Who was in Transylvania first. Hungarians or Romanians?

Who was in Transylvania first. Hungarians or Romanians?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Székelys
bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Мирчо_Стари
nec.ro/data/pdfs/publications/nec/2010-2011/MARIANA_GOINA.pdf)
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Read Gesta Hungarorom, a book written by a hungarian. It clearly says that vlachs were present in the Carpathian Basin upon their arrival.

Why did Romania/Wallachia not exist as a country until 1330? Hungary has existed as a nation since 896.

The Székely were there before both of them.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Székelys

Because vlachs were semi-nomadic shepherds . Thats why you find vlachs in Serbia, Greece, Albania, Poland ,Ukraine and Albania.Albeit the southern slopes of the Carpathian Mountains were always vlach, and thats where the romanian nation was founded.

Kek

Unironically the Turks masquerading as Bulgars

Dude wat

Bulgar Turks from Asia, remotely related to the Ottoman Turks who later conquered them

Dude, you cant possibly believe that a handful of bulgarians controlled a region that is 20% of Europe?And left zero traces behind? Also dont fucking dare claiming previous slavic influences from the slavic tribes that passed/lived in the region in the 7th century as bulgarian influence.

Eastern Europe belongs to Roman(ian)s, Slaves and Chinks must go back !

Neither, it was BLACK land

Hungarians are just local people that adopted the customs of a small minority of foreign invaders

>Bulgar Turks
Didn't I say you are on Mount Stupid already?

Cumans and Pechenegs. So, Romanians.

>the eastern and southern med are not rightful roman clay
get out

This is the most outrageous claim in the entire thread
TRI PIZDETA

>the bulgarian empire didnt exist

t. Dumbfuckshescu

What are vassals? Also there was a massive amount of bulgarians in transylvania(sedmigradsko) until they were expelled in the early 20th century

>Also there was a massive amount of bulgarians in transylvania(sedmigradsko) until they were expelled in the early 20th century

Don't really want to spoil the shit flinging fest, but those people settled there after the unsuccessful uprisings against the Ottomans in the 15th - 17th century.

Go read the history of Buda and Pesta when they were originally fortified and what was their function

>What are vassals?
You know best. You were turkish slaves for 700 years.
>bulgarian empire
Literally no one calls it that, faggot. It was the Bulgarian Tsardom.Also , you fail to present the bulgarian influences left by your "empire".Remember that slavs were in Transilvania 300 years before you arrived.Probably the only original bulgarian tradition is dog spinning.

No those are besarabian bulgarians. A massive amount of bulgars settled in modern day romanian lowlands and cities since the 8th century while vlachs were living in the mountain. The region only became romanian after bulgarian bolyars declared independence from the bulgarian kingdom. From then on vlach linguistic influence increased but it was slow. For example brasov was 40% bulgarian in the 16th century.

I live 40 km north of the bulgarian border and there are literally zero bulgarians in the entire county. also, since the founding of the city in the 1550 or so, there werent any fucking bulgarians .

whatever you say, my dude

>For example brasov was 40% bulgarian in the 16th century.
And the source is your ass, isn't it?

the Celts.

because you call yourselves Romanian, now.

half the transylvanians are crypto-hungarians too.

>literally zero bulgarians in the entire county
all assimilated or expelled.

You know best. You were turkish slaves for 700 years.
More like 500 years. Also rich coming from literal ottoman vassals. Doesnt disprove what I said

>iterally no one calls it that, faggot. It was the Bulgarian Tsardom
Except it was an empire and everyone calls it. Bulgaria from Kanasyubigi Krum to Tsar Petar rivaled the size of the Carolingian Empire.
During the early Bulgarian empire, wallachia was the center of of bulgar settlement and archeological evidence only shows slavic or bulgar artifacts.

Face it, until the 14th-15th century you were nothing more than roaming mountainniggers with no nation.

>Also , you fail to present the bulgarian influences left by your "empire".
The entire "romanian" nobility spoke exclusively Old Bulgarian until the 15th century. Mircho Stari(Mircea) was a pure Bulgarian bolyar.

The romanian language has massive amounts of Bulgarian words. The romanian cuisine is practically Bulgarian with some hungarian influence.

>Remember that slavs were in Transilvania 300 years before you arrived.
Slavs arrived in the 500s. Bulgars arrived around 730. Slavs were a majority in the Romanian lowlands and they mixed with the bulgars, forming the Bulgarian ethnicity. The vlachs had no role. The resulting Bulgarians were either assimilated or expelled later.

Keep in mind the majority of Bulgarians were assimilated by the hungarians in transylvania.

>it wasn't an empire it was an IMPERIVM
can't believe some people are this fucking autistic

>The entire "romanian" nobility spoke exclusively Old Bulgarian until the 15th century. Mircho Stari(Mircea) was a pure Bulgarian bolyar.
Top fucking kek. Are you fucking retarded?Dude, this is african tier WE WUZ.Also, nobody spoke bulgarian, you inbred turk.It was old slavonic, and we only used it to write church books. Thats why we had peasant revolts, because they didnt understood shit from the priests babblings.Also, we have writings from the 15th century, written in cyrillic, but with romanian words.Hiw do you explain that shit, nigger? Why did the "bulgarian" nobility used romanian words?
>bulgarian cuisine
Implying you turkic shits didnt steal everything from the slavs that lived here centuries before you even arrived in Europe.

Last year I visited Bucharest for a couple of days, and went to see the historical museum. About half of the epigraphic material was in Cyrillic. The other half was post-18th century.

We used a glagolithic cyrillic , wuth romanian words faggot.

>The vlachs had no role
Yet now they rule over a region that was bulgarian , in your opinion. HOW do you explain this shit?

The text in the picture above goes "Paбъ Бoжию жyпaнъ..", meaning "God's servant the zupan..". I also want you to think hard on where exactly Old Church Slavonic came from.

>glagolithic cyrillic
You know so little of what you are talking about you have no idea how retarded you sound.

He's right, actually.
Go read:
Limba documentelor slavo-române emise în Tara Româneasca în sec: XIV si XV

Stop with the retarded autism
The vast majority of all inhabitants of every country remained the same through the ages
The bulgars/magyars/romans/whatever were just a small minority that took over the leadership positions and influenced the culture greatly, not the genes.
Alse nobles tended not to speak the same language as the common folk.
Roman patricians for example spoke greek

Dude, romanian cyrillic was using cyrillic,some old glagolithic moon runes and latin letters.

Pula mea, asta nu inseamna ca javrele de bulgari au stapanit Tara Romaneasca sau ca noi suntem bulgari.

>old glagolithic moon runes

You mean characters from an alphabet, invented in 855, which barely had any influence, because the Cyrillic alphabet, created in late 9th century, was in every way superior, somehow ended up in the writing system of a state that appeared in the 14th century?

>Michael the Brave used cyrillic on his seal
>this surely means he was bulgarian
Also, Cyril was a fuckig greek hack who copied off the greek alphabet. I dont why you faggots are so proud about it, when it not actually even your creation.

Romanians. As stated by a Hungarian chronicle no less!

Now watch the eternal mongol trying to deny or spin this.

Please explain why the Wallachian rulers in that period all had slavic names like Mircea/Mircho, Vlad and Vladislav, and Radu/Rado instead of Latin names. Please explain where "Basarab" comes from while you're at it.

Seems diffent than your regular moon runes doesnt it?. And if it doesnt, please translate it for me.

Because back then the language of the church was slavic and so was the writing. And the nobles and clergy were the only literate people in the country so it makes sense that they would sometimes choose slavic names for their children.
Also neither Radu nor Mircea is a slavic name get real.

Also, why do you have slavic names when you are turkic?
Basarab was half cuman, his father's bame was fucking Tochomerius.

The Germans.

Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And do not bring us to the time of trial, but rescue us from the evil one. Cause to You belongs the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory for all eternity, amen.

>neither Radu nor Mircea is a slavic name
Radu is directly from the slavic root rad-, as in Radoslav, Radomir etc. It's exactly as slavic as Vlad. Mircea is just a Romanization of a popular South Slavic name. It's no more Romanian than Nicolae (greek name.)

>back then the language of the church was slavic and so was the writing.
That's right.

History is only one of my hobbies, and I have made no claims about you or your people. I'm posting stuff I've seen and I'm pointing out where you are wrong, I have no interest in making you believe your ancestors were Bulgarians or some absurd shit. You are not being objective because you see the history of the lands you inhabit as part of your personal history, but whatever helps your identity and lets you sleep at night is okay with me.
I'm not the other poster who thinks you are basically Bulgarians in denial, I'm just pointing out how clueless you are. Case study: "Cyril was a fuckig greek hack who copied off the greek alphabet. I dont why you faggots are so proud about it, when it not actually even your creation." Cyril created the Glagolithic, while the Cyrillic was created by his students in Bulgaria during Boris I's reign. Can you see how unprepared you are to argue about this?

Please.

Top fucking kek. Translate it phonetically, you fucking lying nigger. I want see how you use our diacritics.

>you
I'm a transylvanian romanian fyi.
>Basarab was half cuman, his father's bame was fucking Tochomerius
Indeed. So the Wallachian rulers were a Turkic dynasty that assimilated into the Slavic elite.

...

>Cyrillic was created by his students in Bulgaria
Dude, cyrillic is a fucking copy paste from the greek alphabet. How the fuck did the bulgarians created it when they copied 75% of it? Literally nigger WE WUZ tier.

Every alphabet is a copy-paste from older alphabets, ultimately going back to Phoenician script you fucking mong.

Thats not true at all.

>Slavic elite.
What slavic elite,you fucking faggot? What proof have you got? Daca esti transilvanean, sa o fut pe ma-ta in gura de javra. Trebuia noi si moldovenii sa va salvam de la pula ungureasca , ca acuma sa faceti gura.

Okay, my bad.

Every alphabet used in Western Eurasia and the parts of the world Caucasians colonized.

I honestly feel sad about you. Denying the history of other nations won't boost the achievements of yours. I have a feeling you have an inferiority complex because Romanians were late to the party.

>every alphabet is a copy paste
>yet bulgarians invented one

>butt-blasted nationalist idiot thinks debating history is like being a hooligan at a soccer game
this is exactly why no one takes the balkans seriously.

>What slavic elite, you fucking faggot?
those orthodox guys with slavic names who spoke slavic and went to study in Bulgaria

>Also neither Radu nor Mircea is a slavic name get real.
You're really a retard if you dont think theyre slavic when all slavic nations have variations of these names.
Bulgars werent turkic. They were iranic. Bulgarians have almost 0 turkic DNA of any kind. Meanwhile romanians probably have more turkic DNA due to the whole cuman and pecheneg settlement.

Also old slavonic is Old Bulgarian, the slavic language of the slavs of the Bulgarian kingdom that created the bulgarian ethnicity. Almost every historian(except serbs and fyromians) confirms this.

>be Dacian
>mind your business
>Italians out of nowhere demand your clay
>no
>get genocided and assimilated
>Italians fuck off
>go back to minding your sheep
>Steppe autismos screech around the mountains
>Battle of Posada happens
>Why did you make me do this? I just wanted to farm and mind the sheep

Hey did you know Cyril didn't invent an alphabet from scratch either? Shocking, I know.

>Denying the history of others
Kek, then why do you deny that the greeks /phoenicians invented the alphabet you write in now?
Also romanians may have been late to the party, but they ate the biggest slice of cake and fucked the host, while the other guys sat on the couch with the a beer in their hand.

>those orthodox guys with slavic names who spoke slavic and went to study in Bulgaria
Top fucking kek, name one romanian ruler who spoke bulgarian and studied in Bulgaria.

This is beyond any hope.

As expected from someone using latin shitcurves to not even look at the cyrilic alphabet. The letters Б, Ж, Ъ, Ь, Ш, Щ, Ю, Я, Ч, Ѫ,Ѣ have origins from Bulgar runes. Meanwhile almost the entire glagolithic alphabet is created from Bulgar runes or with letters made up by Cyril and Methodi themselves. Even if cyrillic has more greek letters, the actual creator of cyrillic was a Bulgarian, St. Kliment Ohridski. Cyril and Methodi only created glagolithic.

Mircea cel Bătrân

>Bulgars werent turkic.
Nice one, Abdul.
>old slavonic is old bulgarian
Nigger, slavs inhabited Thracia before you
Turkic steppe niggers arrived in Europe.

>Meanwhile almost the entire glagolithic alphabet is created from Bulgar runes or with letters made up by Cyril and Methodi themselves.

That's false. The two brothers were Macedonian Slavs born in Thessaloniki. What makes you think they would have used Bulgar runes for an alphabet designed for Slavs?

>Nigger, slavs inhabited Thracia before you
That's false, too.
This thread is absurd. Fucking absurd.

The closest centers of learning were in Greece or Bulgaria during that period, I don't even understand what you're trying to deny.

Give a source, you fucking nigger. How the fuck Mircea spoke bulgarian and when he went to study bulgarian?

Prove to me that Mircea went to those schools. If you cant, shut the fuck up.

>what are the anthes, sclaveni and veneti

What makes you think they would have used Bulgar runes for an alphabet designed for Slavs?
For efficiency? To suit the phonetic peculiarities of the slavic language for which an altered greek alphabet was impractical?

Because they were trying to introduce an alphabet to the slavs in the bulgarian empire which used its own runes? The creators of the cyrillic alphabet were bulgarian, so its believable they incorporated their own rules into their alphabet.

bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Мирчо_Стари

translate this and see

How is this even a question? The Romanians, Hungarians migrated into it during the 9th-10th centuries.

Would they use the writing system of a people foreign to the Slavs if they wanted it to be efficient? Do you think the two brothers won a scholarship and went to Bulgaria to study the local runes? And the Bulgarian state used Greek for its needs. All the epigraphic material from the 9th century proves this.

>abdul
Youre really not the brightest one , huh curva ieftine(see, I can speak romanian because it has Bulgarian words).

>bulgarian source, written in bulgarian
Do you know that there are romanian fags that claim that Peter and Asen where vlach? You do the same shit right now.

>curva ieftine
Did you mean curvă ieftină, like your mother?

There are Bulgarian scholars who claim the same, and they may very well be.

The Bulgar and slavic ethnicities were already merged at that point.

Looks like bulgarian runes were much more common outside of bulgaria than realized.

nah, just the vlach pussy I fucked in dobrudzha.

>The Bulgar and slavic ethnicities were already merged at that point.

Now this is getting out of hand. I'm out.

Wasnt Dobrogea yours once? Also, I wouldnt talk about whores if I where you.

>Poles and Hungarians have some common words, names, rulers, Catholic faith and were at some point in an alliance despite being from different linguistic groups
"Polish-Hungarian brotherhood forever"

>Romanians and Bulgarians have some common words, names, rulers, Orthodox faith and were at some point in an alliance despite being from different linguistic groups
"Romanians have no history and culture, they're inferior to us Bulgarians and stole everything from us, Romanian isn't even Latin...."

Never understood this meme. Romania and Bulgaria don't even have major disputes anymore and common Romanians have a generally good opinion on Bulgaria and even Romanian nationalists ignore Bulgaria completely and just focus on Transylvania and Moldova. But there's these young Bulgarian nationalists that are so virulently anti-Romanian, even more than the Hungarian ones sometimes. Is it a leftover from panslavists propaganda from Russophiles there or what?

Actually, it's more likely that Mircea or his advisors studied in Serbia given the architecture of the monuments built under his reign. But Serbia is still slavic obviously.

>Prove
All the literary vestiges we have point to fact that Wallachians got their learning from the Byzantine world and specifically its Slavic offshoots. Many manuscripts found in possession of Wallachian rulers were literally commissioned for Serbian and Bulgarian rulers who later sold them to their northern neighbors. All these works and more were obviously written in Serbian and Bulgarian.
Read Rumanian Studies Vol 2 by Radu Constantinescu if you care. There's nothing controversial about this, anymore than the idea that Romanian elites in the 20th century often spoke Russian and went to study in Moscow (or French and Paris before communist rule)

Most bulgarian nationalists only care about serbia and macedonia, but there are also a lot of nationalists who despise all of Bulgaria's neighbours because they all fought against bulgaria and took its land.

>Rumanian Studies vol 2 by Radu Constantinescu
this should be "the essay by...", specifically "The Oldest Liturgy of the Rumanian Church, Its Sources and Diffusion"
note that slavic influence was obviously not limited to liturgy, it was also the language of administration, which is why Romanian uses a slavic numbering system to this.

this

Vampires ofc

>Who was in Transylvania first.
Srbi. Transilvanija je Srbija.

Give Cadrilater back, Bulgarian scum.

Question (in good faith) for the Bulgarian.

How come Wallachia, Moldavia (and to a lesser extent) Transylvania got Vlach'd if the high nobles and clergymen were Bulgarian and the peasantry was mostly Slavic as well (plus some Turanics and Vlachs)?

Not that guy, but I wonder when the switch happened exactly. Neagoe Basarab, Voivode of Wallachia was still writing secular literature in Church Slavonic in 1512, and Radu Paisie "is remembered as the patron of Church Slavonic and one-time sponsor of the printer Dimitrije Ljubavić[...]

During his ten-year reign, Paisie revived Wallachian printing, which still used Church Slavonic rather than preserving the attested vernacular.[135] This reflected his patronage of Serb craftsmen from the Republic of Venice and the Sanjak of Bosnia, including Božidar Vuković and of Vuković's nephew, Dimitrije Ljubavić. [...] The impact of Slavonic as a state language remained high, even though occasionally challenged by Greek. According to archivist Aurelian Sacerdoțeanu, the penetration of Greek at Paisie's court was overestimated because of a single text which survived in Greek translation. The rediscovery of its Slavonic original toned down that claim, although "one could still write in Greek in Wallachia at that time."[138] "

tl;dr in the mid-16th century even the prestigious Greek language was still having trouble competing with Slavonic at the Wallachian court. Yet at the same time:
>One of [Paisie's letters to the burghers of Hermannstadt] asks for a for “a well trained and learned scribe since the previous one got sick and I do not have any other left.” The letter does not mention whether the prince needed a scribe trained in Latin or Slavonic languages, but it is well known that at the time of Radu Paisie’s reign several scribes of Slavonic documents were active in the Wallachian chancellery. Therefore, one might assume that the requested scribe was envisaged for the Latin documents.
Which shows (Renaissance) Latin was starting to hold some importance at court, although it was unusual and in high demand to be fluent in it. (Source: nec.ro/data/pdfs/publications/nec/2010-2011/MARIANA_GOINA.pdf)

Isn't Mircea a cognate of Mark?

If only the rest of muslims were like the Romanian ones.

Some other chronological indicators:
- Județul Vâlcea, which was named after the Hungarian-appointed ruler Farcaș, wolf in Hungarian, which was translated as vlk/vâlc in Slavonic and gave its name to the district. Farcaș ruled until the 1270s and it's unlikely it was named after him while he was still alive, so it probably means Slavonic was for administrative names some time in 14th century.
- a fuckload of lesser courtiers before the 16th century had names ending in -vici, which is the slavic -vich. The end of the practice probably marks the decline of slavic nobles at court
- You start seeing a lot of traveler's accounts around the mid-15th century noting that the vlachs "have started calling themselves rumanians" and the like.