Historically speaking, how do you defeat the Mongols?

Organized military training
Their weapon of choice was bow and arrow on horseback
A testudo with pikes would stop them in their tracks

Walls, fortifications, masterful use of terrain, and your own horsenigs.

castles

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary#Military_reforms

Get troops. Get a LOT of troops. Get so many troops you make a new class in society composed of these troops. Subsidize the richest of these troops in their efforts to build stone castles on your land.

Also don't be on grassland.

>Don´t go to the steps if you don´t have a gun
>Build stone castles
>Preferably on uneven regions or forests
>Make them besiege each city/castle you have for years
>They will have so many losses that it will be impossible for them to conquer you

Go innawood or live on an island
Otherwise hide out in your castle until they get bored of pillaging and leave

large quantities of heavy armoured knights, just like the Hungarians did during the second invasion, and it worked.

>B-b-but

Nope, the first time around they mostly had light cav and only a handful of knights, who still managed to perform quite well.

Ambush, encyrclement, tacting terrain (mountains, see) look Alexander, forts, better technology

Wait for their empire to collapse due to a succession dispute

narrow terrain, disciplined pikes, and archers. horse archers have a harder time aiming over their infantry counterparts, and as jalal ad-din showed, that can really fuck up the mongols if they cant use the terrain to offset that disadvantage.

call for saviours of europe of course

god damnit poland that's 3 seperate ocasions where you save europe.

bravo

Would the mongols under Genghis Khan stand a chance against the Roman Empire?

starve them until they eat their horses

>would they do a lot of damage, raid and generally be annoying shits?
yes
>would they defeat romans in open field
yes
>would they be able to conquer rome
no

lol no. they'd circle around you and pillage everything around your army

meany for this

You're missing a bit there

I love it

Just either live in jungles, permafrost, surrounded by water, deserts, or covered in human feces.

>Hungary
Mongols were stopped in Croatia

>mongols have a 1000 year technological advantage

Seems fair.

This the chinese have been fighting steppnig for as long as both have been a thing.

Pay other steppe nomads to fight against them.

Be Europe.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary

>What is Vietnam
>What is Japan
>What is the Mamluks

Mughuls conquered India and essentially were Mongols.

>It Ain't Me starts playing

Wreck your own shit so there's nothing for them t wreck when they get there. Nobody's gonna rob you if you own nothing worth stealing.

>and essentially were Mongols.

>stable and strongest european civilization
vs
>rag tag group of nomadic goat herders

If they go full asymmetrical, you can't defend against them.
So you attack. Their supply train, their conquered cities? All targets for your army.
You leave them isolated behind your army, which is still bad, but that's life against fast guerrillas.

Isn't that what inevitably destroyed the Roman empire irl?

Sorta. The Xiongnu were driven off by the Chinese and parts migrated west. In the west, they fucked around with native tribes and some of them were forced south/west (Rome).

Ultimately blame China.

>In 1254, Batu Khan demanded a marriage alliance with Hungary and a quarter of its army for a drive into central and western Europe. In exchange, Hungary would be spared from tribute obligations and any further destruction.

That actually sounds like a pretty good deal, I'd have taken it

Trees.

>t. Batu
Nobody here will fall for your tricks.

...

deny them human power
their strength was in drafting defeated people to fight for them

>I don't read things because I'm 12 and have no attention span
>I am mentally retarded
>Turko-Afghans and Mongols are the same
thing

>Come back to the steps brothers
Pretty based of Hungary to refuse that desu

If you want to beat the Mongols strategically, you need to be geographically cut off from them like the Japanese and Malaysians who had oceans between them and the Mongols. Alternatively, be like the Vietnamese and have jungles and mountains in your country which rob invading Mongols of their maneuverability. In the case of the Hungarians and Poles, get lucky and have time to learn from your earlier defeats against them and try a better strategy next time around(heavy cavalry and fortresses). As for Egypt, get lucky and face a small Mongol army with a lot of non-Mongols in the ranks, and have a numerical advantage.

If you don't luck into these scenarios, you'll have to beat them on the battlefield. For tactical victories, the Persians managed to beat a Mongol army by drawing them into a mountain pass where their maneuverability was negated. That's one tactic that worked out well for them at least in that engagement. If you don't have any geographical tools to make use of, let them conquer you and then drive them out once you build a gunpowder army centuries later.

hahahaha

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mongol_invasion_of_Hungary#Military_reforms

Knights
Crossbowmen
Castles

Black plague

Trees. The reality is steppe people really aren't designed for fighting in heavily wooded areas.

Have a body of water separating you that doesn't freeze in the winter.

but they'd just pul the hit and run tactics and shower your army with arrows.
see.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Carrhae

Jungles

Be an island or a jungle or both(Java)

what supply train

Live in an island. Mongol's navy is pretty crappy seeing how Japan and Indonesia btfo them

And in Mongol case where the would resupply? It literally proves his point.

>ITT, historylets who think that the mongols are all horse archers with no auxiliaries or siege equipment

Machine guns

only reason the mongols didn't invade japan is because they got hit by a hurricane... twice.

Japan got extraordinarily lucky. I believe that some Mongolian expeditionary force landed and thoroughly peppered the samurai

Lure them into forests and swamps.

...

This kills the Mongol

based belarus

What about just a loose line of heavily-armored and shielded spearmen and putting archers with longbows and crossbows behind/between them?

pick up big rock
SMAAAAAAAAASH
Mongol DEAD

this.

By fortifying every hamlet and having less cities

>you can’t stop an empire
Literally ambush

>tetsudo with piles
>heavy shield, heavy armour and heavy pike
>lasting a full battle
Wew lad

>Poland and Hungary are the saviours of Europe
>constantly bitter with the Teutonic order rather than remove the Lithuanians together
Wew lad

Literally just have internal stability, China fell because it broke again, Mesopotamia and Iran is always a hodgepodge waiting to break
Hungary and Poland resisted because the realm didn’t break about

We. Have. To. Build. A. Wall.

...

Because mongol tactics relied on lots of bow cav whittling the enemy down, and then a decesisive heavy cav charge which broke their enemies

Mongol lancers are somehow often forgotten from history

Japan didn’t get lucky besides being an island, being a sea apart fucks your supply lines even more than Mongolians conquering that far away did

"Friendship". Worked for the Byzantines.

>ITT Brainlets who think mongols didn’t adapt their tactics massively over the years, especially considering how long the mongols existed for

>Iran is always a hodgepodge waiting to break
>lose 1/3 of your population
>j..just maintain stability in your realm!
brainlet post

Iran IS a hodgepotch waiting to break apart though, they're tied with Japan for geography most prone to fragmentation because the mountanous terrain is conductive for self sufficient small realms

Batu was a shithead. Subutai constantly had to save his dumb arse and Batu in turn rode on Subutais succes.
>Hey gus look, I beat hungary!
>Great Subutai, I meanm Batu!!!!

Holy fuck... What are the odds?

This luck is beyond comprehension

>can't place that there m' lord

Heavy cavalry, pikes, and guns work pretty well.

Japan has an entire sea for defence.
Vietnam and south east asia is too humid and hot for horses, they die in droves from disease and exhaustion.
Mamluks, why would you want to bother with the middle east and all that desert when you could go sack greece and europe instead?

Japan lost most of its battles with the Mongols, they got very lucky with typhoons and the political and economic dynamics of raising such large fleets.

"If you fight your enemy, they win," was the thing to keep in mind against the Mongols.

If the Slavs are any indication, suicide charge with thousands of knights and push them back after taking 90% casualties

>shield 22lbs
>spear 12lbs
>not getting shot to death by gooks
Priceless

Mongol horsearchers would have a field day on those exposed legs. They were incredibly good shots from horseback and could easily harass a formation like that. It’s not much different from what the Chinese did and the mongols figured it out all the same. Only way to beat them is heavier cavalry .

Be the Delhi Sultanate

it really did a number on the nip self esteem. they didn't call it kamikaze pilots for nothing

What are the "specs" of a horse exactly?

Horses can only gallop for 3 miles in races and there were stops every 10 to 15 miles on the pony express to change horses. This gives us some impression of the speed of civilian horse unfettered by raids, exhaustion, lack of supplies, broken bridges, landslides, disease etcetera... To achieve the fastest march without changing horses and in rough terrain they would have to go a lot slower, even slower without aforementioned prrrroblems.

Stonewall Jackson's "foot cavalry" pegged 30+ miles. I wouldn't go as far as saying infantry is faster, generally speaking, it is feasible for an infantry based army could catch up to cavalry instead of being continuously peppered with arrows for eternity as some imagine.

Mongol horses were stout and bred for endurance, unlike the heavy horses of Europe or the swift sprinters of Arabia. These horses would need to gallop about the battlefield and be prepared to gallop away in case the enemy sends forward their own, albeit less numerous, cavalry.

At Mohi they were fortunate, the impetuous European knights charged early in the day and they did not run into any choke points. The enemy infantry did not march at a rapid pace behind their betters. Importantly the infantry did not know how to deal with such an army. Had they been properly instructed they might have had more faith in their crossbows which could inflict losses on the Mongols, the infantry, though terrified, would have known their best bet is to dig in and shoot until dusk. The Mongols were there to obtain quick victories and return home with their loot, not die defending their home or achieve permanent territorial conquest, they may have withdrawn having failed to instigate a rout.

in terms of crossbow tactics against mongols, what would have been more effective, having the front line use shields to protect from mongol arrow fire or instead ditch them to allow a higher density of crossbow fire?