How do we know how many Jews were murdered in the Holocaust?

The Nazi's own records of it, combined with the camps that the allies liberated.

Prove him wrong.

The disappearance of several million Jews throughout the Axis territories which can't be explained by immigration.

>prove him...

Ovens couldn't burn even 1 million bodies from 42' to early 45', there was no gas, no mass shootings, the jews in the camps died of starvartion and disease caused by nazis of course. The photographed mass graves were pure fabrication. The jews were killed arbitrary and the number is some hundreds of thousands, maybe around a million. Anything more is a lie.

>it's a "stormfag doesn't know the difference between claims and proof" episode

Oh shit, this should be good.

never been on strom, the official numbers were changed so much that to believe the official statement is retarted

>believeing official statments documented and examined for decades and accepted by the entire historical community is retarded
>instead you should believe my baseless speculation

>believing absurd statements that changed over time over half of europe's jews were incinerated alive or gassed

Physical camps, testimony from liberating allies, testimony from survivors, confessions from Nazis, sudden large drop in population of Jews in Nazi-controlled areas from before to after the war.

When have the numbers changed and to What?

>testimonies from soldiers

Incorrect data prone to outside influence

>testimony from survivors

Lampshades and nazi oven rollercoasters? no thanks

>confessions from nazis

torture exists and was used

>drop in the jew pop

true, because of einsatz gun killings (under 1 mill), not from gassing

What was the most unlikeliest group caught up in the undesirables?

I'm gonna have to go with Jehova's Witnesses.

the official auschwitz number has been changed numerous times, immideately after the war it was 3 million but as time went on people started to doubt that only auschwitz can have so many victims, so they officialy lowered it to 1 million, then when the dust settled an ''new'' mass graves were found it was increased to 2.5 million

Solipsism.

this is the SS prisoner list from 43'

You mean numbers on a sign change as further research is carried out and new discoveries made? How shocking.

Like archeological discoveries, shocking like the camp was thousands of years buried under the earth?

The discoveries of bodies was all done during the camps' liberation. Changing the numbers is unprofessional and while there were killings in camps they were not as cruel and gruesome as they were made to be.

HAHAHHA SHOW IT

Fuck I was just curious I didn't want to attract the /pol/tard

>Lampshades and nazi oven rollercoasters? no thanks

>there are a few inaccurate or fabricated testimonies, so we should dismiss all of the other thousands of testimonies

>a few

quite a few actually, so if u have a bucket full of grapes and ''a few'' pieces of shit in it, would you still eat the grapes?

Nazi records, speeches, photographs and physical sites

What "official" number is this? Who designated it as such?

Various allied, communist or jewish organizations, institutions, governments.

>Retarded analogy instead of an argument
Not that guy but you sure convinced me the Holocaust didn't happen.

The holocaust as in million mass gass and burn did not happen, arbitrary jewish killings (einsatz) did.

>quite a few because I say so
>Holocaust deniers constantly use the same half-dozen or so examples

Your analogy makes me think you are either trolling or a little confused as to how history is studied.

''An 11 year old jewish girl had to stay barefoot in the snow for a week from dusk till dawn for a week for not meeting her work quotas.''

lmao if u believe this

the analogy is sound, either refute it or SUS,
holocaust denying means common sense, denying jewish killings is also wrong

So which one of them is the "official" number? And who is in charge of all of these? Are you saying that the WW2 Allies, Jews, Communists, and all governments are part of the same organization?

There is literally fabrication, exaggeration, misremembered, or misinterpreted accounts about every single major event in history. By your metric, nobody should believe anything ever.

That's not how history works.
Because a small percentage of sources are inaccurate or wrong does not mean we disregard all sources. You seem to have the idea that historians just uncritically accept whatever sources are thrown at them - they obviously don't.

The Battle of Agincourt happened. However, there is one source that claims that the entire French army of 100,000 men was slain. By your logic, we should be now be saying that either the battle never happened, or that it was a few isolated skirmishes, and the other testimonies should be discarded.

How Jewish are the sources for Agincourt?

ok troll you had a good run

sage

That or we ought to believe the Justinian Plague never happened because Procopius said Justinian killed 100,000,000 people.

>part of the same organization...

they worked toghter on the ''holocaust case''

>there is always exaggeration in history...

yes by a lot, this should be taken into account and the number drastically lowered and stop feeding bullshit about the holocaust, they were jew killings just like any other time in history where someone killed someone

>the battle of agincourt happened...

yes it did, so did jew killings, but a cery lot of the testimonies are so absurd that skepticism should be applied

The holocaust did not happen and to put it above any other arbitrary killings in history is jew pandering

>they worked toghter on the ''holocaust case''
Really? Please demonstrate how they worked together to come up with varying numbers.

people arent perfect maybe?

>yes it did, so did jew killings, but a cery lot of the testimonies are so absurd that skepticism should be applied

Are you literally retarded, did you even read the post you were replying to?

baka tbqh

skepticism of numbers and means should apply to both fuckwit especially if something happened 500 years ago

So no, then.

I'd say the number is inflated.
Germany had a shortage of labour, going as far as to conscript men from conquered territories to work in german factories. Why would you then kill off perfectly good jewish pows? There's also the false testimonies (shrunken heads, trained rape dogs, electrocution). Plus the well known changing of the auschwitz plaque.
I think jews were rounded up and put into workcamps where shit was miserable, increasingly at the end of the war. Zyklon b was a delousing agent used to prevent typhus spread, which combined with exhaustion and malnutrition killed most pows. There probably were executions, but I think these would just be done with guns. Death toll maybe around a million? Maybe 3 tops

Jews are the most unlucky people there ever was, everywhere they go, they end up persecuted.

Ok again. Holocaust did not happen, gassings did not happen, ovens did not happen. Killing in camps happened, killings of civilians happened. This happened throughout history several times. What's so special about the so called holocaust? Why are the jew killings so important and shitting up this board everyday?

But why do they get persecuted? Some of the blame must lie within their subversive activities.

This

>ovens did not happen

> how do I know you're another /pol/ shitposter?
The answer may not surprise you.

Have u heard the oven rollercoaster story?

>Changing the numbers is unprofessional

Surely NOT changing them is unprofessional if that's what the data says?

Source and why do you think that is wierd and outlandish?

>Some of the blame must lie within their subversive activities.
We should never make assumptions. Though within modern anti-Semitism you can see people pointing to things like the Jews in the communist revolutions of post-WW1 Europe. But then again wouldn't you try to subvert a society that persecuted your group, especially if it's as harshly as the east European pogroms?

No, I want proof of 's claim of collusion. I don't care whether or not these numbers are accurate for this question, I want to know how the Jews and Communist and Governments etc, conspired to come up with the same number, and then came up with different ones.

They didn't "conspire" but its a well known fact that they worked toghether on the case with various opinions being present throughout the years.

Because the child would die of hypothermia but she survived miraculously

The misspelling implies there is no source

Who was first the chiken or the egg? The jews were profiteers, always.

Don't be silly, if you got fired from a hundred jobs, wouldn't you blame the management too?

Why did i get fired? Without reason I got fired from everywhere? Doubt.

We don't. We can only guess by using estimates of the Jewish population before the war (ca. 3 million) and after (ca. 1 million), and then pore over immigration records, war casualty lists, and other evidence to find out where the discrepancy comes from. Whatever we have left that cannot be explained by other means, or can be proven to stem from the Nazis, we can safely assume to have resulted from the Nazi Holocaust. This number often comes out to between 300 thousand (Reitlinger) and 2 million (Irving).

>why are a people who are usually religiously and ethnically different from the countries they inhabit persecuted in history

The hamster wheels are turning.

Then please, show the evidence that it is well known that they worked together on "the case" (What case? Nuremberg? Why is it then that the western allies rejected the Soviet claims? How is that working together"?) How did these governments and the Jews and whatnot "work together" to present the various opinions. Surely you have proof for such claims.

>Jewish population before the war (ca. 3 million) and after (ca. 1 million)
Source?

There were over 3 million Jews in Poland alone.

They were not only persecuted they were kicked out and delanded. Doubt the reason was only difference in appearance. Why don't you guys give credit at least half to the jews for being usurers?

"In the face of the alarming amount of atrocities reported, the governments of the Allied Forces decided in early 1942 to thoroughly investigate and punish those responsible for such crimes. On December 17, 1942, the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Soviet Union signed a joint declaration acknowledging the mass murder of European Jews.

The Soviet Union issued the Moscow Declaration, on October 30, 1943, "Concerning responsibility of Hitlerites for committed atrocities" and the United Kingdom established, on August 8, 1945, the London Agreement, "Concerning prosecution and punishment of major war criminals of European Axis" (Axis meaning the Alliance of Nazi-Germany with Mussolini, then Dictator of Italy, and the Japanese Empire). Those two documents were combined into a body of laws to regulate the International Military Tribunal (IMT), created by the Allies (the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Soviet Union) in August of 1945."

Here's ur spoonfeed.

Source?

encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/holocaust-investigation

More or less a well known fact

So all those governements decided to make up the holocausts? All the reports they had were nothing but fabrications by jews?

A lot were fabrication. Without them the so called holocaust is just another historical killing.

That doesn't provide a source for as far as I can see.

Source?

auschwitz.org/en/museum/auschwitz-prisoners/prisoner-numbers

I read it. It's not a total count. See the site again.

That does not answer the question I posed. What case are you referring to? How did these governments not only work with each other, but with "Communists", "Jewish organizations", and "Institutions" work together? How did they come up with the "Official" number. And if they did come up with an "official number" why did they end up with different ones?

If we apply scepticism of any futher elaboration of these numbers we can possibly establishe that those were the exact numbers of the prisoners.

Which ones? You seems to know your stuff.

The case of the holocaust, jewish secret services, nazi hunter institutions, holocaust survivor organization, soviet and allied government worked together to established a round up of the official number. It has changedbecause of the original absurdity of the claims

>scepticism of any futher elaboration of these numbers we can possibly
Hengh?

Please, cite these claims.

The reports that live babys were burnt alive and jews being burnt alive or dead in general is what bothers me. Never was anything concretely put up yet we learned that they were gassed and then incinerated. And the gassing was already proven to be false because of lack of hermetic sealing of the chambers. The ovens were to few for such a "big" camp. Almost all deaths were by unintentional or intentional starvation, disease and gunshot

I wont cite and spoonfeed just use logic a bit who else then would state the number other than the war's victors.

Jew killing should not have a special place in history. Nobody can refute this.

Considering that has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm asking, I'm glad you aren't "spoonfeeding" me.

You do understand the thrust of my questions, right?

It shouldn't, it's embarrassing how often people forget about all the other victims of the holocaust.

Why is it the same every fucking time. When deniers get pushed on something they try to use obviously misleading sources, then when that gets called out they resort to "it's just common sense I'm not going to spoonfeed you."

The reply you should have written was "I don't have any citations," or "I can't find any after googling my claim."

Pathetic. Go back to /pol/.

>And the gassing was already proven to be false because of lack of hermetic sealing of the chambers.
Can you read German?

>The ovens were to few for such a "big" camp.
They had 52 muffles. That's quite a lot, in fact, it's about 4 times the cremation capacity necessary to incinerate the generally accepted death toll of Auschwitz.

awesomestories.com/asset/view/Auschwitz-Daily-Furnace-Capacity

Ok heres the real reason. Its late here fuck off u urself have presented zero of ur own arguments and was just trapping me until yeah as you said i should have said "no sources"

U cant prove the holocaust as presented in the form it happened really happened so brutally. This is what hurts you people.