Europe at that time.

WHG is almost completely unrelated to Saami and they even have less ANE than many other Europeans due to high modern Siberian admixture.

Most Siberians have comparable rates of ANE to Northern Europeans. Mansi, Selkups and Kets far more. I'm not really sure how much Sami have but it should be a bit more.

Which of the following faces do you think most resembled the first Europeans. If you said the one on the right, you are not a brainlet. If you said the one of the left, you're a brainlet.

Wait, are there people in England really saying that because the Cheddar Dude was dark skinned that he was black as in Sub Saharan Black?

Depends on what you ANE. Modern Europeans have more ANE-specific west eurasian component than anybody else. In fact modern Europeans have it more than MA1 did.

genetiker.wordpress.com/
genetiker.wordpress.com/

Saami have it less than many other north and east Europeans.

Siberians have their own mixed drifted components but Europeans have the same component as the main component of MA1, AG2 and AG3

I'm not sure what the hell that means. ANE is defined with MA1 and AG3. Pure ANE didn't exist in Europe and modern Europeans have around 25-90% Neolithic Anatolian admixture which decreases ANE while Siberians have 50-80% East Asian admixture which likewise decreases ANE, but it was purer form in Siberia.

>all this coverage of cheddar man
I wonder who could be behind these posts.

How come so many people here are into haplogroups?

Is it a fetish to learn all these distributions?

ANE were mixed and MA1 probably not fully differentiated to Begin with but ADMIXTURE can to an extent isolate west eurasian related ancestry specific to it from its mongoloid alleles and modern Europeans have more of this component than MA1 did.This is perfectly possible as fully formed WHG has much more WHG ancestry than let's Kostenki.

I think it was already known that light skin developed relatively late, after European and East Asian stocks diverged (which was quite a long while after modern humans first left Africa), since pale Europeans and pale Asians are pale in different ways genetically; they have different mutations leading to light skin, which means the last common ancestor was dark.

It's a slightly accurate way to know about ancient migrations.

Brainlets get stuck in craniology and phenotypical stuff, but genetic studies stomp on that bullshit.

the big misdirection is they present it like modern brits are descended from him

So why separate this West Eurasian for no reason? If ANE was a mix we don't even know which part was in Siberia first.

>Therefore we can conclude...

That finns are in fact white and not mongolian and that finland, not greece is the birth place of modern civilization and the lost "atlantis" of ancient times.

True but modern Siberians are mixed with somethin similar to AG2/AG3

Of course. Mal'ta Buret went extinct not too long after MA1 lived. Their relatives who survived were the real ANE because they passed on their genes to living people. AG types were ancestors of both Native Americans and EHG with different substrate populations.

>went extinct
That;s unknown could have survived at low members. All post-LGM populations are different in that they no longer have any australoid and middle eastern affinity(evident from PCA and K clustering but less so from f/d statistics). Could be that they got bottlenecked and lost those allelles.

open-genomes.org/analysis/PCA/Eurogenes_Ice_Age_Eurasians_PC_plot_1-2-3.html

The area became depopulated. Later mesolithic individuals there in Lokomotiv cemetery were R1a and C instead of basal R.

>R1a and C instead of basal R.
Could have mutated into R1. Obviously there were later population movements but it doesn't mean MA1 like population didn't evolve into modern ANE.

>

>Neolithic cavemen got by genocided and barely managed to pass on DNA in the double digits
Tell me us something we don't know, then again this does sort of explain why Rowan Atkinson exists.

>"there are no natives in Britain"
If I was Welsh that statement would piss me the fuck off.