I've been trying to redpill myself on the Julio-Claudians, Veeky Forums, and this is what I've concluded thus far...
>Augustus A hardworking guy that lucked out and ultimately won it all, but gets too much credit for bringing peace when he was only delaying the inevitable confrontation that would end the principate. >Tiberius Stannis-tier autism, probably wanted to bring the Republic back as Sulla did but was so bad at interactign with people and found himself dealing with such a spineless bunch of senators that he ultimately tapped out of the game and left them to their own devices. >Caligula A traumatized kid who wanted to live up to his papa and found himself fucked over by everyone from his uncle to his allies and, ultimately, his own family. Found himself so disgusted by the treatment he received that he ended up treating everyone with a high-handed cynicism that made him despised beyond measure. >Cladius An absolute cuck that never stood up for himself, and though he'd somehow end up living the high life if he treated the Senate better, only to find himself removed like the beta that he was. >Nero A visionary and quite possibly the greatest emperor of all time. Under his guidance, Rome could've become the unparalleled zenith of civilization. Like Caligula, everyone tried to undermine him, especially the bitch mother that was jealous of his genius and his cock. Quite possibly the most unjustly treated and misunderstood person in all of history.
Carson Price
Don't bully Claudius.
David Richardson
kys. Caligula and Nero were selfish, spoiled, and narrowminded and couldnt see the consequences of their actions beyond the immediate effects.
Levi Lee
...
Jace Stewart
>Tiberius >Stannis-tier autism He just didn't want to be emperor. >found himself dealing with such a spineless bunch of senators that he ultimately tapped out of the game and left them to their own devices. Yeah that's was because he, Augustus, Marcus Antonius and arguable Sulla and Marius killed the vast majority of the "old guard" and replaced them with yesmen.
>Cladius >never stood up for himself The faggot made the justice system a joke by inserting his own emotions and whims into every court decision he took part in.
>Nero >Praised by people on Veeky Forums Why am I not surprised. He is what happens if you give one of us imperial power.
Liam White
t. nero
though i have heard that he had many plans to "redecorate" Rome
Daniel Jackson
I like Caligula the most, he systematically tortured everyone who wronged him after his fever.
Cameron Johnson
>Augustus: Considered one of the greatest emperors.
>Tiberius: Never wanted to a emperor. Probably was suffering from depression.He was forced to divorce his wife, whom he loved, to marry a slut.
>At Augustus’ request in 11 BC, Tiberius divorced Vipsania and married Julia the Elder, Augustus' daughter and Agrippa's widow.Tiberius was very reluctant to do this, as Julia had made advances to him when she was married and Tiberius was happily married. His new marriage with Julia was happy at first, but turned sour.
>Reportedly, Tiberius once ran into Vipsania again, and proceeded to follow her home crying and begging forgiveness; soon afterwards, Tiberius met with Augustus, and steps were taken to ensure that Tiberius and Vipsania would never meet again.
Tiberius was still a decent emperor, and Rome was mostly stable under his rule.
>Caligula: Probably mentally ill. He had a terrible childhood. His entire family was murdered.
>Claudius: Disabled, but still his reign was respectable.
>Nero: He was only 17 when he became emperor, and was more interested in singing, partying and sex than ruling the empire.
Jaxon Thomas
>>Claudius: >Disabled, but still his reign was respectable.
>>Cladius >>never stood up for himself >The faggot made the justice system a joke by inserting his own emotions and whims into every court decision he took part in.
>>Cladius >An absolute cuck that never stood up for himself, and though he'd somehow end up living the high life if he treated the Senate better, only to find himself removed like the beta that he was.
Of the Julio-Claudians only two had legitimate truimphs. Only one conquered Britain. He survived the purges of his uncle and nephew and ruled well for several years. Too easily influenced by women, yes, but still a respectable emperor.
Jeremiah Gomez
>Probably mentally ill [citation needed] Aloys Winterling and others have done a phenomenal job showing how the sources try to deceive time and time again regarding Caligula. He was by no means "mentally ill," unless you consider the capacity to do harm itself a mental illness, in which case I would conclude that you're retarded. >nero >and was more interested in singing, partying and sex than ruling the empire. Oh, really? Is that so he put so much effort into trying to radically changing Rome and making it the greatest place on earth? He didn't have a military bone in his body, probably, but that's a very narrow-minded standard by which to belittle him when history has so many examples of sons of warrior kings that helped coalesce things culturally and not militarily. The problem was that Nero wanted to do all of this while the political situation was unstable as fuck, and ended up paying the price for his tunnel vision. Had Nero been born to the Flavians, or been in the shoes of Commodus, I'd argue he would've lived a long life and probably be remembered as one of Rome's visionaries.
Carter Martin
>A visionary and quite possibly the greatest emperor of all time. >blame all the shit that happens on Christians >end up burning thousands of them just because it's your birthday lol >start singing from the rooftop while half of Rome is on fire >be so incompetent that the senate turns their backs on him and orders his execution >he bitches out and kills himself unironically thinking he was a revolutionary Greatest visionary.
Joshua Kelly
Some of that is most likely an exaggeration of the sources, but it is funny he probably could have stayed Emporer if he hadn't killed himself so quickly. He had a strong support from east which almost always won in these sort of struggles.
Brandon Anderson
He was deceived into suicide, someone told him they were going to kill him and he chose self inflicted death. The senate had declared him enemy of the state but they were still pretty fond of him and didn’t want him to die. And as said, he had support in the east, Vespasian was a loyal guy with an army
Jose Morris
>blame all the shit that happens on Christians A good political strategy when Christians are a legitimate threat. >end up burning thousands of them just because it's your birthday lol Because Nero went out and singlehandedly burned thousands of Christians while the pious Roman people and the venerable senators looked away, right? Assuming that even happened. >start singing from the rooftop while half of Rome is on fire Literally never happened. >be so incompetent that the senate turns their backs on him and orders his execution The Senate turned its back on every princeps because they were a bunch of spineless twerps that only had their self-interest at heart, bowing before all of the emperors and claiming they were gods, while secretly wishing they could take their place. As an user said above, the culling of true republicans that had started with Marius and ended with Augustus put an end to any kind of respectable body as far the Senate goes. The only thing you should picture when viewing the Senate post-Caesar is a groveling and petty aristocrats that wanted nothing more to be emperor themselves no matter what they philosophically mused.
Anthony Campbell
>A good political strategy when Christians are a legitimate threat. Yes, I can imagine the thousands of Christians ousting the Roman emperor for reasons unknown.
Lucas Cooper
Uhm, they refused to acknowledge the emperor as a god publicly and no doubt went on proselytizing their beliefs, no matter how small their number. And this was before pre-Constantine, so they undoubtedly viewed anything to do with the state that had nothing to do with Christ as wrong. Not to mention that the idea of emperor as a living god, polytheism, and many roman values/norms etc., was all anathema to them. They were backwards and fundamentally against everything Rome stood for.
Hudson Morales
You've got to be trolling
Jack Jones
>implying they were wrong >implying they had the capacity to get rid of the emperor in the first place >implying they weren't good citizens who never revolted even though they kept getting the shit end of the stick Go worship a new "god" emperor every time the old one gets assassinated lmao
Colton Carter
Don’t forget, Christians gather in catacombs, eat flesh and drink blood. They are a danger to public safety
Jaxson Martinez
I am pretty sure the killing of Christians was almost completely irrelevant to Neros success and failures as an Emporer. It is very likely this is just played up in the sources because of the latter christianization of the Empire.
Charles Powell
A handful of Jewish heretics worshipping their dead god in a far away corner of the empire are hardly a threat to anyone. The religion was hardly a blip on the map at the time.
Nathan Ramirez
>eat flesh and drink blood You mean bread and wine? >danger to public safety hahahahaha
Anthony Cruz
>implying they were wrong They were, and objectively so. The Christian worldview is warped and miserable. >implying they had the capacity to get rid of the emperor in the first place They didn't have the numbers or the power, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have gotten them in time. If you knew there were ten guys out there kidnapping girls and torturing them to death you wouldn't say "Who cares?" just because they aren't even 1% of the population. They're morally abhorrent. >implying they weren't good citizens who never revolted even though they kept getting the shit end of the stick They didn't "revolt" as the Jews did because they had no land to begin with. There were plenty of Christians causing problems and showing modern-Muslim-tier behavior. Sure, but the point is that user is retarded. >hardly a blip on the map at the time Depends what you mean by threat. As I said above, even one guy is a threat if he goes against your cultural norms and actively spreads lies about you and the active government. You're viewing this purely based on numbers in a way that's entirely decontextualized. Uh, is being sarcastic, you mong.
John Jackson
>She was in her thirty-eighth year, a time of life when if she had behaved reasonably she would have been almost elderly; but she abused the indulgence of fortune no less than that of her father. Of course her love of literature and considerable culture, a thing easy to come by in that household, and also her kindness and gentleness and utter freedom from vindictiveness had won her immense popularity, and people who knew about her faults were amazed that she combined them with qualities so much their opposite. You'll never hang out with fun-loving, witty and kind party girl Julia and plow Augustus' pregnant daughter.
Austin Thompson
I'm sorry I can't tell the difference between an average brainlet on Veeky Forums to some dude being sarcastic.
Lincoln Allen
also you just sound like a bitter assburger, the Christian philosophy won get over it.
Michael Rogers
>assburger If you're implying I'm American, wrong. >the Christian philosophy won get over it Funny, considering there isn't even such a thing as Christian philosophy. There's Christian dogma, maybe, and the cultural norms that spawned from that. But Christian philosophy is only pagan philosophy injected with a new set of presuppositions. Christians are what held back philosophy for a thousand years, and if not for the autism of the Germanics, we'd probably still be seeped in stupid Christian dogmatism.
Lincoln Gomez
Yeah, I was right. You're bitter as fuck and you hold onto this warped view of history because you're sad and lonely and need an outlet, so you pick the easiest targets.
The Christians won, move on with your life.
Ryan White
You should think carefully before you post
Jackson Garcia
>You're bitter as fuck Wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm not bitter, I'm just stating the facts. If I were bitter I'd be advising that people go out and burn churches like Varg does. But I'm not that person. >warped view of history How exactly is it warped? What did I state that was wrong? Can you back up anything with actual facts? >The Christians won, move on with your life. I guess that's why they killed their own religion, ultimately lost out to the pagans in [current year] and left the Western world open to Jews and Muslims. Because we "won."
Wyatt Bailey
>implying this wasn’t built off pagan thought
We know for a fact the Christian god is not real, or least not in the way the Bible portrays him? We know for a fact he was Semitic god, one of many. Over time he became the lord of the pantheon. Jews converted the pantheon into a monotheistic faith after exposure to new religious ideas. These are all facts.
Levi Powell
>Wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm not bitter No, you're bitter. You don't need to advocate for burning down churches (which you probably do) to not be bitter. >How exactly is it warped? What did I state that was wrong? Can you back up anything with actual facts? Christianity has philosophies of its own developed throughout the centuries by many different theologians and scholars, naturally it takes influence from Stoicism and Platonism, but it builds up on it and delves into different fields. >I guess that's why they killed their own religion, ultimately lost out to the pagans in [current year] and left the Western world open to Jews and Muslims. Because we "won." Christianity died in the 1800s but still won out against the pagans. Modern western "Christianity" isn't Christianity, it's just another arm of political control. You should know this by now.
Christopher Hall
Dude Claudius was comparatively the best emperor from this Monarchist' point of view
John Cook
Claudius was a great underdog story. He was mocked by everyone for his disabilites. His own mothers considered him a monster. But he still managed to became an emperor, and kept Rome stable.
