Operation Sea Lion

It would be the exact same story as the eastern front, it'd still end with Germany losing the war, with the key difference all of Europe would become communist afterwards.

Fuck no, the losses in BoB were comparable, but in materiel, not manpower, the British didn't loose so many pilots as did the germans and there was always a new plane when they safely parachuted to home ground
Nobody was putting any amount of equipment and men(paratroopers especially) if the RAF has air superiority and with the home fleet patrolling the channel at all times a naval assault was impossible.
Not to mention the complete lack of support/logistics any decimated unit would't receive if they got there anyway.
And if so much as one German boot touched British soil, the bongs would go apeshit and turn Germany into a fucking wasteland, using chemical weapons
In short, no.

Germans had better chemical weapons than Britain but I suppose the Brits could use theirs without much retaliation after they got air superiority but by then they didn't need to

Chemical weapons are not magic. If you have a little bit of warning they are not super effective and a strong breeze means you have to deal with it just as much as the enemy.

Britain had a plan to sow the entire German cattle industry with anthrax, Germany dosen't have a reply to that because they were more concerned with building Sarin gas rounds for artillery they never fucking used

Yes but the Brits had a larger stockpile IIRC

My point is that Britain did not want to use chemical or biological weapons on Germany until they had air superiority because of fear of retaliation. But by the time they had clear air superiority it looked like Germany would lose the war through conventional means anyway.

This

No.

>would a naval invasion against a naval super power have worked

Even Barbarossa had a better chance of succeeding than Sealion. The Germans at least had a formidable ground force, and not the nonexistant super navy that would be required to take on the United Kingdom.

Crete is a very poor example to use, the Fallschirmjager units were butchered. German airborne doctrine was stupendously shitty and involved men jumping unarmed with weapons dropped in a container after the stick. This resulted in entire units being hopelessly gunned down as they frantically tried to figure out where their weapons had landed.

Only scenario I can imagine is if Germany held off long enough to develope their V-2 program and bomb the Brits into oblivion, but they'd have to accomplish that sooner than they originally did and be lucky enough the Soviets don't declare war for some reason.

What if Germans had Grand slams for London Blitz?

No Germany did not the navy for it and the Battle of Britain further cemented how impossible it was going to be

Nothing would change, because the Germans didn't have anything that could lift it.

Germany and really any hope for the survival of western civilization died the second that fucking retard Hitler attacked Poland.

Even if they got troops across, they wouldn't be able to supply them.

Armies need a lot of supplies.

They could've just eaten the Brits and used their teeth as bullets

>any hope for the survival of western civilization

History repeating itself.

>British teeth as bullets
They'd all miss their targets

Oh boy this thread again. No. The Germans had no air superiority, no navy to speak of when compared to the RN, no specialized amphibious equipment and two thirds of Goerings air transport fleet, along with 2000 Fallschirmjäger, was destroyed in Holland. No way.

>>would a naval invasion against a naval super power have worked
The bongs were not a super power by any stretch, and if the Nazis control the air, the bong navy is so much scrap.

>The bongs were not a super power by any stretch
Yes they were
>and if the Nazis control the air,
They wouldn't, but even if they could

>the bong navy is so much scrap.
That's why the Dunkirk evacuation was all sunk from the air, with that German air superiority over the harbor. That's why they weren't able to operate around Crete, what with the Italian-German air supremacy over the island in 1941. Surely, those fleet detachments were sunk en masse instead of taking only minor damage over extended daylight operations.

>if the Nazis control the air, the bong navy is so much scrap.
No shit Sherlock, but guess what, even after a year of trying to get aerial supremacy, the krauts couldn't do it, and at the rate they were going, they weren't ever going to have aerial supremacy.

If they'd made it a point to produce sufficient air resources, they could have controlled the air, and that was the key enabler to forcing the bongs to submit. But that was never Hitler's plan, and since the bongs were cucked and fucked anyways, he moved on to his life's work, which lay to the East.

>Crete
You are aware the bongs were humiliated in Crete, aren't you, user?

...

does that mean they were playing futbol in Crete, user? Could explain a lot.

>The bongs were not a super power by any stretch, and if the Nazis control the air, the bong navy is so much scrap.
air power is pitiful against a navy without special antiship training, which Germans never had

No, it means that your claim that the British navy was "so much scrap" at Crete has little to do with the overall loss of the battle. You are wrong.

That's true, the Nazis never developed that sector of warfare in the 4 years the Luftwaffe was in existence at that point. They planned on cucking the bongs, which they did, and then turning East.

>your claim that the British navy was "so much scrap" at Crete
No, I never made such a claim, user. You brought up Crete, not me.

But I did point out that the bongs were humiliated in Crete, after you brought it up for some reason.

No, there wasn't a point where they could outproduce the bongs, and they were fighting over home ground, and could easily replace planes while the Luftwaffe had a shorter operational range due to lack of fuel
>cucked and fucked
Oh so you're that shitposter.
Carry on

>Could operation sea lion have been a success
NO
>if it had happened instead of Barbarossa?
no and now the russians are invading germany rather than being invaded.
>It wouldnt have been possible to knock out the RAF
Correct
>but German and British losses were roughly comparable in the Battle of Britain
only in terms of material, the british lost far fewer pilots, and as far as material losses go, the british may have lost nearly as much but they comfortably outproduced germany in all types of aircraft so even in material terms the germans were losing.

>so they may have been able to fight them to a draw.
No, and even if they had a draw would not have been enough.

>Could U-boats have been used to secure the channel, while bombers and dive bombers attacked from the air?
nope, uboats in such narrow and shallow waters die, and the bombers and dive bombers wouldnt have been of much assistance as it took the luftwaffe years to master anti shipping tactics.

>Would enough troops, and more importantly, heavy equipment and armor have been able to get transported to Britain?
No, assuming that the germans somehow manage to get all their sea lift across without losing most of it they didnt have the capability to lift more than a few divisions across, and not enough capacity to support them for long.

>I think the most likely scenario would have been using paratroopers to capture a port and use that as an area to set up a beach head.
assuming the paratroops somehow make it across and dont get brutalised by the RAF, and the AA around every coastal town, which in itself is unlikely, and then somehow manage to take a port despite lacking heavy equipment against a dug in enemy, they are then almost certainly stuck in a port with no hope of resupply and no chance of reinforcement while the RN and RAF murder every attempt to relieve them.

put it another way the allied plan for dieppe was better conceived and organised in every respect and that did not go well either.

Probably not because Nazi high command was totally incompetent.

>invade North Africa in a general European war
>invade a massive nation you have a non-aggression pact with instead of an enemy nation on the brink of collapse

Fucking lol. No army in history has had more advantages and fucked up so badly.

>No, I never made such a claim, user.
You claimed, and I quote>and if the Nazis control the air, the bong navy is so much scrap.

The Nazis controlled the air at Crete. The British navy conducted its operations successfully. Your claim is wrong.

>The bongs were not a super power by any stretch, and if the Nazis control the air, the bong navy is so much scrap.
not really the luftwaffe had shit antishipping tactics.

what he means is that while the army did indeed lose control of the island, the RN despite constant luftwaffe bombing and german air superiority was able to carry out a fairly successful evacuation.

not him, but the reason it was brought up was because it is a fairly clear cut example of german airpower trying and failing to destroy a RN fleet despite having total air superiority. hence disproving the contention that if the germans had air superiority then the RN was scrap.

Yeah, it could have been, I also could have been born rich as fuck.
In order for sea lion to succeed you’d have to rewind time to the early 30’s and woo the USA.
Unfortunately, just like my rich parents, this alliance with the USA would not, could not, and never did happen.

The Nazis were up against it from the start. They were always outnumbered and outgunned, even before Barbarossa. The British always had more men, more resources and more money. Germany was basically bankrupt by 1940

>Britain
>superpower at anything

Sure they had a better navy than krauts, but their land army was terrible, and the Channel is tiny
Had the Germans just managed to pass 100,000 troops they'd have conquered the island in a day

>implying Germany was capable of landing anything
Dude they were broke

firstly the germans couldnt lift 100000 troops, secondly the earliest the germans could have launched sealion is late july early august.

by this point the british have completely replaced their material loses from dunkirk, raised several additional divisions and constructed a series of defenses and strong points that would have required considerably more time to conquer than the germans would have had before supplies ran out

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GHQ_Line

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea_Lion_(wargame)

It would have been a logistical nightmare

As unlikely as the success is, I just cant help but imagine making editor scenarios in men of war or Battle of empires 1914-18 where the british home guard defend against paratroopers

>Amerimutt education

>The Nazis controlled the air at Crete.
No, that would be false.

>The British navy conducted its operations successfully.
No, that would be false as well. The bongs were humiliated in Crete, as we know historically.

>a fairly successful evacuation.
So if the enemy defeats you, you win. You must be a bong.

>Germany was basically bankrupt by 1940
...and so were the bongs.

Wrong. You should try reading a history book instead of /int/ memes.

That legendary bong "education".

>Battle of Crete, a bong naval "victory":
>4,123 dead
>unknown wounded
>17,479 captured
>4 cruisers sunk
>6 destroyers sunk
>1 aircraft carrier
>2 battleships damaged
>4 cruisers damaged
>2 destroyers damaged
>1 submarine damaged

So Nazis attack Crete and are outnumbered at least 2:1 and proceed to BTFO the bongs and kill or capture most of them, and destroy a chunk of their meme navy, and this is bong "victory"?

>behold the majesty of bong "education"

Can you read? I never at any point claimed that the British won at Crete. I have claimed, repeatedly, and against the assertion you made upthread, that their fleet was not pounded into scrap in the face of German air control. This bodes poorly for any attempted Sealion, since even complete air control (which they would not have over southern England) was insufficient to stop the Royal Navy.

I now await your bizarre redrafting of what I wrote, so you can continue your screed.

>their fleet was not pounded into scrap in the face of German air control.
So basically, the bong meme navy ran like scalded dogs, after getting BTFO, and you're claiming that... what is it you're claiming again, lad?

>insufficient to stop the Royal Navy.
Well, it's hard to stop a meme navy that's running like a scalded dog. I'm forced to agree with you here.

Nope. Learn to read.

Assuming you're not samefagging, you could do with brushing up on the reading comprehension as well.

running like scalded dogs? one of the reasons the RN took so much damage at crete is that the RN refused to break off the evacuation even when the senior army commander on crete recommended it. the Admiral literally refused to contemplate it 'it takes 3 years to build a ship, 300 years to build a tradition, the evacuation continues'

so no the Royal Navy didnt run like scalded dogs, they stood and fought until every soldier who could be evacuated was. then steamed for alexandria.

Such a victory the Fallschirmjager never ever did a combat drop again

>The bongs were not a super power by any stretch
Ok dude.

>not samefagging
>both posts repeat "running like scalded (sic) dogs"
Unlikely.

Read about literally anything Churchill did in his second term as prime minister, British Foreign policy was a mix of attempting to teach America the ins ands outs of being an ultra power and attemping to hold onto relevance (Churchill's support for a "Third empire" based around africa and the feelings surrounding the independence of India is of particular importance)

Wew, lad, the volumes of cope in that post.
Perhaps a simple "the meme navy got BTFO" might remove that burden of cope from you?

Heck, why bother, they BTFO the bongs with less than half their forces, might as well go even thinner next time eh?

Not sure what you're trying to say here, lad. You might want to leave the idiot Churchill out of any discussion you engage though.

were it not for the blatant factual inaccuracy in such a statement it might.

as it stands the RN carried out a difficult evacuation under heavy and constant air attack successfully.

a far smaller force than the british home fleet, largely consisting of older models of ship, in a situation that limited their ability to take evasive action, further damaging the credibility of the statement 'and if the Nazis control the air, the bong navy is so much scrap.' the nazis controlled the air in a environment that required much of the mediterranean fleet to be essentially sitting ducks - hard to evade and take on evacuated troops at the same time- and the Royal Navy still managed to perform its mission successfully.

why you are so vested in the concept of the british navy being a 'meme navy' I am unsure, but your dedication to the concept does now seem to verge on the pathological, certainly in the face of the available evidence it is irrational and counterfactual.

>RN carried out a difficult evacuation
So the meme navy got BTFO, the operation was a complete failure, campaign lost, over half the bong forces on Crete dead or in POW camps, and you're claiming something was "carried out"

Wew, lad... the cope.

Air force can fuck up a naval force but without ship you can't protect convoy

>without ship you can't protect convoy
Well, from the looks of things, the meme navy WITH ship can't protect convoy.

You're obsessed, boy. Chill

the problem is that the convoy that was supposed to get destroyed got multiple torpedo and still didn't sink saving Malta

12 days of more or less constant air attack with very little air defense, and they still didnt manage to stop the convoy.

also the strength table is a little off, as some of the carriers and both battleships as well as some of the destroyers were only going part way and were never engaged.

If germany actually stopped to build a real airforce, probably.

What retard thought that would be a good idea?

Safer to land without weapons in terms of surviving the fall.

Yeah and after Crete Hitler pussied out and didn't want to use them despite them being one of the best military inventions ever.

In what way did they cuck the bongs?

The bongs had the worlds greatest super power by their sides though. They didn't need to worry.

Some drivel about being starved out when their food situation was always more secure than that of Germany's.

>hurr, look at my empire of dirt!

We seen how that worked out in WW1
Needed the help of France, Russia and America to barely beat lone Germany

>What retard thought that would be a good idea?

Instead of an aviator type parachute like the Brits, Americans and everybody else used that supported the paratrooper from the shoulders, the Germans used a parachute design that was essentially a big wide belt that the ‘chute was attached to, so the paratrooper hung from a single point like a sack of potatoes and was trained to do a barrel roll upon landing (they were also taught to jump from the plan like a swimmer taking a dive into a pool and not standing straight up, like everybody else).

This meant the German paras couldn’t cary anything more then a pistol and whatever they could stuff in their pockets, thus all their weapons and gear was dropped separately in containers that they then had to locate on the battlefield.

This worked fine in 1940, especially as German paratroop strategy hinged on them capturing an airfield, where more heavily armed troops would be air-landed immediately afterward but by the time of Crete, the Allies had gotten wise to that and the Germans took shitloads of casualties and Hitler never let them do another paradrop again.

t. brainlet

>by this point the british have completely replaced their material loses from dunkirk

Not hardly. After Dunkirk, the Brits only 100 tanks in the entire UK and most of them were light tanks armed with only machine guns.

The Germans would have to assemble any tanks they brought from pieces because the barges can't carry a full tank, so it's not that much of a disadvantage

Are you retarded? The first and second armored divisions were both formed up before the BEF was dispatched to France, neither went, and they had seen no combat. Between them, they had about 700 tanks, and yes, they were in England after Dunkirk. And I don't have offhand information of the 2nd division, but the first had 63 light tanks to 205 mediums, and another 25 assault tanks.

Supplying them with fuel and parts would probably be the greater challenge.

No one wanted to use chemical weapons, because they all remembered world war 1 and did not want more of that shit.

It's more practical than that.

Chemical weapons were shown in WW1 to really not be all that effective on the battlefield. Countermeasures for them developed quickly and effectively, and once those were deployed, casualty rates were surprisingly low. Most gas casualties returned to the front fairly fast (70% within 6 weeks), and only about 5% of casualties were killed or permanently put out of action. And that's all with a weapon that's alarmingly difficult to deploy in a manner that won't be dangerous to your own advancing troops.

Of course, there was the possibility of gas attacks on cities, but there too there was training of civilians to reduce potential casualties. Perhaps just as importantly, any gas attack on civilians would open up the potential for retaliatory attacks in kind.

>worked fine in 1940

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dombås

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_The_Hague

They were already useless in 1940.

Most civilian measures would not have worked on modern (for the time) Nerve gas, which was done on contact not breathing.