Sumo or conventional?

Sumo is for egolifting faggots. The same people that do a 9pl8 leg press instead of squats or rainbow their backs on a bench press.

semi-sumo best deadlift

>Are you competing?
>Yes
Train both during off season, get a feel for which one lets you pull more weight, use that for competition
>No
Then you are a recreational lifter.
>>Is there a way you enjoy more than the other?
>>Yes
Then train that
>>No
Then train both
>>>No, I want to pick one only for specialisation and faster progress
Then pull conventional, unless your wingspan is shorter than your height, in which case pull sumo

rack pull 1000lbs 3 inches above the knee for 1 rep then slam it down on the safeties bending the bar and ruining everyones gym experience

>>Are you competing?
>>No
>Then you are a recreational lifter.
kek

wingspan is a shit for determining sumo/conventional.

also completely forgetting there's such a thing as semi-sumo.

Snatch grip

You might not be strong, but you're pretty good at making up reasons why people might be stronger than you.

>>>No
>>Then you are a recreational lifter.
>kek
Is there something wrong with that?
>wingspan is a shit for determining sumo/conventional.
True, but I said wingspan compared to height. Sumo is necessary for LANKLETS with short arms and not necessary for anyone else
>there's such a thing as semi-sumo.
Off topic, literally

8/10 made me reply

Listen to this user, he is right.

A guy at my gym has super long legs and his toes are almost touching the plates.
He always does very fast deadlifts and slams the weight down, fractions of an inch from smashing his toes.

you don't need to compete to be a non-recreational lifter.
example: clarence.

no, sumo is not necessary for lanklets with short arms.
it all depends on the individual.
only way to find out what works best is by trying it out.

there's such a thing as context, and considering other forms besides conventional and full sumo falls under that.

ugh, all "power"lifters on this board spew the same shitty bs.
go back to your containment thread.

>I argue about semantics and nitpick on arguments of strangers on the internet while not making a point or contributing to the discussion for no reason other to sound like a smartass

Squat stance/semi-sumo master race

just tired of seeing the same bullshit memes over and over again.

also how have I not contributed or made a point?
I've said that
>wingspan is shit for determining sumo/conventional
and that
>only way to find out what works best is by trying it out.

I've even mentioned an alternative OP might not have thought of:
>there's such a thing as semi-sumo

This applies to so many areas in lifting
>only way to find out what works best is by trying it out.
and yet people yearn for cookie-cutter bullshit like "when ur hand is bigger than ur cock, do sumo, blabla".

Please use a tripcode so I can filter you

PULL SUMO EAT BUTT

hello AlphaDestiny

no, fuck off, baby.

...

what do if i have long legs (read: long LEGS, not long femurs, i'm a good squatter just have these odd long ass lower legs)

who's that shredded beast pulling sumo in the rightmost pic?

both right now, doing nuckols 2x int

how you finding it breh?

yury belkin, i think
instagram.com/belkin_one_power/

it's hard, it has an amount of volume comparable to the 4 day Sheiko templates

very important to pick a no form breakdown max like greg suggests I think, if you base it off a grinder you are dead meat when it comes to 85% week

i was gonna do it since my DL has stalled big time on the texas method, but i'm not sure I can bring myself to abandon it on account of my crazy squat gains. always wondered if nuckols 2x int DL was a good program to pair with texas squats but judging by your post it sounds very much like they'd pair horribly

>always wondered if nuckols 2x int DL was a good program to pair with texas squats

Pair it with the 2 day int Squat. Do high-bar squats instead of front squats if you don't have the ability to do a decent front squat.

if you're getting good squat gains, why even worry about your deadlift?

if you just stop deadlifting now, but gain 50kg on your squat, your deadlift will probably be a lot higher as well.
deadlifts are more a test of strength than a strength/mass builder.

try pulling just once a week with submax weights, while gaining on your squat.

yes TM + this routine would be an unmitigated disaster

the fatigue accumulates over like 3 weeks, and the first week is already 8x3 deadlifts at 75% so you would be toast for ID

because the squat->deadlift carryover meme is greatly overblown, and for most people they will have to train the deadlift heavily if they want to be good at it

pulling once a week with submax weights, for most people, is a recipe for a pathetic deadlift

and no, the deadlift is not more of a test of strength than a mass/muscle builder, most people just have a shitty Rippetoesque minimalist mentality when it comes to training the deadlift and are flabbergasted when their one set a week doesn't lead to the same gains that 9 sets of squats do

don't wanna abandon the TM just yet or i'd have switched to nuckols in a heartbeat, i'm addicted to these squat gains and am benefitting largely from squatting 3x a week techique wise. 1x a week might not cut it for me with nuckols. thanks for the suggestion tho breh.

nah lad, my deadlift has been the same for ages, my squat surpassed it ags ago. i have long ass legs and relatively short femurs.

currently got this setup going

Mon:
Squat 5x5
RDL 3x8

Wed:
Squat 2x5 (light)

Fri:
Squat 1x5
DL 1x5
high bar 3x3

just your standard texas method template with accessories.
works beautifully for squats. am going to add in speed deadlifts on monday before RDLs and see how that goes.

why not add a heavier variation of deadlifts to address a weakpoint?

because i am afraid of infringing on my squat recovery, my RDLs leave me with sore hammies by the time friday comes around if i'm not careful. plus i don't know what would help most, and also because rippetoe and lascek have me (rightfully?) scared of the high recovery demands of deadlifts and i'm worried for my squat recovery

if i knew i could recover in time, i'd simply add more conventional deadlifting (i pull conventional), i dunno i guess i just never tried it and never cared how low it was until now.

to be honest i don't know what i'm doing when it comes to deadlifts.

where is your sticking point?

are you weak off the floor?

I don't think that that's the case for most people.
And I certainly don't think that pulling once a week with submax weights is a recipe for a shit deadlift for most people.

And the deadlift is definitely more of a test of strength.
It has a smaller range of motion, but higher recovery demands than squats.
That makes it less of a mass building exercise.

I do certainly agree that one set a week may be too little if you don't do any other posterior chain work.
But it's a good idea to do RDLs or SLDLs or other posterior chain work that doesn't have such high recovery demands as regular deadlifts.

ah, yeah, if your squat long surpassed your deadlift, you're gonna have to work on it.
almost never see that happen though.

if you do conventional deadlifts, consider trying semi-sumo.

you could also just keep deadlifts on the backburner and just focus on squats until your squat gains run out.
then after, you could try to get your deadlift up again, while not having to worry about squat recovery demands.

it's not unseen for lifters to focus on one or the other.

BOTH

sometimes i fail at or slightly above the knee, sometimes i can't break it off the ground (towards the end of my set).

if all else fails i'll keep it on the backburner. i suppose its not ideal but if i can hit my annual squat goal of 225kg at 85kg, i'll work more on my deadlift.

that is demonstrably the case for most people, which is why non-retarded powerlifting programs (see: nothing by Rippetoe or his retarded offshoot Lascek) have you deadlifting with some significant volume

and saying the range of motion being smaller makes the deadlift an inferior mass builder is silly, they are completely different patterns (squat vs hip-hinge)

the deadlift hits certain muscle groups much harder than squats can due to the mechanics of the lift (hamstrings, lower back, traps, forearms)

as for deadlifts being harder to recover from - for most people, they are harder to recover from, but they are not so hard to recover from that you should be doing 10 sets of squats a week and one set of deadlift a week

look at any training system that has produced actually successful powerlifters - anything by Mike Tuscherer, Boris Sheiko, JTS, Dietmar

they all have you deadlifting with high volume

no amount of rippetoe bullshit is going to convince me or anyone with half a brain that deadlifting a single submaximal set a week is anywhere near optimal for developing the deadlift, or developing all the muscles that are critical to the deadlift

ok so how would you guys adapt the TM in order to make the deadlift increase properly? would simply doing more sets be too much to recover from, given the constant heavy squats?

also everyone says that deadlifts are harder to recover from but after my 1x5 i am never really sore. if i can't feel it, how can i tell when i am fully recovered? just seems like a bit of an abstract concept to me

What a complete, pretentious faggot
>Semi-sumo
>Sucking Texan cock this much
Lol
Post body faggot

SS is a novice program, so the deadlift volume is okay for that.
But yeah, agreed on the rest.

The patterns are not completely different at all.
A guy I know squats like 600 at 180, and his deadlift looks pretty much like his squat, except shorter range of motion.
Ofcourse there are people whose squats and deadlifts look pretty different, and for them trying both has more merit.

Yeah, deadlifts hit the hamstrings, traps and forearms harder than squats, which is why I mentioned the RDLs and SLDLs.
They build those muscles just as well, and hamstrings even better than regular deadlifts, but have less impact on recovery.
If you keep a neutral spine, squats actually hit the lower back slightly harder than deadlifts (while deadlifts hit the upper spinal erectors slightly harder).

Yeah, sure one set of deadlifts a week is little.

you've gotta remember that those are all powerlifting training systems.
the deadlift is massively important for pl, but not nearly as paramount to general strength training.
SLDLs, RDLs, trap-bar deadlifts are all fine (or even better if you ask me) substitutes if you're not a powerlifter.

the mindset that if you wanna get strong you have to put all your effort in traditional deadlifts can be detrimental.

I don't know if it's possible to get your deadlift gains going and keep your squat gains going if you're gonna stick to TM.
maybe the other user has a good alternative if you're so inclined to make gains on squat and deadlift simultaneously.

I think TM is a bad program for most people.
No idea how you can conclude I was talking it up.

>I think TM is a bad program for most people.
shit deadlifter here.

i can not fault the TM for squats for a second, but i must admit that its suboptimal for upper body lifts in the way rippetoe lays it out.

one thing that the TM is good for however is improving a given lift once its LP has run out. example: i did 3x5 pull ups twice a week on it. once they ran out, i did a volume day and an intensity day for them which has got my weighted pull ups up to 42kg attached to my 84kg body which i am happy with.

nice bait reeeeetard

yeah, TM can definitely work for some people (adolescent males with a good frame that eat a lot).
I just think it's bad for most people.

being able to get up to 42kg weighted pull-ups at 84kg on TM is great, you should be happy!

thanks breh.

>1x a week might not cut it for me with nuckols

Nuckols has 1x, 2x, and 3x squat routines.

>am going to add in speed deadlifts on monday before RDLs and see how that goes.

You might fry yourself out. I did basically the routine you're proposing (except for RDLs on Fri, and snatch-grip deads instead of speed work), and I got beat to shit after 7 weeks. Beat to shit as in when I went to do my 5RM, I got stapled by the first rep.

The deadlift volume on SS is not ok when you consider there is either a 9:1 or a 9:2 ratio of squat to deadlift volume depending on which week you are in.

RDLs and SLDLs do not build hamstrings, traps, forearms, and low back anywhere near as much as conventional deadlifts do, because there are serious limitations in loading those lifts. RDLs are a great accessory exercise to get in some extra hamstring volume, but they are not a substitute for the regular deadlift anymore than a split squat would be a substitute for a regular squat.

>the mindset that if you wanna get strong you have to put all your effort in traditional deadlifts can be detrimental.

This is fucking hilarious coming from someone who is advocating doing one submaximal set of deadlifts a week, and doing 9 times that amount of squatting volume.

Posterior chain work:

Conventional > Sumo > Trap bar

Cool
>Conventional

Gay
>Sumo

Faggot
>Trap

Sumo is for manlets and faggots that can't pull conventional ROM.

Nice job on that 5" lift, bro.

guess i have my answer then. cheers.

i meant the practice you get from low bar squatting 3 times per week. the routines (as far as i know beyond the beginner level) only have you squatting a particular style once per week. squats being the most technical lift besides oly, the practice has done me a lot of good.

SS is just a novice program.
It also has powercleans, which are specifically put in as a lightweight deadlift variant.

If you get good at SLDLs, they shouldn't be far off your conventional deadlift weights.
E.g. my best SLDL is 85% of my best conventional pull.
RDLs and SLDLs build hamstrings better than conventional deadlifts, so you're dead wrong there.
You can use a double overhand grip and train forearms with RDLs and SLDLs perfectly.
Can't do that with conventional deadlifts, because grip would limit the weight.
Traps do get hit a bit harder, yeah.

There are different ways to do a RDL.
If you keep your knees almost locked, then yeah, it's more of a hamstring accessory.
But if you keep a decent bend in the knees, you can load RDLs really well.
Same goes for SLDLs.
Comparing them to a split squat is really off.

I never advocated doing one submaximal set of deadlifts a week.
I said
>try pulling just once a week with submax weights
which means one day a week, not one set a week.

>half size ROM
>half size bar movement
>that hip placement
>dropping the bar at the top missing half the rep

Sumo deadlifts are a meme and if anyone tells you otherwise they're retarded

Hey, is that Dr. Layne Norton PhD?

It is Dr Layne Norton PhD! He has a doctorate is health science which is why people call him Dr Layne Norton PhD!

>tfw manlet
>so many people shill for sumo
>realize that sumo for me is essentially the same as wide arms and curled back for bench
>do conventional to keep from cheating myself out of extra work
>tfw you insult me for not cheating on my deadlifts

i also prefer conventional for the lower back isolation because I already work legs with squats, so i feel no need to focus on them for dl as well

Power cleans are not in SS as a lightweight deadlift variant, this is extremely wrong

they are there to train rate of force production qualities that the squat, bench, dead, etc. do not

Power clean carryover to the deadlift only happens if you are an extremely poor deadlifter and an excellent power-cleaner, otherwise they motion is just too different and the loading on PCs is too low to have any carryover

The moment you completely unlock your knees and start flailing around like a mongoloid, you are no longer doing RDLs and should not be pretending that you are - you are just doing shitty half rep deadlifts.

Whichever suits your body and allows you to pull the most. I fucking love conventional though, hate sumo myself

from SS:

"Training faster with a given weight requires more force production, because acceleration requires force. And when the ability to produce force goes up, heavier weights can be lifted at all speeds, from the fastest speed trained on down. This is why the power clean makes the deadlift go up and the deadlift contributes to the power clean."

haven't you heard of speed sets?

>all these shit TM lifters with shit DLs

Im in the same boat, I've gone from 305×5 to 320x5 on my squat recently without my DL improving at all, stuck at 385x1. My 1rm squat will probably pass it soon, what do?

train DL in 2x2 or 1x3

Sumo. You can tell because his hands grip the bar between his legs, rather than outside.

>3 reps a week

>The moment you completely unlock your knees and start flailing around like a mongoloid, you are no longer doing RDLs and should not be pretending that you are - you are just doing shitty half rep deadlifts.
yeah, you have no clue what you're talking about...

kek

sure thing tough guy