hey Veeky Forums I am arguin with this vegan chick that soy is bad for you, got any cool scientific articles?
I was hoping to find some gyno shit, but the only mention i got was of some guy getting gyno after drinking a 3/4 of a gallon of soy milk. He was probably doing SS too.
Other urls found in this thread:
academic.oup.com
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
jamanetwork.com
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ajcn.nutrition.org
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>I am arguin with this vegan chick that soy is bad for you, got any cool scientific articles?
Are you saying that you already formed the opinion that soy is bad for you before reading any studies claiming this? And you were confident enough in this opinion to get into an argument over it?
Soy doesn't raise estrogen levels like you've been told. The only studies that has seen estrogen levels going up when consuming soy involves eating over 10 blocks of tofu a day, and nobody does that.
On the other hand, meat and dairy raises estrogen more than soy ever will.
Fuck off with your anti vegan bullshit if you ask other people to link you "cool scientific articles", obviously you know nothing about the topic.
>think soy is BAD(tm)
>doesn't have proof of it
>has no idea why
>doesn't know how to use google
>argues on the internet
I am proud son.
nah, I couldn't give less of a fuck about it, I am just fucking with a vegan tumbl chick for the fun of it.
Like litteraly no fuck about soy, never once in my life has I came to a point in my life where I would need to know that, I wouldn't even know where to buy some. Apart from soy sauce of course, but I don't even know if it really contains soy.
So why are you arguing with her? You're literally being wrong in your argument so I really don't see the point in arguing.
>10 blocks of tofu a day
We are on a fittness board here, if you are not eating at least 4kkcal a day, then fuck off you sedentary fuck.
Virtually all soy is GMO. Since your friend is a vegan, you can be confident that this will also freak her out, since most vegans are organophiles too.
If this alone isn't enough, explain to her that it's modified to be tolerant to Roundup, which contains antibiotics that are endocrine disruptors and cause crops to become infertile. Explain to her that plants and humans have a common ancestor and share some of the same physiology. Then show her a graph of increased use of Roundup vs. declining fertility rates in countries where Roundup is used extensively.
Organic soy products are generally only found in healthstores and are expensive af.
>does soy sauce have soy in it? who knows lol
You might as well just make stuff up, you're not going to be making a good argument
Dude just admit she is right, you have no clue what you're doing.
For fun, I just told you.
Is this the affect the soy has on your brain?
Good goy eat your soy.
>thing has something in its name
>must have that ingredient
yep, cause that's exactly how product name works
Captain Crunch must contain a dried up cutt up old chocolate captain
As a vegan, this.
Soy isn't good for you but it doesn't raise estrogen if consumed in normal portions.
Idk I stay away from soy.
Like I said, more than 10 blocks a day or your estrogen will not go up. Mammal estrogen is way worse than phytoestrogens.
Also I bet you're on of those retards who drink out of plastic bottles and then go around and tell people how bad soy is for your estrogen levels.
Well to be fair, duck sauce doesn't have duck in it.
Is soy fucking with your brain vegan-kun?
How many times do I have to repeat myself? I don't care about the argument itself.
Why is this so hard to understand?
Looking at you guys convinced me to avoid soy products in the future.
I mean I did stumble upon the study on how soy hinders cognitive abilities, but I dismissed it since the tested groups were insignificant, maybe I shouldn't have done that.
Phytoestrogens are plant chemicals that look like estrogen but aren't. There's a few different kinds, all of which are very weak, and some can bind to estrogen receptors and block real estrogen from being absorbed. It's stupid to be afraid of phytoestrogens just because you see the word estrogen in the name. To avoid them, you'd have to just eat meat and dairy, and in that case you'd be eating estradiol, which is very potent.
She is actually ok with gmo.
Weird I know. But I think it's because she is ok with gmo and soy since it is popular to be against them.
>does captain crunch taste crunchy? lol someone help me out
I try and limit my exposure to xenoestrogen as much as I can, same with phytoestrogen. Keep being a vegan fag and eat your soy though and you'll end up wanting to chop your dick off I'm sure.
Eating 10+ blocks of tofu a day will raise your estrogen, that's 3500 calories of tofu. I don't even consume soy so I think I'll be fine, thanks though.
I think it's more the fact that he knows so little about soy that he doesn't even know if soy sauce contains it
Phytoestrogen barely effects human estrogen levels.
I'm not even vegan but there is significant health benefits, saying something like that is both pointless and retarded, you obnoxious cunt.
Well it tastes like shit, so knowing less about it is a good thing
you are stupid af
OP here.
I know I was fuckign around mostly, but, I will admit that I found studies on health benefits with this hole bla bla less cancer shit, there are also studies showing increase of some other cancers.
My opinion - soy is just like any other fuckign food out there.
i still wouldn't make it my primary protein source or anything since
a) Fuck those studies done on normies that eat 2k kkcal, that tells me nothing
b) it is slow digesting
Lots of soy shills here today.
I really don't understand this thread. You're arguing with a girl about whether soy is bad or good for you. You took a stand that it was bad with no knowledge behind you and know you're asking us for "cool scientific articles".
>I don't care about the argument itself
If you want to "win" the argument then you actually need to provide proof. If you wanted to have fun then why not just play mental gymnastics and fuck around with her. Why would need science articles?
>soy sauce has soy in it
It seems you're the type of person that can't argue without hard facts, but at the same time you don't give a fuck about facts. If she didn't provide any evidence of her own why not just say bullshit claims?
Would be interesting to see those people, claiming that meat affects your estrogen level more that soy does posting, posting some articles about those claims.
>I am arguin with this vegan chick
`just don't
>Why would need science articles?
She is actually not that retarded, that's why.
If she were stupid arguing wouldn't be that fun anyway.
Having sound articles would be cool for my side, otherwise I l just claim "this isn't natural, we don't know the long term effect, this hasn't been studied long enough, but obviously there would be a connection since this is so unnatural, the body knows how to handle hormone changes from meat, but it doesn't have the same mechanics for soy" or something along those lines.
I just though Veeky Forums might have some "soy gives gyno" articles at hand, which would be cool, since that would help me sell the "soy is for man who want to grow vagina point" which will just turn to argument what a reall man should be like and that's the argument that would be much more fun.
increased beef consumption in japan has led to more hormone-related cancers
academic.oup.com
Just tell her about omega 3
And the fact that plant sources are literally just not the same as meat sources and cant be interchanged
this isn't really a scientific article.
That's just speculation on correlation.
nah, we aren't arguing about whether vegan is good or bad.
Also can't you just supplement that shit anyway?
Besides you don't have to be vagan to not get omega 3.
Some studies have shown correlation between tofu consumption and brain atrophy in men.
This is only in men, so vegan women have no excuse, they are just naturally retarded.
They also do not know the causation of this.
What we do know is lower testosterone also causes brain atrophy in men, so we generally assume that is the cause.
Personally, I think that a tofu-heavy vegan diet is less likely to be varied in its content, and may be leading to deficiencies, such as the building blocks for cholesterol, which are vital to testosterone production.
In short, you're wrong, there is nothing wrong with soy in moderation.
But she is also wrong, because she is a vegan.
Virtually all soy is GMO, but almost no tofu /soy foods bought in the US are. The vast majority of soybeans go into processed foods that cut expensive olive oil for soy oil and for soy lecithin.
>In short, you're wrong, there is nothing wrong with soy in moderation.
>But she is also wrong, because she is a vegan.
Yep, I know smart anons will get it.
Thanks for that atrophy stuff, I will try to find something to back that up.
Know, knew. Fuck. The irony.
are you stupid?
soy is very good for you, even more so for women. Breast cancer prevention and more good things.
i'll never understand why people have an irrational fear of a bean that people have been eating for thousands of years.
>are you stupid?
Well, I am not the one eating soy, so... no?
soys not bad for u lol. phytoestrogens do not affect human estrogen levels, ur fighting a losing arguement with soy, pick something else about vegans to debate about, im not vegan btw.
>forms position based on no prior research
>has literally no arguments and admitted it
>everyone in thread telling you soy isn't unhealthy
>hurrr no you're the retarded ones
Off yourself you knuckle dragging mongoloid
i buy organic soy products and nigga it was a dollar 75 for a brick of tofu. i don't drink soymilk but when i do it's about 4 dollars. not expensive and from kroger.
it really is funny, just like "fruit is bad".
Oh my god, eating more fruit would prevent millions of deaths.
the bait is getting weaker
lolololololololol. meat and dairy get the most money from the government, dumb faggot. it's fully subsidized.
This.
What's even more fucking hilarious is that meat-eaters are probably consuming more soy than most. What the fuck do they think gets fed to the animals that they're eating?
TOPFUCKINGLEL.
To be fair most of the food given to the animals you eat is ground up GMO soy, they probably get tons more of it than the average vegan who eats tofu/mock meat once a day. but most mock meat isn't made with large amounts of soy anyways, it's normally wheat protein.
all memes aside it does make you low test because it contains estrogen mimicing compounds
As many others already said, soy is perfectly fine and doesn't raise estrogen in humans. No idea how that became a myth but it's retarded.
Also you are pathetic for asking this here. Are you actually too retarded to find the science yourself?
Soy increases estrogen and decreases testosterone.
>one person study
>ceasation of vegan diet resulted in testosterone rise
> therefore soy consumption is related to hypogonadism
What a fucking retard wrote that
>7th day Adventist
>Vegetarians who consume a shit tone of soy as a protein source
>Men live around 8 years more than other Americans in average
Really activates your almonds
Yeah that's called a case study.
Yes that's what happened. The subject started eating meat and stopped eating soy, this caused his testosterone to rise and his erectile dysfunction to disappear.
I don't have ed so it's cool for me to eat soy then
You'll get it just like that guy and other vegans
>isoflavone has the chemical structure similar to estrogen
>isoflavone has more binding power to estrogen receptor than estrogen itself and will be favored by our body
>yet isoflavone has a lot less estrogenic effect
>your real estrogen will be bind with fiber and pooped out
tfw you're vegan and is manlier than meathead retards who's too stupid to understand and drink mammal estrogen in whey protein powder instead, TOP KEK!
>that's called a case study
A case study is just a published anecdote. There's nothing scientific about it.
I legit have a phobia of soy beans. Soy milk makes me projectile vomit. Absolutely disgusting.
Your case study is an anecdote
I must shit blood and vomit if I eat soy products.
Why are you trying to white knight some unknown girl, that isn't even in the conversation? How pathetic are you?
If all of that happened to that man, why wouldn't it happen to another one? Makes you think
I ate and drank soy everyday for 26 years and I'm fine. Your vegan friend is right.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA so fucking retarded. Soy is in no way bad for you its actually really fucking good for you especially if you're a female prone to cancer.
daidzein the phytoestrogen in soy actually is a lower level estrogen than e2. because weak estrogens like daidzein will compete with stronger estrogens like estradiol for available receptor sites to "bind" to. By binding to the receptor sites daidzein then "blocks" the stronger estrogens from binding to and activating receptor sites. With the daidzein isolflavone attached, estrogen receptor sites remain inactive.
How insecure in your belief in vaganism must you be when you must go around telling everybody how great veganism is, even after it was explicitly stated that the argument isn't even about what is "true" and who is "right"
I wish I didn't see this thread. I've been reading Beyond Meat products for some time and I just checked if they had the USDA label because herp it's vegetarian must be healthy.
What do you vegans /vegetarians eat for protein? I can't win
what's with vegans and unsolicited advice
>hey guys do you have any studies on why vegans are bad for you
>NO VEGAN IS GOOD YOU STUPID
I used to drink lots of soymilk and I started growing tits.
Stopped drinking soy, and my nips stopped growing (they still puffy though)
soy interferes with thyroid function.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
babys get titties
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
longer menstrual cycle for adults who got soy as children
jamanetwork.com
soy leads to adhd and brain function problems
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
soy increases breast cancer chance.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ajcn.nutrition.org
isoflavones activate estrogen receptors. etc
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Can't find the full text, seems purely theoretical.
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Theoretical and in rats.
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
> fed exclusively soy-based formula were found to be 100 to 200 times higher than plasma levels in infants fed breast milk and dairy-based formulas, and 13,000 to 22,000 times higher than plasma estradiol concentration in early life
>these infants are exposed to a daily intake of isoflavones that is 4- to 13-fold higher than that reported to exert significant physiological effects on the hormonal regulation of women's menstrual cycles
>making their role as endocrine disruptors questionable.
Well duh they were feeding those infants absolutely massive amounts of soy and even the study says isoflavones seems safe.
>jamanetwork.com
>Exposure to soy formula does not appear to lead to different general health or reproductive outcomes than exposure to cow milk formula
>Although the few positive findings should be explored in future studies, our findings are reassuring about the safety of infant soy formula.
Now I'm getting bored, your cherry-picked shit studies are irrelevant.
faggot, at most I searched like 5 seconds in google.
I've seen enough mutated soy freaks in my life to see the dangers.
I've seen mongol twin brothers, one was a 6'5 and was easily 110kg pure muscle with a huge dick, he only ate fresh blood and raw milk.
The other brother was 5'8 manlet twink, with not even half the dick size of his brother.
In the last few years my nation allowed soy in nearly all products, since that moment I've seen boys and girls with tits at the age of 10.
Her 6 years older sister started to grow tits at the same time.
Go fuck yourself.
>faggot, at most I searched like 5 seconds in google.
No wonder your "science" is so comprehensive and convincing. Some anecdotal shit afterwards, truly 10/10 reasoning. And you close with an insult, inspiring.
Vegan diets decreasing testosterone(thereby not balancing out estrogen levels) probably has more to do with the nonexistent amount of cholesterol in vegan diets, which you need in order to create testosterone. The testicles will make their own cholesterol in a pinch, but can't produce all of it on its own indefinitely.
Vegan diets additionally have trouble getting enough calories which makes it even harder to gain muscle.
Soy isn't bad for you, and soybeans have some pretty great macros even if you're not vegan.
Testicles do not produce cholesterol you moron.
you are on Veeky Forums.
>Babies get titties
I don't know about you but I've never seen a man with gyno because he ate soy, it's always due to extreme dairy and animal product consumption since before puberty.
In fact people with soy in their diet usually have higher testosterone and lower estrogen than people in omnivore diets.
Your own body produces cholestrol, and it's shown that high fat or cholestrol diets diminuish total free testosterone.
>people actually shilling for the kike dairy and animal product industry
Daily reminder that only the genetic elite and steroidfags don't have to worry about any of this shit, but average people who don't rely on exogonous anabolic hormones are forever fucked if they don't eat a plant based diet.
you know every body of medical evidence says the EXACT opposite of what you just stated? vegetarian and vegan diets are directly correlated to delayed puberty in females.