Yo do know this is the best routine for beginners, correct?

Trapbar deadlifts are safer and easier to learn.

Box Squats serve multiple valuable purposes.

Floor press teaches you pressing from a deadstop.

It's literally better.

And that reason is because they're powerlifting competition lifts, as already said.

>This is the way it's done therefore this is good
is a fallacy, as well.

>Overhead press isn't overly technical.

I think you underestimate how shitty true novices are at literally everything.

>No, it's more for how you recover and if you're cutting. If cutting you do 3 sets of 4 reps. If bulking and professing well 5 sets of 6.

>Bulking and cutting for novices

a novice doesn't stay on a novice program long enough to do more than one of those things.

I didn't imply they would. I just meant that if you're a fatass you cut and do less volume. If you're bulking you do more.

I think I might move to this program. My knees are fucked at the moment so I know I need to do box squats really.

Thanks for posting this OP, I was trying to remember this program. Am looking into it. Alpha Destiny.... hmm

You should. Box squats prevent knee pain, are easier to recover from and guarantee depth(something a lot of novices are inconsistent with). It really is a good routine.

>no quantifiable facts to be found

those are just, like, your opinions, man.

neither are limited by their total muscle mass so there's no reason to modify their workload accordingly.

You clearly don't know what a novice is.

Literally just Google about the benefits of the trapbar. Better grip, better leverage, prevents things like back hyperextension at lockout, no shin scraping, more freedom in how you pull (say if you have a back injury or odd length limbs). it's just all around better.

Squatting properly also prevents knee pain. Videoing your squats will let you know if you're achieving depth until you're comfortable with what depth feels like without visual verification.

But trap bar gives...
Inferior lat and upper back development, inferior gluteal contraction, inferior spinal erector and lower back development, inferior grip strength development.

Plus you can't do sumo.

Plus the trap bar is worse for the knees.

Trap bar deadlift is closer to a squat than a deadlift. It's not even remotely a replacement for straight bar deadlift.

Things that could all be solved (aside from shin scraping) by pulling properly.

Trap bar reduces the amount of work your back and hamstrings do and shifts some to your quads. You want that back work, don't you? Let squats work your quads.

Mixed grip or hook grip (my preference) both solve the grip issue, if it was one to begin with. Typically novices aren't going to be out lifting their grip if they don't insist on double overhanding it.

As far as better leverage, the benefits of what trap bar offers depends on what you're looking to get out of your pulls. Are we looking for back/glute/hamstring strength? Then the mechanics of a traditional deadlift serve your purpose better. If you're looking for something else, it would probably be gained from low bar squats.

Oh, and if you're such a pussy that you can't deal with shin scraping, buy some long socks.

Are you a fucking woman or something? Jesus, just go use the fucking leg press machine if you're so afraid of a little pain.

Form is not always the issue. Some people just have fucked up knees from random injuries or just wear and tear over their life. It is a fact that box squats are safer for your knees than free squats.

You're confusing the primary lifts with the primary movement patterns. If you can pause overhead press then switching to regular ohp is not going to be difficult. Switching from box squats to free squats is not going to be difficult. Switching from trap bar to conventional MAY be a little weird for some but unless you're a total retard you're not gonna throw your max on the first time you try it.

You keep saying this about box squats but I haven't seen you provide any proof. Don't tell me to google it when you're the one making the claim.

Glutes are covered with box squats, lats and upper back is covered in pendlays chinups and to a certain extent OHP, lower back is covered in SLDL and goodmornings. Since you can do more weight on trap bar DL your grip is covered.

>Bad for the knees
no

The creator of the program has stated multiple times that the trapbar DL is there specifically FOR the quad stimulation.

Why are you guys so against the use of anything outside the competition lifts? This program is made for general strength, not a program to become a powerlifter junior.

I'm not the guy you were replying to lol

t-nation.com/training/fix-your-knees-get-bigger-stronger

kylehuntfitness.com/the-top-6-benefits-of-box-squatting/

This has been a well established fact for many years now

ITT: pussies who are scared of doing the compounds

>There are only 3 compounds
t.

> not doing a traditional beginner upper body split
> following a full body shill made by fat manlet

i do this except instead of all the variations i just do normal squat/bench/ohp

am i gonna make it?

Upper body splits are useless.

>glutes are covered with box squats
lmao, not even remotely as effectively as with deadlifts. the only movements that come close are close to isolation movements -- like buck-ups
>lats and upper back is covered in pendlays chinups and to a certain extent ohp
>pendlays
sure, but they don't help posture as much as diddly. they're also more difficult than diddly to master as a novice
>chinups
not really, chinups are mostly biceps and pecs. pull-ups will work the upper back well, but progressive overloading is difficult. it's also a moot point if the novice can't do 8 or more pull-ups...and most can't.
>OHP
this makes it pretty clear to me that you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. all of your back muscles are pulling muscles. which part of the OHP involves pulling exactly?
>SLDL and goodmornings
sure, stiff-legs and goodmornings are good for lower back. still not a good reason to avoid diddly altogether. it's an ancillary exercise for a reason. they're also much, much easier to injure yourself with as a beginner.
oh yeah, and deadlift is far, far superior to both for developing functional strength
>since you can do more weight on trap bare DL your grip is covered
lmao no. a straight bar is much more difficult to grip than a trap bar. this is an "advantage" you yourself listed. as long as you double overhand or switch your over-under grip, the grip strength gains on conventional or sumo diddly smoke the trap bar because the trap bar uses a neutral grip.
>not bad for the knees
lol, if your hip abductor development is poor, and you let your knees slide in and forward, it's horrible for them. i'm sure an elite lifter like yourself wouldn't let this happen...but, again, we're talking about novices. straight bar deadlift forces the novice to use proper knee position

>OHP doesn't use upper back
This is how I KNOW you're weak as fuck. Anyone who has ever overhead pressed a decent amount of weight will tell you that you can literally feel the upper back stabilizing the whole time.

>Moving the goalposts with pendlays

>Chinups are mostly pecs
Sure about that champ?

>SLDL is automatically ancillary because it's not "muh competition lift"

>Straight bar is harder to hold
Because it rolls ya dumb fuck, if you're exposed to holding more weight because you don't have to prevent rolling then yes your grip is going to be strong.

>Box squats aren't good for glutes
lol too bad no one agrees with you.
flexonline.com/training/box-squatting
boxlifemagazine.com/the-benefits-of-box-squats/
t-nation.com/training/back-squats-vs-box-squats

>It's bad if you're imbalanced and do it wrong
no shit sherlock

I know it's hard to accept but training does not end at the deadlift. For athletes it's not even the optimal choice of floor pull by any means.

BTFO

Question tho

How do you safely fail a box squat? Set pins very high?

>Yo do know this is the best routine for beginners, correct?
>Not Juggernaut or 5/3/1 BBB or WS4SB in pic
Pls go with your meme routine

chinups works pecs? wut

This. If your goal is muscular development and you have access to a trap bar, there is NO reason to deadlift with a barbell.
Are you competing in PL events? If not, then the rules of that sport do. not. apply. to. you. They just dont.
People here are obsessed with certain movements rather than training towards their goal in the most efficient way.

strongerbyscience.com/trap-bar-deadlifts/

Seriously. This is like broscience-tier of retardation.

>IT'S CALLED THE BIG 3 BRO. THEREFORE YOU WILL GET BIG IF YOU DO THEM

you gotta leave this beginner shit behind you man, you havent lifted for that long and attach sentimental value to certain lifts. All they do is help you elicit a muscular response to the stress. Thats how you get stronger and muscular. Doesnt matter how the bar is formed

Lots of egolifters in this thread

>I know it's hard to accept but training does not end at the deadlift. For athletes it's not even the optimal choice of floor pull by any means.
This. Dont forget that you are not talking to athletes here. These people have never played sports in their life up until recently, they don't have developed any perspective on things beyond barbell deadlifts yet.
Nice digits

>the fucking trap bar shills ITT
trap bar ain't gonna work shit but your forearms, sweeties

when I dl I'm trying to hit lower back, glutes, lats, hams. You know, the posterior chain. Have fun with your squat 2.0s though I guess

and what sports have you played fag? beer league rugby?

>let's just ignore all the articles comparing the two and how much muscle activation is actually used

You know you can work your forearms in other ways. You can trapbar deadlift AND on top of that do other exercises. It's pretty crazy, you should try it some time

15 years handball, highest league in the country when we were 15-16 years old. Traveled across the whole country, were State Champions multiple times, played against guys that are in the French and German national teams and CL finals. Had Soviet era trainers since I was 10 years old. You Americans really baffle me sometimes. It's totally normal for any kid to play sports where I'm from. You join a team when you're a kid, and if you are good enough you continue

yeah, all those articles haha...

>You can trapbar deadlift AND on top of that do other exercises
You mean like conventional? Why would I ever do trap bar when it doesn't work a single muscle better than every other lift?

>15 years handball
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

but no seriously, what sport did you play?

Yeah the ones you don't wish to read which have been posted itt

lol

>strongerbyscience.com/trap-bar-deadlifts/
Conventional Trap bar
Peak Hip Moment 353Nm 325.6Nm
Peak Knee moment 96Nm 182.5Nm
Hip:Knee Ratio 3.68:1 1.78:1

You mean this one that proves my point exactly? Thanks for directing me to it.