Exactly whats wrong with Brosplits and PPL that everyone hates them on this board?

ULxULxx trains every muscle 2 times a week

PPLPPLx trains every muscle 2 times a week, but in 2 extra days

It's all about getting between Minimum Effective Volume and Maximum Recoverable Volume

For periodization: starting just above MIV and increasing volume periodically until you reach MRV, then returning to MIV again with the increased strength you gained from increasing volume.

PPL related question

When should I switch to PPL, if I'm going for AESTHETICS and muscle size? I've been doing SL w/ acesories for about 2.5 months now.

my lifts are currently

>Squat- 160
>Deadlift- 165
>OHP- 70
>Bench- 100
>Pendlay- 85

all for 5x5, except squat which is 3x5.
My current program is every-other day-
A Day- Squat, Bench, pendlay, shoulder flies
B Day- Squat, OHP, Diddly
With 5x5 of bicep curls, dips, pullups each day.

I know at some point I should go for PPL, but when? what milestone should I hit first? I want to eventually reach 1/2/3/4, but I prioritize aesthetics/ottermode over that strength achievement.

currently 148 at 5'10"

Doing a frequency of 1x a week is a wast of time indeed, but 1.5 - 2.5 is also effective.

But fullbody has the downside of not being able to do every muscle group equally in 1.5hrs of training.

Most people run a PPL program 3 days a week, which mean you only hit each muscle once a week, and you don't really need that long for recovery. You can still make good gains like that, but it's more efficient to do something with higher frequency.
Of course, there are people who do two iterations per week (PPLPPLx), but imho that's too much.

I did 5x5 stronglifts with some additional pull up and dip work but I just feel that my arms are really lagging behind in terms of growth

Only doing compounds for your arms is a meme after 5 months of lifting

PPL has much greater volume, however, leading to more hypertrophy.

Hypertrophy doesn't increase equally with volume, at some point you don't get much hypertrophy in return, only an increase in depletion.

The amount of volume necessary for maximum growth is easily attainable in an upperlower split.

Also the window from MEV to MRV is bigger with upperlower, making it more suitable to increase volume for periodization.

if you had to do it over again would you still start with SL or do SS? serious question: cause after meming around with a DB brosplit my friend made me i wanted to do one of the strength programs up to intermediate

So what kind of routine is the best when you can go to the gym 3 times a week?

been doing this upper lower for a while, really enjoy it 2bqh. upper/lowers seem to be out of fashion these days though

I regret wasting my time with SL. Just do PPL. I'd actually have good sized biceps and triceps if I did that from the start of my 7 months of lifting. I switched to PPL about two months and wish I did it way earlier.

Are you doing the full 6 days PPLPPLx?

PPL-rest-PPL

what do you say to this guy?

>Of course, there are people who do two iterations per week (PPLPPLx), but imho that's too much.

Just don't be a pussy and do it. I've been doing it while eating way less than I should because I can't eat enough without throwing up and with not enough rest, so instead of doing sets of 3x8 or 5x5, I do 2x8 or 3/4x5 and one other set of whatever I can do.

This is the same program, just started on different days.

I'm skeptical about the lack of a second rest day. If you need a rest day after one of the PPL blocks, why not after the other? Of course if you add a second rest day your program starts sliding forward one day per week so it would be harder to follow in every day life.

as i read from other forums, you switch when you start to stall on your lifts. Stalling is usually definied as deloading a lift two or three times and still failing it. Something like that you get the gist of the idea

yeah, i did stronglifts for like two weeks before getting bored and looking up something more comprehensive lel. Omar Isuf said it himself, that you wont grow your biceps without isolation work, since he did only compound stuff when he started.

Like yeah you shouldnt sub compound exercises for machine stuff, but you shouldnt think that doing compound will grow all your muscles and your tongue and penis.

the bench, pushups and chinups will never work your biceps the way that some DB curls will

chinups work your biceps more than curls, this has been proven, not saying adding curls is bad, it's not, you should add curls, but don't say stupid shit.

tell me more about how an exercise that targets the lats and utilizes the biceps works more the biceps than an exercise that targets the biceps themselves please

t-nation.com/training/inside-the-muscles-best-back-and-biceps-exercises

go to the middle of the page if you don't want to read through all of it.

> I used weight that was light enough to allow me to perform at least five repetitions. The only exception was on the weighted chin and pull up movements; I used loads that represented my 3-rep max.

>We've long suspected that lat pull-downs are inferior to chinning for lat activation, and now we have some data to support this claim (although the comparisons aren't really fair as I went heavier on the chins)

going off on just the things he said, assuming his testing method is actually correct and an accurate way of measuring how good an exercise is for both hypertrophy and strength. (like im sure there's a difference in how much someone will measure before and after doing a bunch of other exercises that he measured for)

now just some common logic, after doing some heavy bench presses or overhead pressing you wont be able to do chinups at the intensity that you /could/ be doing them, but DB curls are much easier to go max on.

im not trying to be contrarian, this just makes no sense to me after going over the evidence and all that

even if my lifts are babby shit? or should i just eat like a maniac and keep trying with SS? (not the guy youre replying to)

Brosplits get their bad reputation from bodybuilding.com forum members that have lifted for 5 months and think they fucking know everything about lifting.

The fact is, you should not be designing your own workouts until you've been lifting for at least a year. You simply haven't experienced enough progress after a year of lifting, and you don't know your body well enough to maximize your potential.

Those things you quoted also kind of put me off, but the guy tested for muscle activation, I don't think the ammount of active muscle fibers would change when you're tired, you would just be able to lift less weight while activating it fully because of fatigue. did what I said make sense (non english first language)?

just add another rest day

ive been running pplrpplr for 8 months and have no problem adjusting to the bumped day. leg day takes 10 mins longer than pull/push days, so it's all the same timeframe

>even if my lifts are babby shit
nope
you have to be stalling in a legitimate way.
if you are stalling because you dont eat enough, dont sleep enough, you arent consistent with your routine, etc. you shouldnt change your routing, you should change those things first, until you are doing everything right and you hit a plateau that you cant overcome after multiple resets.
usually if your lifts are baby shit it's because you are doing something wrong.

> SS
i think SS is boring, and i think you are better off doing any other routine that does train all the compounds (squat DL, BP, OP) but also has accessory movements. But that's up to u

>just eat like a maniac
just buy 1kg of chicken, cook all of it at once and put it in the fridge, it'll last a couple of days. + potatoes or rice or whatever, it's easy.

it does it just leaves me skeptical, if you can in fact grow huge biceps by just doing chinups then my bad, but i havent seen it, and it aint gonna hurt nobody that wants bigger biceps to tell them that they have to do 2 mins of bicep curls

but if you look at my first reply I said you should add curls, just that chin ups are a great bicep exercise, do both, all good man.

Disagreed on equal volume. Everytime I've run something based on UL I run out of energy before I've fully hit my upper body. PPL allows you to focus on each of those groups at a lot higher volume.

>PPL program 3 days a week
What? I don't think very many people do this, most do PPLx or PPLPPLx

ppl is for roidsters aswell fucktard

I do a brosplit natty and I have very good gains
It's what chads do

I'm convinced any program works as long as you hit a certain amount of volume per week for each muscle group or excercise. This usually means around 15-20 sets every week for each muscle group in a massing phase, and around 10-15 in a maintenence phase. Hitting this amount with a 6x/week PPL is possible. It would also be theoretically possible if you hit it all within an 8 hour period in the week, but that has practical issues like being too tired to do much other productive work as the day goes on so some sort of day split is probably more productive.

you can get bigger. You need to eat bitch. TWO SCOOPS COMON!

I know man, gotta eat big to get big. I'm workin on it. You think i should unironically do whey?

What the fuck yes, but if you're like me and actually hate eating consider doing the mass gainer to leave humanity behind if you can afford it.
Just watch yourself in the mirror and how you feel after workouts. If you start getting fat cut out a little, if your workouts don't feel hard enough, increase the weight more next time.
You'll get there brah. Started out at 5'11, 130lb, now 5'11 175lb.

Why do people buy mass gainer? Just mix your favorite simple carbohydrate into your shake.

Yeah idk it's just easy for some people. I don't personally do it. Some people are lazy and really hate eating I suppose.

Brosplits are what real men do. I see you SS bromos at the squat rack everyday, squat 3x10 and then sit on your fucking phone posting on Veeky Forums, you all look like skinny dyel faggots. Sure, you may have more "functional strength" (nerd), but my body stays proportional with respectable lifts, while you look like a fucking T-Rex.

...

thanks brah. think I'm going to start using whey this summer

people on this board like PPL.

most of the ss fags are skinny fat/fat people who have only been lifting for 1 month max

I'm in the same host as you. Think I'm going to compromise by starting nsuns 531, so I'm still progressing compounds but with a lot of assistance stuff so hopefully I can increase strength plus gain aesthetics. Look into it and tell me what you think.

this makes me feel better. OHP is so fucking hard for me. same stats at 157lbsx6'2"

Same boat* not host what the fuck

I unironically do full body 3 days a week for the last 6 months and have made excellent gains (second year training). I started with SL and then switched to PPL but lifting six days a week was killing me because of the physical nature of my job. I'm still kinda DYEL but I've made noticeable gains. I 100% believe it's frequency, as I train everything 3 days a week compared to PPL which is only twice.

If you want A E S T H E T I C S then you have to do a bodybuilder brosplit. It is what I do. It's a shitload of 3 to 4 x10 medium to heavy isolation excercises, with compounds mixed in ( all 6 bench presses on chest day, DL on both leg and back day, squats on leg day). It works great.

brosplits are stupid, no need to talk.

PPL is fine just like any other program as long as you hit your muscles consistently every 48h. That being said it may differ from person to person how long you need to recover but overall there is not magical program or something. You start with simple stuff like SS or ice cream and over the time you should gain some knowledge to be able to do your own program. Someday you realise that these programs are mostly guidelines for beginners. You dont need to do X exercise for triceps if it doesnt feel good for you, there is a ton of Y exercises that hit triceps just as good as X. Try to do fullbody or upper/lower split and you should be fine. PPL is not really for a typical beginner that doesnt have a good/solid diet or power to train 6x a week and you may easily overtrain on that program. Thats why beginners should start with fullbody like SS.

Good to hear it brahs. I also stalled on OHP for a while, only now getting it to progress again. One thing I can suggest is to def deload and then progress again.
I haven't really looked into 5/3/1, obv i've heard of it, but my current plan is to keep up SL and accesories until major stalls in compounds, then switch to PPL (all while eating as much as possible).

We're all gonna make it.

Well since I'm a skelly, I'm building a base of strength first, since that what everyone recommends and it just makes sense. Do you really think a brosplit would be more productive? and once I reach that base of strength, wouldn't ppl accomplish the same things?

Full body routine I'm running now.

A:
3x5 Squat
5xF Pullup
5x8 Bench
2x10 French Press (or dips)
2x10 Curls (one set is Hammer or Reverse, other set is regular curls)
4x12 Wrist Curl (two sets are reverse grip, two sets are regular)

B:
3x5 Romanian deadlift
5x8 Row
5x8 Overhead Press
3xF Rear delt raise
3xF Lateral Raise
3x8 heavy Shrugs

AxBxAxx then BxAxBxx

Essentially A is full body plus arms, B is full-body plus shoulders/traps.

ppl is fucking great

They're both fine, they're just not good starting points for a beginner

I'm doing PPL. I rub my Pussy two days in a row and then I rub my Labia the third. I'm getting really great results and I feel good too.

PPLxPPLx is god tier, I think anyone who is arguing against that doesn't spend enough time at the gym. If you're only working out 3 days a week in ANY format you are wasting your time.

pretty sure gods don't need rest times or splits. they just wish themselves stronger. routine goes like WWWWWWWWWW

They're almost never presented as an actual program. People almost always list a bunch of exercises assigned to some days and call it a program.

The biggest problem with PPL is you end up skipping L. Just how much leg work are you actually doing?

>SS doesn't have accessories

Why don't you read the fucking book?

PPL is shit, the only people who think it's good are not lifting heavy.

Does anyone have any experience with PPLxULx?
Thinking about trying it

>Why don't you read the fucking book?
because im not retarded and if i want to look at the routine i just go to startingstrength.com/get-started/programs and look at how it only has 3 exercises per day, fucking lol

go meme somewhere else

>being this stupid

> literally the mark rippetoe's website
> disqualifies it for no reason

just because u did SS and ended up looking like shit u dont have to make other ppl do the same thing

how is

U-Intensity
L-Intensity
x
Push-Volume
Pull-Volume
Legs-Volume

im enjoying it.
heres my routine

I do the upper lower day main lifts as 5/3/1

im on the second week of my second cycle, its pretty fucking enjoyable, honestly.

how have you been using rep ranges for the 5×5 or 8×3 stuff?

for 5x5 I do 90 percent of my highest set on the 5 rep day of 5/3/1
for the 8x3 I do the same with the 3 rep day.

if volume is = hypertrophy is the same

that being said, PPL and other splits have higher volume due to higher reps

the strength gains made in those rep ranges will stall fast as fuck.

PPL is basically a hypertrophy phase.

to argue strength and hypertrophy is silly, because you need to do both

My bench is 155 while my ohp is 90
Get on my level

the split really makes no big difference.
training a muscle 3x a week is only slightly superior to training 1x per week.
high volume is more important

Some cycles I do fullbody three time a week and light oly technique work on the other days.
Does that count?

if you switch before 1/2/3/4 you're unironically a bitch

kek, m8

high volume natty once a week will do nothing except break down and eliminate any muscle you might have

as good as any other PPL, PP, PHUL, UL, fullbody or other program. Just go and lift, man. Leave this thread, save yourself.

That's why you alternate days.

You have the ability to recover fast if you just eat and sleep well. No point in doing shit only 1 time a week.

How tiny is your chest?

how do you do a full body workout that does every muscle group 3 times a week?

By not being a pussy.

If you have to alternate exercises its not 100% fullbody

thinking of hopping on arnolds big six instead and getting off SS. anyone have any experience on it?

OK, so your dad's out. Does anyone else have advice who isn't this fag's pussy dad?

Nothing wrong with bro splits or ppl. It's just not the most efficient routine for total noobs.

I did SL, and got my lifts roughly to 1/2/3/4pl8 and I have no regrets. I now do ppl/ppl and that strength carry over is real.

I agree he is out, I still run a full body 3 times a week and run on my off days. Maybe you should be more specific on exactly what you mean by "how".

This board is dominated by midgets with complexes who compensate by lifting "big numbers"

There is nothing wrong with PPL for those of us who are sane enough to realize aethetics > strength.

Thats false, and the number 1 cause of overtraining. Your body cannot repair everything in 48 hours, and damage stacks up over time.

You have to take deload weeks on any program, and no it doenst negatively effect gains.

>strength carry over is real.
No. Its not.

You would have looked better had you just gone straight to hypertrophy training.

You would have looked better if you transitioned at 10 instead of 45, toots.

>PPL is shit, the only people who think it's good are not lifting heavy
Everybody doesn't want to do powerlifting

And how are people claiming that you don't get enough rest with a PPLx routine? I'm cutting on a 1000kcal deficit while doing cardio on the rest day and have still made some gains on mine, albeit much slower than I did while bulking. You go hard on the one or two main compound exercises each day and the rest are just accessories where you use short rests between sets and focus on volume and keeping good form instead of lifting the maximum amount of weight you're able to. You have three days of recovery before training the same muscle group again. It's your own fault if you go so hard on your bicep curls that you can't perform while squatting the next day