So what's the deal with meat?

Meat is fucking bad for you. Saturated fat, trans fat, cholesterol, carcinogens from cooking, methianine, hormones. The list goes on and on.

Go vegan.

>inb4 vegan shill

Your body will thank you, you don't need as much protein as you think, 1g per 1lb of bodyweight is not necessary, you only need .7-.9 per kg of bodyweight. Furthermore, protein is still easy to acquire, and you'll be consuming much more fiber and nutrient dense foods. All the while you will feel better from not consuming that garbage. It's cheaper anyways, it helps the environment and saves animals.

>pic related, king of the jungle, is vegan

>can't eat pork and beef because of the fat
>can't eat chicken since it tastes like tough ass
>can't eat fish because I'll get mercury poisoning

Honestly, whether it's plain grilled or sautéed in white wine and butter, chicken is just ass.

>cholesterol
the world health organization also has come out with the information that dietary cholesterol has no effect on serum cholesterol.

true story lol

veganism can be crazy healthy though and you should all consider going vegan if you want to.

Scientists have linked living a long life to getting cancer.

The king of the jungle has myostatin inhibitors, that's why they are so jacked

Meat-free and dairy-free here.
Never felt better to be honest, and feel even better because it's all totally selfless in helping the environment in which our very lives are dependent on (reduction of methane, reduction in CO2 in transport, better respect for nature as a whole, better health and less health issues means money can be spent elsewhere in healthcare, etc.).

Humans have always eaten meat. It's not bad for you. Just make sure you eat your fruits and veggies too. A balanced diet is what's important

>tfw went vegan for 2 yrs and now have gerd and stomach ulcer
fuck this life
doctor made me eat boiled chicken and turkey again.

I'm this guy Ever since I went vegan, I lost weight, fixed my irritable bowel syndrome, and overall just feel better and have more energy.

>gerd
>stomach ulcer

What does that have to do with being vegan? Were you eating enough vegetables and fruits or were you surviving off of oreos and potato chips? As long as you're getting vitamin B12 and eating sensibly, then you'll be fine. This has nothing to do with veganism.

all i ate was spaghetti squash, pasta, broccoli, kale, rice, pineapple and beans
turns out my stomach can't handle that shit.

Sounds like you didn't have enough variety. Where's your fat sources? Although low-fat vegan diets are great for weight, one doesn't have to eat a low fat vegan diet. Yeah you're eating fruits and vegetables but why not more? Apples, Bananas, Mangos, Spinach, Breads, Nut Butters, Avocados, Tofu and more. I mean that sucks, but I've just never heard of anyone getting stomach ulcers from that. Do you smoke or drink?

>Do you smoke or drink?
nope straight edge

>Apples, Bananas, Mangos, Spinach, Breads, Nut Butters, Avocados, Tofu and more
i would eat those occasionally
but its too late for me sadly. now i have to pray i can get off these shitty ppi's
can only finish one meal a day.
tried to eat tofu last week and i vomited it out 20mins later.

I'm allergic to most vegan protein sources so I'm good thanks.

Basically this.

Chicken and fish are top tier

shit like the ground up garbage hotdogs and shit are useless

You're allergic to beans? Tofu? All grains? Lentils? Soy?

God damn, I'm sorry user, I hope you feel better

Anyone claiming eating meat is good for you in this thread has never studied nutrition. The optimal diet is a plant-based, whole food, vegan diet. If you think otherwise you are objectively wrong and ignorant of the facts. This has nothing to do with protecting animals, nor the environment. Rather it is just based solely on health.

nah not veganism fault tbqh. i had a bad habit putting tomato/pasta sauce on everything
just hate i have to go back eating meat to survive :(

This x1000

And this is why you're a selfish cunt because you don't care about what impact your diet has on, not only the animals themselves, but humanity and the planet as a whole.

Selfish bastard.

> inb4 "found the vegan"

Just have a balanced diet with meats, greens, fruits, etc. Make sure you're not eating too much of anything and that you're hitting your macro-nutrient+micro-nutrient requirements. Get your blood work checked regularly. Any kind of fear-mongering bullshit we hear from dieters who swear only by certain food groups comes out as high-functioning autism to us in the health/science fields.

>vegan
>optimal diet
>literally the only 'diet plan' that will kill your fucking babies

literally everything in your physiology is telling you that you're an evolutionary dead-end trying to eat vegan shit.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27137830
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19748244
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=vegan breastfeeding

if you don't supplement while breastfeeding as a vegan, your baby will die.

fucktard

youre like one of those people who goes to a pipeline protest but drives to get there. laboratory meat isn't a thing yet you goof

where can i buy these
why isn't whey powder fortified with them

pretty much every vegan is supplementing d3, b12, and omega 3. nothing surprising there. vegans (with brains) know they have to supplement those things.

doesn't change the fact that it's obviously not 'optimal' 'whole-food' and 'natural', dumbass.

>my super healthy diet requires supplementation with outside sources in order to be viable and I don't see anything wrong with this...

unironically this

veganism and GOMAD/see-food dieting are just two sides of the same coin - completely unbalanced diets

> muh animals
> muh environment
(you)

Or you could just include a little lean meat...

meat increases estrogen

Oh no, supplement B12.

On the flip side you consume animal products to get B12 while consuming saturated and trans fats, cholesterol and hormones and garbage. Yeah, or I could just supplement ONE vitamin and be fine.

I'll take the supplement.

As opposed to meat substitutes? You're a fucking idiot.

You don't need to consume meat substitutes, you can be nutritionally thriving on grains, fruits, vegetables and legumes.

Is that why vegans who are given creatine often see a drastic increase in mental capability (more alert, better focus, etc.) whereas people who eat meat rarely exhibit a noticeable increase?

Your diet starts to fall apart once you actually read studies, not just what biased websites put out. For example, the *only* viable source of B12 in a vegan diet is from purple nori leaves. Those fucking algae and shit you eat? It's psuedovitamin B12 and zero percent of it is bioavailable in humans. The B12 in nori leaves is destroyed when it's freeze dried which is why the areas it is locally found (Japan) also happens to be one of the few areas where 90+ percent of vegans aren't suffering from B12 deficiency.

So yeah, the vegan diet is optimal for things like blood pressure, cholesterol, all that shit *maybe* but continuously falls short when it comes to brain health. If your diet requires you to pop supplements for B12 to keep your brain running properaly or take big doses of beta-alanine so you can poorly synthesize carnosine then it's not a very optimal diet.

Is it a bad diet? Probably not. But when people sit there and say it's the bees knees best diet out there (especially when lacto-ovo vegetarian diets typically perform the best compared to all others in studies) with a big fucking asterisk leading to a footnote with tiny text saying *but you gotta supplement for really important shit plants don't give you or else your brain will deteriorate and you won't notice until it's too late because high intake of other vitamins often conceals B12 deficiency* then nigga, it ain't the best.

Underrated

>Go vegan

A pretty garbage idea. You can't eat eggs if you're a gay little vegan.

You seem to not understand that vegans can easily supplement B12. Sorry m8, you're an idiot.

Oh and what about that little tidbit regarding the difference between iron and heme-iron. Heme-iron only comes from animal sources, is more available and increases the availability of normal iron. If you're not getting heme-iron, you gotta intake a fuckton more regular iron just to break even. Hence why many vegans who supplement with iron still end up iron deficient. Probably because all the seeds you eat contain phytic acid which will block the absorption of iron unless there's heme-iron around to help push it through.

Once again, sure, you can work around it, but nigga if you gotta work around shit then it ain't the best fucking diet for everyone gawt dayum how hard is that for faggots like you to understand. Money is a driving factor behind most diet and not only are *vegan* foods often more expensive because muh non-GMO special snowflake gently massaged tomatoes and whatever, but not every has the dosh or even just general willingness to fund the requirement of popping 40 fucking capsules of different shit every day.

So I like to go to this local vegan spot, not because I'm a vegan but because I like a few of the dishes there. I am, consistently, the only dude in that restaurant who doesn't look like he came straight from internment at Auschwitz.

Saturated fats in moderation are good for you, and cholesterol is the precursor to every naturally occurring steroid hormone. Your diet is literally turning you into a low test beta.

I'll skip the supplement an stick to the meat.

wrong post link

>falling for the saturated fat and cholesterol increase testosterone meme

You seem to not understand that my point is you can't call a diet "optimal" when it requires supplementation. Also, most *vegan* B12 supplements draw it from sources with extremely low to no bio-availability. Basically nigga, if it ain't coming from something derived from purple nori leaves, it's either derived from animal products or your ass ain't absorbing shit. Hence the 93% of vegans being B12 deficient oh lawd I wonder why that number is so big when it's soooooo easy to supplement.

I have a dipshit vegan in my division who chomps on algea that says like 1200mg of B12 per serving on the package. Does that mean he's getting 1200mg of B12? Nah nigga, he getting 0mg because his body can't use that form of it. You can "fortify" fucking soy or whatever with all the yeast B12 bullshit or whatever you want, but that don't mean you're getting jack fucking shit out of it.

How true are the environmental claims vegans make?
Fuck animals there's pain and suffering in the world constantly. Animal suffering is way down the chain of important things

>humans have been eating meat for thousands of years
>'its bad for you'
Do you also believe breathing oxygen is bad for you?

> the world health organization says that a few things are potentially cancerous now.

Your posts are cancerous but I still frequent this board, you could say I'm a risk taker

>claims vegans make?
Are by default biased and wrong.

If you want to go around not eating animals thats fine, but there is no benefit to doing it.

Thats as far as the vegan discussion goes.

>but if you breathe pure compressed oxygen below a depth of 20m it will kill you!
>don't breathe oxygen at all!
>basically vegan logic

Animals still die, it's just that day they turn a blind eye to those that die due to massive farming needs.

> Eats small insects
> Eats several kg's of shit a day

> Just go vegan lmao, gorillas do it and they're jacked amiright?

This is why nobody believes what vegans say.

Appeal to tradition fallacy, with false equivalency fallacy.

Just because it's been done for a long time doesn't make it good. Secondly, you NEED oxygen to survive, you don't need meat to survive.

Diet is not a fucking tradition you utter moron. Fuck off back to with your unsubstantiated bullshit.

I mean no

worldwildlife.org/stories/7-gorilla-facts-you-should-know

"Mostly bamboo shoots, stems and fruit"

Okay, then it's an appeal to nature fallacy! Either way it's wrong, just because something is "natural" does not make it good. Following that logic, poison ivy is natural, natural things are good, therefore I should cover my dick in poison ivy. See how that doesn't work?

So you're saying that instead of you eating the healthiest diet possible and supplement what "gaps" exists, you'd rather eat meat which you admitted is not good for you. It's about eating the healthiest possible "nigga". You just make claims of vegans being vitamin deficient, yet even if that is so, that's not the rule of veganism. There are plenty of vegans who get all the vitamins needed and are much healthier because of their diet choices. Sorry senpai your logic does not make much sense.

>How true are the environmental claims vegans make?
Meat is higher impact than cereal grains and local, in season vegetables, but generally lower impact than fresh out of season fruits and vegetables that are imported from another hemisphere.

There's a reason why vegetarian cultures only ever developed around the equator.

Breathing oxygen is actually bad for you, too much oxygen produces free radicals which can give you cancer.

>the longest living people in the world live in the Mediterranean and Japan
>they have heavy meat diets, but also supplement it with activity every day even into their extreme old age, as well as a healthy selection of fruits and veg

So lets /thread this once and for all

Being healthy =/= eating right. Being healthy = healthy lifestyle.

nigger the optimal diet is fish nuts seeds veggies and fruits based but the sea its too contaminated thanks to us

I'll take myostatin in humans for 300, Alex.

Remove the thing that tells us to stop building muscle and you can build muscle on damn near anything, hence primates. Kinda like how you can inject a cow that eats nothing but grass with trenbolone and it'll turn into a giganigga cow because that shit is like 15x more powerful than testosterone in both strength and binding ability and outright overrides basic bodily processes.

On a high enough dose of tren, a human being can probably build fucking muscle while doing nothing but drinking water. His body will destroy it's own other tissues and perform insanely inefficient synthesis processes just to do it. Andreas Munzer kinda had experience with that phenomenon.

>free radicals which can give you cancer.
This was proven horseshit ages ago.

Ironically the scientist who argued free radicals kill you literally died of cancer even though he did nothing but reduce his free radical intake.

>vegan nigger
Yeah right, pull the pther one m8.

>strawman and fallacy
Well fucking done you went full circle in your idiocy. No more replies for you.

How is that a strawman? I just refuted the claim. You said humans have been eating meat for thousands of years, right? I first said appeal to tradition, you replied it wasn't tradition, so I honored that and changed to appeal to nature, which it is. I just showed you the logical inconsistency in your statement and provided the poison ivy example to show you what that logic looks like. You don't even see the argument.

I reject the idea that a diet that contains capsules of synthetic vitamins instead of whole foods sources of those vitamins is really going to be healthier than a diet that contains those whole foods sources.

I'm utterly uninterested in eating for longevity though, all 4 of my grandparents and 7 of my 8 great grandparents lived past 90, and most of them had unhealthy habits that I've avoided (all of them smoked for at least 50 years, for instance). Eating should be for health and performance now, longevity is 80% genetic, you're not going to eat yourself into your 90s if you don't have the genes for it.

Please point out where I said meat is not good for you. I said your diet is better *maybe* as in I didn't feel like going through the whole, "My biased vegan study is better than your biased secretly funded by the meat industry study," ordeal. Damn dude, I was simply giving you benefit of the doubt to push a different point and you acted like I was conceding. That B12 deficiency is hitting you hard as fuck.

You keep saying it's easy to supplement this and that but as I've pointed out, studies have proven otherwise. If it's so easy to supplement, why are 93 percent of vegans deficient in B12? Why do vegans have 50 percent (or lower) the amount of carnosine in their muscles than non-vegans?

Synthetics are used in meats all the time. Even in "organic" or "grass-fed" meats, so again your logic is flawed. Good for your grandparents, but if you think longevity is 80% genetic, you're seriously wrong. You constantly keep pulling these statistics out of your ass that are false. Eat all the meat you want man, but there is a reason why meat consumption has high correlations with all cause mortality and other chronic conditions. Nothing personnel kid.

> Mostly

If I eat mostly veges and fruits all day and have a piece of chocolate at the end of the day am I vegan?

if you eat it out of your boyfriend's ass, then yes

>that gif
>that argument

>gag
>>>reddit

also

found the hysterical faggot vegan

Pretty close to it. If the chocolate is over 70% dark then pretty much, you're a vegan.

Hey, cool, it's a vegan fight again. Awesome. Such a great way to spend time.

diet autist, diet autist on the board, what is the fairest diet of all

> Missing the point this hard

Probably the lack of B12 in your brain

I didn't realize you were trying to make that point, but you have a large lack of understanding of what is vegan, that you don't know that some chocolate is vegan! Really dark chocolate is vegan and is good for you! Sooooooo yeah you can still be vegan and eat chocolate.

But now I see the point you were trying to make. They're mostly vegetarian animals, yes.

>Be given finite amount of time on Earth
>Youth and good health even more limited
>Time is extremely precious and irreplaceable
>mfw people spend it on jap imageboard arguing with strangers about what they choose to eat and convert into shit

>Saturated fats in moderation are good for you,

No evidence of this

>and cholesterol is the precursor to every naturally occurring steroid hormone

Says nothing about the amount of cholesterol needed for hormone synthesis, and it's produced naturally by your body even if you consume 0 saturated fat or cholesterol

>I reject the idea that a diet that contains capsules of synthetic vitamins instead of whole foods sources of those vitamins is really going to be healthier than a diet that contains those whole foods sources.

Is there any known health risks associated with B12 supplements? There are many known health risks associated with meat, especially red meat.

all of those "studies" are cohort studies comparing vegan to SAD .

It's also heavily influenced by years of baseless claims about cholesterol and saturated fat being unhealthy, people who tend to be health conscious will avoid red meat because the Tv told them they are bad and they'll do a lot of other good things for their body like sports and avoiding heavy processed shit , people who don't care about health will not do any kind of physical activity and keep eating everything and anything .

>reduction in CO2 in transport
Only on smaller scales. If everyone went vegan, we'd wind up seeing increases in CO2 emissions since people would then be consuming far greater volumes of food to meet optimal nutritional needs.

>better respect for nature as a whole
Patently wrong if you're on a nutritionally optimal vegan diet. Pesticide and fertilizer use has fucked ecological areas by impacting both flora and fauna, as well as introducing chemical runoff into moving and ground water systems
>inb4 muh organic
Marketing term. The organic label does not certify that products were grown without the use of pesticides or fertilizers

Yes. Chicken has way less saturated fats and it doesn't have the sugar in the tissue that causes an inflammatory response like red meat does.

There is not really any solid evidence that poultry and fish only diets increase cancer risk.

>The problem with red meat is the sugar it contain

>Better go full grain and fruits :-DDDD

>all of those "studies" are cohort studies comparing vegan to SAD .

Not at all true.

>It's also heavily influenced by years of baseless claims about cholesterol and saturated fat being unhealthy, people who tend to be health conscious will avoid red meat because the Tv told them they are bad and they'll do a lot of other good things for their body like sports and avoiding heavy processed shit ,

Already accounted for in studies, and obviously they're not baseless claims.

It's the type of sugar that's the problem.

pnas.org/content/112/2/542.abstract
ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/publish/news/newsroom/11551

>Neu5Gc is naturally found on cell surfaces in most mammals but not in humans. It gets incorporated into human cells by eating meats, organs and some dairy products.
>Previous studies have shown when Neu5Gc is incorporated into human tissues, the immune system recognizes it as a foreign threat, producing antibodies to counter it. Repeated consumption of these meats then causes chronic inflammation, which has been known to increase risks of tumor formation. Neu5Gc has been linked to cancer as well as cardiovascular and other inflammatory diseases, including some bacterial infections.

the parts of the planet that aren't ruled by my people can suck my cock.

why would a human need vitamin b12 tho? it is found in animal products, which humans are not meant to eat, so humans clearly don't need b12. you should really try to distance yourself from the wolves in sheeps clothing that are trying to destroy pure vegan philosophy, seriously the only vegan source of b12 is in 'fortified' foods.

ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/

Vitamin B12 is naturally found in animal products, including fish, meat, poultry, eggs, milk, and milk products. Vitamin B12 is generally not present in plant foods

cut out the b12, it is not natural for humans to eat, it is a scam perpetrated by 'big meat'

i have a definitive response for this

i did some research after a year ago sharing that red meat caused increased cancer rates in the colon. it was friggin' everywhere at the time but i wanted to get to the full truth of this.

so i did some MEDICALLY VALID research instead of the bullshit people look up, like the PUBLIC MEDICAL LIBRARY and this is the conclusions i found in there:

-red meat does not cause cancer
-red meat eaters were more likely to eat meats that have been laced with nitrates for conservation (sausage) or bbq (also cancerous like the nitrates)
- red meat eaters do other things more often like smoking and drinking and eating bbq

in short, in the target group that ate red meat, but didnt eat conserved meats or bbq, had no increased cancer rates

tldr; red meat doesnt cause cancer, nitrates and bbq do

What about risks of diabetes with red meats and poultry?

I've seen some reasearch like these pubmed articles saying they increase your chances of beetus
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3942738/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2628696/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3173026/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2671114/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23779232