Why aren't you water fasting?

2 days into a 5 day water fast here. Feeling good. Taking lite salt / magnesium supplements in addition to water. No cravings at all. At around 16% body fat / 35 lbs of fat.

Sounds like bullshit right? Read up on this doctor who has monitored over 10,000 patients in his fasting clinic

>"Short-term fasting can have a great benefit, but long-term fasting can have a geometric effect. So the farther you go into fasting, within the person’s capacities and reserves, the more profound the effect appears to be."

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684131/

>But user my muscles will waste away!

Nope. You fell for the food Jew. Pic related shows marginal protein loss from fasting (which can easily be regained)

>The metabolic response to fasting involves a series of hormonal and metabolic adaptations leading to protein conservation.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11147801/

>hyper increased fat loss almost as good Dnp
>Plethora of health and spiritual benefits

What's your excuse Veeky Forums? I've been taking a week off lifting and will be fasting with light walking as my primary exercise. Here's what I've noticed in the first 24 hours

>sense of smell is more vivid. I appreciate smells now, especially food smells
>Mental clarity. I feel less hyper, very calm and focused
>Body weight dropping--i already look better

Prolonged fasting general.

Other urls found in this thread:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3946160/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684131/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11147801/
jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2623528
youtu.be/tIuj-oMN-Fk
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25178568/
pnas.org/content/104/49/19285.full.pdf
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

got some exams coming up and i want to be able to think clearly til they're over. After that I will fast for 1 week

Day 9 of a 14 day fast here. I'm feeling fantastic

this, along with keto, really looks like a collective effort to make idiots kill themselves by going into it without proper research and/or guidance.

Howso? Please provide evidence to back up your claims.

There are people who shouldn't fast

>The very young
>the very old
>Underweight people

You aren't in that category though. Reap the health rewards bro

Bump

What was your starting weight and what are you at now?

Fasting is great but last time I did a 6 day fast and ended up gaining more weight back. Planning a 21 day fast soon

hour 25 of my fast, planned it so i would sleep through the 16-24 hour cravings.

About to go pick up some lite salt and magnesium myself, any brand you recommend?

It doesn't really matter. I picked up standard lite salt from the market and got pic related for my magnesium. Smart water is also apparently "infused with electrolytes" but it's best to add salt for sure. One serving of lite salt is only 15% of your daily recommended sodium and 10% potassium.

Bruh. Control yourself. Keep it low carb. Don't eat bread / fried shit / soda

Can you stop talking like a retarded /v/ermin? WHAT'S YOUR EXCUSE? WHY AREN'T YOU WATER FASTING?

Why don't you kill yourself, you fucking imbecile?

you know, it helps to have done a little research on the anti- position before you say stupid shit like this, man

It's called motivation. Perhapes you should look up the definition.

I think you should take your own advice, thanks. Clearly the water fasting has made you incapable of forming coherent sentences.

i could google this but i want to hear it from my favorite scooby appreciation board. what is waterfasting and how do you progress through the day being in this diet

I was just joshing around with that response since yours was so rude. Next time I make a /fasting/ general discussion I'll nix the buzzwords -- Thank you for the constructive feedback.
Distract yourself with shit other than eating while nourishing your body with electrolytes / sodium / potassium / magnesium. That's really about it. Also don't exercise use strenuously

Have you done a 1 week fast before

Yeah, didn't mean to be rude. Was a bit triggered after seeing all those "why haven't you hacked your 3DS" threads on /v/, and now another "why haven't you x" thread here. Sorry bro, good luck fasting.

FYI I'm 48 hours into my fast and feel good. Only needed 7 hours of sleep and woke up at 530 am with loads of energy now I don't know what to do with my day lol

I walk 10 or more miles a day.

I would fucking die within a few days of this shit.

No worries man. I haven't been on /v/ in forever, I think I learned that vocabulary from /g/. Also impressed to see that someone on this website apologized lol. You fasting too?

Nah, I workout four times a week and am already on a cut, so I probably won't do a water fast any time soon. Plus, you know, I have a social life to maintain.

When you're on a water fast, which days are the absolute worst in terms of hunger? Does it get easier?

I can't fast for more than 48 hours since I'm already 130 lbs ~12%BF (even have abs veins) and I will get the cold of death and wont be able to leave bed. Generally my feet goes numb, I get scared and eat.

I wonder if having a bit more of fat/muscle helps not felling cold/mega weak. No way caveman was able to cross bad weather or hunt while fasting if they was 12% BF you body just start getting numb and you feel vertiginous.

I have a social life to maintain too, when I go out to eat with my friends I just say I'm not hungry and they never question it. The first 24 hours are tough. I find that if I front load the fast with a week's worth of veggies it's much easier. Plus I'm not taking EC stack for the first time and this is easily my smoothest fast ever

Not him but in a 48 hours fast from 8 to 14 you feel really hungry. After that you completely forget that food exists and get in attention mode. You can't do much anyway because getting physical will make you pass out. You can't do mental work properly (even if you feel alert) because you tire out too quickly. I fasted in the weekends but was forced to stop. I need to study in the weekends and this is a bad mix.

So for those who do lots of drugs, how do you work in your fasts? And do you feel your body "detoxing" the drugs / at least feel the effects of withdrawals from your DOC while your body resets itself?

I'm talking weed, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol. Personally I'm a speed guy. I feel like it's gonna take a lot of fasting to get the amount of dregs I've done lately out of my system.

I'm guessing the results aren't good. (taking EC stack on a fast)

>I just say I'm not hungry and they never question it
kek, you are incredibly lucky then. My friends would be concerned, or even offended, if I ever said that. Different culture, I guess.
What's an EC stack?

>Nope. You fell for the food Jew. Pic related shows marginal protein loss from fasting (which can easily be regained)
oh boy... you're forgetting that eating replenishes protein loss so even though the body drops the need for it you're not eating so you're losing all of it, also go back to /pol/ with your jew memes

say your body is eating 450 kcal/day but you're eating enough protein then you lose nothing
now say your body is eating 250 kcal/day but you're not eating, you're losing the whole 250 kcal a day

>which can easily be regained
yeah, lets lose muscle for a shortcut... if your goal is to gain muscle then you're taking steps backwards
>Plethora of health and spiritual benefits
???
>sense of smell is more vivid. I appreciate smells now, especially food smells
because your body is deprived of food, you'll be more sensitive to food and food smells
>Mental clarity. I feel less hyper, very calm and focused
because you have less energy you won't be as hyper and your body will try to use as little as it can
>Body weight dropping--i already look better
no shit, you're not eating food

The way this kind of shit gets popular is there's one or two experts that go against what everyone else has already decided is the right thing to do and idiots latch on and spout they have a professional on their side, for this it's dr fung or something, but if you've lived long enough then you've witnessed this same shit many times already
>fasting
>juice cleanse
>vegan (for weight loss, nothing wrong with ethical reasons)
>paleo
>atkins
>keto
>liquid diet
but the thing that is proven on every diet is that consuming a lower amount of calories than your body needs will burn fat, also sugar is bad

yeah, I'm not in school anymore. I graduated a year or two ago and now I'm working and making mobile games. My job is fun. So it's not very mentally stressful
normally I take allergy medicine, I've ceased it completely and my allergies have it seems to return. I also used to take Adderall about once a week or so. The fasted state is a similar State Adderall for me, but I can't imagine it being much easier for you since you're on more drugs and alcohol than I am. Good luck

A few experts? I just linked those studies because they're more readable. Here's a meta analysis comprised of over 112 studies that speak of the benefits (and potential cons) of fasting.

Pros: fights cancer, arthritis, great for weight control, anti inflammatory

>"prolonged fasting their effect on reducing IGF-1, insulin and glucose levels, and increasing IGFBP1 and ketone body levels could generate a protective environment that reduces DNA damage and carcinogenesis, while at the same time creating hostile conditions for tumor and pre-cancerous cells"

>""

In humans, one of the best demonstrations of the beneficial effects of long-term fasting lasting one to 3 weeks is in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis (RA). In agreement with the results in rodents, there is little doubt that during the period of fasting both inflammation and pain are reduced in RA patients"

>"

most tissues can utilize fatty acids for energy, during prolonged periods of fasting, the brain relies on the ketone bodies β-hydroxybutyrate and acetoacetate in addition to glucose for energy consumption"

Cons: fasting can lead to heart palpitations, nausea, dizziness if you fuck up your nutrients. If you have a muscle wasting disease (like aids or HIV) you shouldn't be fasting.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3946160/

I agree with you, there's loads of misinformation out there about dieting like meme juice fasts, but water fasting isn't one of them.

And the ratio of muscle loss to fat loss is marginal dude, did you ignore my graph? And please provide evidence of your claim that calories in / out is more feasible than fasting. Because my research showed that your body will just adapt to your daily intake on a cut over time and degrade its TDEE. This is why low carb is a good way to stay lean year round.

why are you shilling this shit every day?
>marginal protein loss
kek
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684131/
>chiropractic run facility
this is an interview, not a study
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11147801/
this is so that you don't die from diaphragm atrophy and other wasting diseases, not so that you stay jack3d and swole

let's say i would like to start water fasting. How i do it? i have to start a ketogenic diet to feel less hunger? can i workout during the fast?

Check out the meta analysis I posted a few replies up. It's totally okay for retaining muscle. I'll post a before / after in a few days as well

that isn't a meta analysis, it's a review

OP here. Just do it, pussy.

I've answered all your questions already, read the thread boyo

It also doesn't contain useful comparisons to isocaloric non-fasting diets, nor does it mention protein retention

lets return to your original links:
The present study demonstrates that phenylalanine flux (reflecting proteolysis) increases in healthy young men after 40 h of fasting. Tyrosine flux did not change, presumably because tyrosine flux represents protein breakdown as well as tyrosine appearance from phenylalanine hydroxylation. Our phenylalanine flux results support reports of an increase in leucine flux after 1.25 days of fasting in healthy subjects (9) and an even more pronounced increase after 3 days of fasting (4,41).

or how about a study on alternate day fasting
jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2623528

"Alternate-day fasting did not produce superior adherence, weight loss, weight maintenance, or cardioprotection vs daily calorie restriction."

no. When i say one week i mean that'll be the goal. If i need to break fast before then i will. I'm already on keto so my body's pretty adapted for it i think.

Check out this lecture, it answers the questions you presented.

youtu.be/tIuj-oMN-Fk

Cliffs:

>Caloric deficits (less calories in than out) are not maintainable in the long term because your metabolism will adapt and lower its TDEE to match your calories in over time.
>Fat loss is more about hormones like insulin and glucose control rather than the simple "eat less, all calories are the same" wives tale
>Fasting utilizes your fat reserves for energy, it's essentially like a faster, more will power cutting sequence

Fasting > caloric deficit because it doesn't lower your metabolism, and you get your results faster. You'll lose a bit more muscle compared to a standard cut, but again, it's marginal.

>Jason Fung
ahahahaha
come on man now I know you're fucking with me

He makes decent points. I'd be interested in your counter arguments

No, he doesn't. Are you brand new to the nutrition field and don't know who he and Gary Taubes are yet?

>did you ignore my graph?
I based my numbers off your graph, you're the one that doesn't seem to understand

Bitch nigger provide evidence against what he's saying instead of hurr durr have u heard of blah blah blah

ironically, fasting improves cognition. i'm not saying it would behoove you to start fasting now, but if you were already used to fasting then it would have helped you in your exams.

I'm not spending time watching your meme video by a nephrologist who believes that you can cure diabetes with a crash diet.

thanks for the rensponse buddy! i saw ur convo with the other dude. makes me feel good we're not too into the whole shitposting stuff like other boards. ya'll alright in my book

If you have enough body fat to be trying to lose fat, then no, you wouldn't.

>implying he's the only doctor who claims that you can cure diabetes with fasting and/or keto

dumbass

It's not curing diabetes. The diet REVERSES the symptoms. Similar to a cancer patient in remission (we all know they're still prolly gonna die of cancer, but we often refer to remission as cured to be nice). Obviously if they binge on skittles after their fast their diabetes will flair up.

1) the calories in and calories out "theory" is irrelevant to fat gain or fat loss, and that carbs and insulin is the reason why people gain weight.

He argues that insulin makes the fat cells soak up energy with no regards to the energy needs of the rest of the body. Due to this the cause/effect is reversed, the reason people "eat too much and move too little" are because fat cells are being greedy and taking away all the energy.

2) Low-carb diets somehow magically bypass the laws of thermodynamics

He argues that carbs/insulin cause metabolic down-regulation and increased appetite, this definitely work within the laws of thermodynamics:

Health experts think that the first law is relevant to why we get fat because they say to themselves and then to us, as the The New York Times did, “Those who consume more calories than they expend in energy will gain weight.” This is true. It has to be. To get fatter and heavier, we have to overeat. We have to consume more calories than we expend. That’s a given. But thermodynamics tells us nothing about why this happens, why we consume more calories than we expend. It only says that if we do, we will get heavier, and if we get heavier, then we did.

No, no he says cured.
>the rest of this shit copy pasted from reddit
jesus christ you shill fuck off

>no longer require exogenous insulin
>diabetes isn't cured

??

>eat low carb and fast
>Never have diabetes symptoms again

It's about as close to cured as they're gonna get in today's climate. You cant deny the reversal of symptoms, and I pasted that argument because I didn't feel like typing to your close minded ass. Your only methods of argument have been personal attacks, not providing evidence of the contrary to my arguments.

And what am I shilling? Fasting? Really? What do I have to gain from that

Uhh... what? Their insulin resistance is reversed through fasting. How is that not a cure?

It is unironically not worth my time as a nutritional scientist to take your arguments seriously. Here's a taste:
>He argues that carbs/insulin cause metabolic down-regulation and increased appetite
Insulin is an anorexigenic hormone, which means it decreases appetite. It is also anabolic as hell, which means that it increases metabolism, not downregulating it.

I'm not going to continue since these are basic points of physiology that you've started off with, so anything further is built on retardation

EC Stack is Ephedrine/caffeine. From my experience you would want to take an aspirin with it as that promotes better blood flow.

Essentially it's just speed, causes your blood to pump faster due to the mix of the two drugs together. You can find ephedrine in broncaide, which you can buy at any Walgreens, albeit having to use human interaction to get it.

Ephedrine is one of the main ingredients in meth or something, so that's why it's somewhat of a controlled substance now.

>Anabolic as hell
>the hormone that literally stores fat if it isn't low

Pick one. Checkmate if I do say so myself.

>Storing fat isn't anabolic
Are you retarded

with respect to weight lifting and body building, is anabolic means related to building up muscle.

Your goals don't include losing fat?

>Dieting herpes left its containment in /fat/ and is now actively trying yo get people killed

I thought I told you to go see a doctor about your asshurt, not get jamal to make it worse

Sasuga user, we're talking about metabolism. Besides, AKT activation drives mTOR and protein synthesis, especially in muscle.

Blood sugar spikes from carbs will increase your appetite, not the insulin though. The idea is that if you are on a deficit you're going to eventually fuck it up because your metabolism will eventually match your caloric deficit as caloric output. As the line gets closer you're more likely to fuck up and overeat and regain the weight. That's why people don't cut for prolonged periods of time. Fasting is essentially a faster way of cutting because obviously you can't do it for 3 months at a time like a cut. It's also muscle sparing, and if it works for me I don't see a reason not to do it other than missing going to the gym / rock climbing.

>increased blood sugar will increase your appetite
do you even know how malonyl-coa sensing in the hypothalamus works?

No, of course you don't. You've been quoting jason fung of all people.
>It's also muscle sparing
No it isn't. Again, from your own link
The present study demonstrates that phenylalanine flux (reflecting proteolysis) increases in healthy young men after 40 h of fasting.

>not drinking water for 2 days
Are you people fucking stupid?

>>not drinking water for 2 days

Are you fucking stupid?

OP said he's doing a "water fast"
That means not drinking water

It's muscle sparing in the same way you can muscle spare during a cut. There is MARGINAL loss of muscle during week long fasts. You're not gonna lose all your gains.

"In retrospect, the discovery of the malonyl-CoA regulatory system has had an impact far beyond the issue of ketogenesis. The system is active in the hypothalamus, where it contributes to the regulation of food intake, in the heart, where fatty acid oxidation influences the outcome of myocardial infarction, and in the liver, where nonalcoholic steatosis may be diminished by increased fatty acid oxidation, and it is relevant in obesity, where increased mitochondrial function may cause weight loss."

So m-coa regulated fatty acid synthesis?

Not him, but why is Fung not credible?

Nah, water fast is a colloquial term meaning a fast where you're only allowed to drink water & salt for electrolytes / potassium

He's credible, just that he sometimes uses shifty vocabulary that sets off bullshit alarms like "curing" diabetes with fasting, when in reality its just diminishing the symptoms (the user still has diabetes during the fast, just with virtually no symptoms). Check out the video I posted and lemme know your thoughts

it regulates food intake by shutting it down in response to high blood sugar. not increasing cravings like you claim
>marginal loss of muscle
increased over regular caloric deficit
he and taubes have an interest in selling their books on keto diets. they specifically blame carbohydrates and insulin as the major factors behind weight gain rather than energy imbalance. Thankfully they get BTFO every time they write blog posts (not peer-reviewed articles generally) by actual nutritional science researchers, here's an entertaining one in pic related.
>he's credible
no

anyways I'm out, I don't care what you do to yourself but stop making these gay threads that misrepresent the actual science

Kek

Please provides links to studies proving your claims.

What do you have to say about this

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25178568/

"The low-carbohydrate diet was more effective for weight loss and cardiovascular risk factor reduction than the low-fat diet. "

Seems to support those docs.

Bump

Do these studies account for water weight loss?

It's another of the "fat dyles with no muscle mass advocate retarded diets based on meaningless studies".

Do you get payed for this?

>ye but look at this STUDY omg
>look its so logical, your body WANTS TO KEEP ITS MUSCLE and thats why it breaks down fat instead
>and look, growth hormone release, meaing you CANNOT LOSE MUSCLE!! HEHE

This meme has to die already, god fucking hell.

Pussy

This is me after my fast. Wanna say dyel to my face bitch?

alright one more response cause I'm a glutton for punishment
which claims? malonyl-coa suppressing food intake? that's pretty basic at this point
pnas.org/content/104/49/19285.full.pdf
>what do you have to say about this
"Neither diet included a specific calorie or energy goal."
worthless study

How about the fact that low carb in general proved better results than low fat? Why are you linking me a 6 page study with no context or significant quotes pulled?

You're asking for information on malonyl coa signalling, that paper provides a nice introduction
And the fact that uncontrolled diets differed when you don't control for caloric intake means that low carb is easier to maintain low calories on, not that it has some insulin voodoo going on, which we've known forever

>marginal protein loss

You mean 50% protein loss

Right, I'm sure you did that all with repetitive periods of water fasting.

A medical doctor who specialises in neph & endocrine disorders and sells his books at loss is not credible?

Who exactly is credible?

You?

Do not fucking fast! My grandfather is extremely healthy (ex army, retired cop, lives in NC and tends his small farm with only hand equipment.). He went on a 30 day water fast for religious reasons and lost 75 percent of his hearing. You guys aren't taking anything into account besides body image/muscle/fat. Your organs suffer from not having the fully correct ammount of nutrients (even vitamins aren't good because they're not what we would normally eat, it's garbage shit in a pill). You get psychological effects that will fuck you up to.

This is the only warning I'm going to post.

yeah or maybe it was the fact he's a fuckin senile old man who went deaf because thats want old men do.

how many 20 year olds do you think are goin deaf because they don't eat for a few days?

>grandfather

That was his mistake, its already been determined and said if you are old don't fast

It's just a few retards spamming these threads right. I really don't see the reason though, can't even shill anything.

>sells his books at loss is not credible?
Your reason for believing him is that he's an idiot?

Seems you can't get your angle straight.

Is he a jew shill selling out?

Or is he an idiot because he's selling at loss?

> What is cognitive dissonance?

When did he say that he is not credible because he is a Jew shilling his book?

>what is reading comprehension

It's hard using ones brain while on retarded meme diets right?

Perhaps in the comment I initially replied to.

Little too fast on the keyboard there, big guy ;).

>tfw can't fast because of stress eating.

>man makes money while doing something he believes in

I don't see what the problem is.

Gotta have a way to discredit someone without actually addressing their argument.

It's da 4 chan way.

So you either find a reason why the author is a shill, or you pick 1 'flaw' with the methodology and handwave any research thrown at you.

> Wow n = 180? lmao small study doesn't mean anything.

This is a problem for me too since I'm stressing about my work situation