What ethnicity/people were the templars?

The French were white back then

I thought majority of them were english ?

LEL

Only in the 3rd crusade I think

Ah okay, is that picture only from the first crusade?

>French
>White
>Ever
Whiter than you Mohammed

Because you've watched too much American pop history media
And Americans love making everything pre-1776 about England (ever notice how many movies/games about the Romans take place in Britannia despite it being the least relevant Roman province there was?)

Most crusaders were French, that's why the muslims ended up using the term "Franks" to refers to Crusaders in general eventually

Calm down pussy boy, i actually haven't watched or seen anything on the crusade i just thought that majority of them were English.

No, the pic is for the entire existence of the Templars
It was a French order, that's why the king of France managed to destroy it so easily
Had it been an English order, this wouldn't have been possible

Also, is wrong
The Third Crusade, albeit more English than the previous two, was still mainly French
And I'm not just talking about the Frechmen from England (like Lionheart and most of his nobles) but also of te Frechmen of te Crusader states and ofc those directly from France

It was a mix of European cultures depending on which crusade it was. There were Normans, Norsemen, French, English, Italians, Germans, Spanish, and probably more I'm forgetting about. I'd say the French dominated the Crusades, though.

Were any Crusaders from England or britain?

I thought Lionheart was English.

>i just thought that majority of them were English

The fact you thought that, like most normies do, is the result of American pop culture
No one cares about whether you understad it or not

Altho I think the fact England, long after the end of the Crusades, adopted the crusader cross as it's national flag may play a part too

Jesus christ you fucking austist neckbeard calm the fuck down.
You are just insulting me for wanting to ask about something involving history which this board is deigned for.

Yes (especially during the 3rd Crusade) but they were mostly Norman or Angevin nobles
Nothing English about them

He was the son of a French count who moved to England and became king three years before his birth
Richard never bothered learning English languae, and spent most of his life in his parents ancestral lands in Western France

If you ever look at his statue in London, you'll notice that his name is written in Frech, the one language he spoke

Dude, you're the only one with insults in your posts
The other guy is merely condescending

So condescending shouldn't be seen as an insult?
Stay out of this thanks.

>amerifat
>white
pick one tyrone

rolling for my mutt

>1 mutt
pls at least 2

please stop this isn't funny

Shit, got the minus face.

...

I thought there would’ve been a lot more spanish
‘Reconquesta’ and all

Rolling

Templats had nothing to do with the reconquista
And the reason there weren't that many Spanish crusaders is because they were too busy in Spain to chimp out in the Levant

he was king of england but was as french as they come, the "english" kings at the time controlled more then half of france

richard spend only 6 months in england for the 10 years he was king there

rolling

rolling

or The choice is yours.

the spanish had their own order (the order of santiago)

just like germans had the teutonic knights

Only the Anglos had no order

el perro americano...

Hospitaliers were mostly french also, right?

Yes, although there were quite a few Italians too
See pic

I think lots of English knights joined the Knight's templar.
For example in London there is Temple Church which was a templar church.
England didn't really take part in crusades that much due to it's separation.
Notable English contributions however were in the third crusade when the English contigent was fairly large and King Richard I was a famous English leader (although he was quite French!)
The English did have a notable Chivalric order in the Order Of The Garter.
Most crusaders were French however as the population of France was the largest in Europe and it was sort of the heart of Europe

Why do people in this board seems so obssesed with ethnicity?

Were there even English knights at all?
I know that there were knights from England, but they were mostly Normans or Angevins

What I wonder is whether there were some "ethnic English" knights?
I know that the frogs replaced most of the nobility after the conquest, but surely a few Anglo-Saxons houses were allowed to retain their title, right?

Cause when I look at the list of the Templar masters of the English branch of the order (pic related), all I see is French names...

it was also the only nation that didn't have to regularly defend against heathen raiders

spain had the moors, the germans and scandinavians had the baltics, the italians had the barbary pirates

also the first crusade was mainly composed of french with the only exception being the sicilian normans, so most of the orders founded in the kingdom of jerusalem were composed of french knights

Templars were present in Germany too

I'd call them englishmen if they were born here and lived here, but as to whether they were ethnically English (Anglo-Saxon), it's unlikely at first. 13th century may have been the first to see Anglo-Saxon knights though

>I'd call them englishmen if they were born here and lived here

But being born in a stable doesn't make one a horse
They were born in French-dominated England as part of a foreign cast, and didn't bother learning English for most of them

I'd have no issues regarding as Englishmen those born after absolute French domination faded (around the 1400s) regardless of their ethnic background since they lived as Englishmen

But those from the 11th/12th/13th century basically lived as if in a French exclave in England

there were templar orders set up in spain. you are utterly wrong. they just weren't as important as in the levant, but iirc the aragonese gave them a lot of power.

They had become accustomed to England fairly quickly however as within 50 years, Normans (in England) outside the royal court mainly spoke English with French as a second formal language.
I'd agree that the monarchs weren't really English until the Edwards, but lesser nobles and knights probably integrated pretty quickly.
Some knights like William Marshal however actually took pride in their new land and people.
I'm taking it from a national heritage point of view by taking normans born and raised in England as Englishmen of French descent. As an Englishman i wouldn't accept American pilgrim fathers or other English settlers as not being American as they are fundamental to US heritage even though many Americans aren't ethnically the same as them

>mfw that video in which Lindy praises the Hospitallers

If only the poor man knew how French they were....

>But being born in a stable doesn't make one a horse
>Insists on calling all those Georgian people French

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Saint_Thomas

>They had become accustomed to England fairly quickly however as within 50 years, Normans (in England) outside the royal court mainly spoke English with French as a second formal language.
Absolutly wrong
French remained the native and main language among Norman (and Angevin) nobles in England until the 1390s/1400s
Some of them did learn English as well, some didn't, but all of them spoke French as primary language
William Marshal and his sons spoke French btw

>Some knights like William Marshal however actually took pride in their new land and people.
In their new lands sure, but not in the English people (of which they weren't part of)

You'll notice that in the quote you posted (which was probably translated from French, Marshal's native language) he says "those who have come from France" and not "the French"
It was a feud between the French from England and those from France
You have to remember that in those era of feudalism, lands were more important than shared culture and language

To further prove my point, I'll have you notice that knights on both sides during the battle from which the quote you cited comes from, bore French names

It wasn't the French vs the English but the French of France vs the French of England

That image says the french speakers in England saw themselves English in their head as it was the land of their birth.
Furthermore the biography of William Marshal makes references to the enemy being French multiple times and how they must defend their land and their men.
I don't deny they spoke French, however I do deny that they didn't speak English.
William Marshal had quite a remarkable sense of honour and loyalty on the point of patriotism.
Also you must understand that french wasn't their primary language. It was like hiw monks used Latin. They all knew it, but used it for formal occasions.
Contemporary sources corroborate this along with common sense. The nobles were born lived and died in England so it only made sense to learn the language as well.
I don't deny they were of French extraction, although I do see them as part of an English history with greater ties to England hence I call them Englishmen in reference to nationality rather than ethnicity. In the same way a Dane is distinct from a Swede

>The French speakers of England were in their own heads 'Englishmen' because they lived in England

What did they mean by this?

I see this thread has already reverted to arguing about William Marshal. Did you faggot just find out about him this week or something.

The most fitting description of him would be Anglo-Norman, not fully English, not fully Norman but somewhere in the middle. But that would require some semblance of nuance so fuck that, only black and white exists right?

>That image says the french speakers in England saw themselves English in their head as it was the land of their birth.
By the late 14th century, yes, because of the HYW
Your pic says that as well
But Marshal lived in the 12th century, when Norman and Angevins nobles weren't assimilated yes

>Furthermore the biography of William Marshal makes references to the enemy being French multiple times and how they must defend their land and their men.
Once again you're confusing French and "from France"
Marshal and the other French nobles of England often fought the French of France
It wasn't an era of nationalism but of feudalism

>Also you must understand that french wasn't their primary language. It was like hiw monks used Latin. They all knew it, but used it for formal occasions.
Wrong
French was the main language of Norman nobles in England until the HYW
Most sources (including yours ad mine) state this

Better French born Englishman than French born Frenchman

I've been trying to point out he wasn't 100% English, but the other user insists that he was pure French living and ruling over England as a foreigner

>king and royal court keep speaking French (or "Anglo-Norman" like British historian like to call Norman-French to feel better) for centuries
>other Norman nobles immediatly switch to English tho

Sure thing senpai
I'm sure they were more interested in communicating with local peasants than with the king and his court...

It's just revisionist bong historians making this shitty unproven claim because, unlike for the kings and their court, there aren't many documents about non-court nobles of that era
Therefore it's easier to make up shit

How often is a Lord going to deal with the king versus his local peasants?

Unfortunately i can't accept this as a valid argument.
The post clearly notes how English was the main language of the non royals, not the only language. It's unlikely that most Norman knights conversed with the king more than the English yeomen
Furthermore I'm starting to see aggressive bias in your responses making it difficult to take you seriously now.

Why is this obvious German faggot so obsessed with trying to prove that "English" knights were "French"?

Lmao, the absolute state of Veeky Forums

If you look through the link, it does specifically say "French Knights" as the enemy.
And they do on multiple occasions refer to "our lands and our men"

He implies that the French ruling class of England, the one that refered to iself as French in the numerous English charters, saw itself as English.

"the fact that we have made the French hide away,

men who in the past were accustomed

to coming first in the tournament;

God is giving us good guidance."

>made the French hide away
Sounds about right

>all these retards thinking kingdom of France vassals = French
Seeing how the Islamic chronicles don’t even call them that it’s amazing brainlets get it wrong

As is retards like you who think that French = limited to the Kingdom of France were any better

The Norman and Angevin colonists in England were French (at least until they assimilated to English culture in the 1400s), and this have nothing to do with political borders

No

What do you mean by Templars, only The Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon or also the Teutonic order (which was suppoused to be subservient to the Templars). Do you also include the knights of Caltrava and Santiago, both independent organisations founded separately but based upon the idea of the Templars. The hospitalers, the knights of Saint John although the specific John changes halfway through
The very first Templars were the remnants of the crusaders of The First Crusade, knights or squires who had not been enfoeefed lands for their service so asked if they could set up a monastery within the kingdom of Jerusalem, we think this was about 5 or so. As First Crusaders they would be a mix of Sicilo-Norman, Anglo-Norman, and the minorities of the kingdom of France (quite a few Aquitanians and Provencal) [although there were few English that joined to the first host, English and Portuguese supplies of wood is what enabled Jerusalem to be besieged, and with this would have come a few knights]
As time went on the mixture would have shifted to more northern French, whilst English and Italians would still join. The Germanics would join the Teutonic Knights, although first based in Hungary not Poland to combat the pagans oddity enough. Whilst the Spanish and Portuguese would be joining the knights of Caltrava, santiago to continue the Reconquista, there were quite a few Portuguese serving in the Templars and Henry the Navigator is honoured as the Last Templar, much like how some Americans are given the honorific ‘Last Roman’

>Norman colonists
Yes because William of Normandy declared England to be a French rather than Papal fief afterall

Yes
If a bunch of Italians colonized some backwater island in the Pacific and after 100 years decided they no longer were part of the Italian state but kept living like Italians and speaking Italians, they would still be a bunch of Italians, regardless of their ties with the Italian state

>Teutonics
>subservient to the Templars
What? They answered only to the Pope. They were created after the Third Crusade specifically because Hospitallers and Templars didn't give a fuck about wounded/sick German crusaders. How they would even consider being subservient to Templars?

>As First Crusaders they would be a mix of Sicilo-Norman, Anglo-Norman

Actually, the first crusaders were mostly from France proper, as well as Norman Sicily and Flanders

The "Anglo-Normans" (aka French from England) were more of a thing in the Third Crusade

Guess that makes the USA English

The USA were still English indeed, until the massive waves of German and Irish immigration

But hey, at least you still have Canada....

That's not how it works.
I'm not going to claim another country and it's history as English heritage. That only applies to individuals born in England and lived in England

that would make the boers dutch, which they aren't

He's right though the early english nobility were french.

>early

Naive fellow

No they’d be Sicilian colonists, or Lombardo colonists
Italy is still very divided
Also the 13 colonies weren’t mutts, but modern day America is
Because they were founded by people who wanted to be Templars but in the north
>Anglo-Norman’s were French
Except they spoke Norman French rather than Parisian French which was the origin of French identity, and like I said some knights came with the wood supplies

NORMANS GET OFF MY ISLAND

Why were there so many French Knights in the Crusading Orders? Does France have a Knight-Surplus or something?

France was the most populous and strongest Western European nation back then

Too many French people.
Lo, a plague of frogs, as foretold by moses, is upon us!

kek

Frenchies cannot see a pair of legs and they'll get them, either from a girl or a frog

>tfw American of English and German descent
>tfw Amerimutt
How do I rectify this guys?

saxons on suicide watch

>tfw you're of british and portuguese ancestry

The chad union

But then...

Never 4get
QUE DEUS PUNA A PÉRFIDA ALBION

>be amerimutt
>irish + african
>skin tone is nice but that's the only plus
At least I'm a distant ancestor of the Brontë family..