How revolutionary was Jesus of Nazareth? The historic figure mind you...

How revolutionary was Jesus of Nazareth? The historic figure mind you. I'm just beginning to fully realize how much of an impact this person had on humanity.

He was the Gandhi of the Israelites.

Gandhi is overrated as fuck.

Not at all. He was a minor religious figure commanding a fringe following that mostly took off after, not before he died. Paul is the real revolutionary figure.

This.

Christians were nothing before the time of the martyrs being eaten alive by lions on the colosseum for refusing to renounce their beliefs. That had a huge impact on the Roman public, more so than Jesus' preaching ever did.

He was nothing more than a Jewish preacher leading a small fringe movement in some bumfuck forsaken Roman province. The Christians that followed after his death made it mainstream.

It's literally where the word "martyr" comes from.

Probably not very revolutionary during his lifetime or else there would be more records of him. Obviously he was hugely influential through his followers though.

What I meant was his 'message of love' for me that was revolutionary, here you have this wierd jew who would cohort with the wretched members of society (e.g. hookers, lepers, poor people, etc.) and act with humility and compassion all the while preaching to 'spread the love' so to speak and the idea caught on. No matter how disorted or diverse christianity has become, the fundamental ideas which jesus preached and demonstrated, love, mercy, and compassion still lives on.
Note that I did not include the whole 'son of god' thing.

Not particularly, he was one of several roadside preachers, not the first to claim performance of miracles or divine heritage. He chose the perfect time to enter the scene though, as there were mounting tensions in Judaea against Rome, particularly over the plans to build a Roman Eagle over the Temple Mount, and his petit revolt lent credence to his anti-authoritarian reform and paved the way for the spread of Judeo-Christian teaching amongst the Gentiles (almost certainly a necessity of his disciples' to avoid Roman and Judaic authority alike)

You can find the golden rule in the old testament.

"Do to no one what you yourself dislike."
—Tobit 4:15
"Recognize that your neighbor feels as you do, and keep in mind your own dislikes."
—Sirach 31:15

You can also find similar ideas in the teachings of Confucius, Budda or in ancient Egypt. All long before Jesus.

It of course gets always played down as it happened with catholicism later. Only expansive religions will survive and turning the other cheek is suicidal.

>If Britain doesn't get the hell out of India, I'll starve myself to death on television

>wait, that worked?

Worshipped before He was even born and continues to do so today, so you tell me. All of His followers back then followed His teachings. To say that it was His followers alone made Christianity is brainlet tier thinking when the Word Himself was present.

So was Jesus

>the prophet of the largest religion in the world
>overrated

>want to have a good thread about religion
>atheists come in and shitpost
why do i always expect a different outcome

He was only made into that long after he died though. The actual historic figure got stuck to some wood, died and had his body dumped in whatever passed for a garbage bin in that era. His followers were the ones to make him into the important figure he became later on.

yet without him would the religion exist? that's like saying even though romulus founded rome he's not important because rome was made great by other men. the base of something is the most important part for if it did not exist, the great works built upon it would not exist. stop trying to explain why christ isn't important and go back to spamming the black sun on /pol/

Romulus wasn't important though. Him and his brother assuming they existed were low-born sons of a prostitute.

>>would the religion exist without him?
Probably yeah, it would look different, and have a different name probably and may not have spread as far, but the great man theory of history is bunk, xtianity arose because of the social conditions in roman judaea at the time. Those conditions don't go away if the historical Yeshua doesn't exist.

Which posts are you interpreting as atheist shitposting? Just because you disagree with something doesn't make it shitposting.

>the belief that the messiah came would still have existed even if the messiah didn't come
do think before you type

im well aware of the difference between what i disagree with and what is mindless shitposting

>>implying there hadn't been a messianic figure already and many more thereafter
>>implying there wouldn't have been a different person in the role if the historical jesus hadn't been there
Do you?

It's complicated.
>Ways he was revolutionary
His main critique of the Pharisees (despite his ideals being closest to them out of the main sects of Jewish clergy) was that they had become too concerned with the cultic laws rather than caring for the people.
Israel at the time had what's referred to as a 'purity culture'; people who were seen as being impure or otherwise disfavored by God were seen as being on the lower rungs of society. You follow God's laws, good things happen. You don't, bad things happen. Ergo, people who suffer brought it upon themselves. You may recognize this as the basis for the bastardized theology of the 'prosperity gospel'.
So, priests would be more concerned with maintaining their purity in the eyes of God. They would rigorously follow the Oral Law (basically a set of by-laws where if you followed them, there was no chance you could break a vaguely-worded Biblical law), keep prayer times, perform rituals, and avoid people who they felt would impurify them.
By associating with the lowest of society (beggars, prostitutes, lepers, the crippled, etc.), Jesus was more or less telling them that they're looking at it all wrong and they need to radically reevaluate their views on God.
Likewise, he suggested that he would be the one to 'fulfill the law'. Modern Christianity takes this as meaning that through his death and resurrection, humanity can be saved through him, and thus subscribing to Jewish law isn't necessary for salvation. Regardless of Christianity, it suggests that he intended to render large swathes of Jewish law moot.

>The historic figure mind you
We know virtually nothing about him

>that's like saying even though romulus founded rome
Interesting analogy, since romulus probably didnt exist. Jesus could very easily not have existed as well, althoug h balance of evidence suggests he did

>Ways he wasn't revolutionary (in the sense of the time)
He associated with tax collectors. Basically, the Jewish view of local civil servants for the Romans was that they were Quislings; they sold out their own people to make a quick buck with their foreign oppressors. Tax collectors had a worse reputation for overtaxing places and keeping what the Romans didn't know about. By virtue of being visible and easily-hated symbols of the Roman administration, they were often targets for harassment or attacks by more zealous Jewish groups. By associating with tax collectors, Jesus also would've pissed off revolutionaries who wanted to oust all symbols of Roman influence.
This is exemplified in the "render what is Caesar unto Caesar" story. Basically, some Pharisees tried to trap Jesus by asking him whether it was lawful for Jews to obey the Roman taxes. If he said yes, he would lose support from the Jews who hated the taxes (i.e., all of them). However, if he said no, he would become a target for Roman persecution due to wanting to subvert Roman rule.
So, he dodges the trap by answering "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and render unto God what is God's." By doing so, he cemented that he wasn't the most radical Jew ever, but he wasn't a ROman collaborator either.

Thank you for the reply, this is what I wanted to point out as being 'revolutionary'. The way he challenged the status quo through mercy and compassion which inspired countless others to follow his example.