What are your thoughts on keto and low-carb diet in general?

If you want a quick weight loss it's good. If you want muscle and size, forget about it

>replacing sugar with butter = healthy

He fell for sugar lobbies

...yes? Latest research suggests water can hydrate the human body too. Science these days, huh?

hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/butter-is-not-back-limiting-saturated-fat-still-best-for-heart-health/

>Many people fall back on carbs, especially refined carbs like white bread, when they reduce saturated fat in their diets, said senior author Frank Hu, professor of nutrition and epidemiology. This may in part explain findings from a controversial 2014 paper that called into question recommendations for limiting saturated fat for heart health, and led to headlines promoting the return of butter.
>“Our research does not exonerate saturated fat,” said Hu. “In terms of heart disease risk, saturated fat and refined carbohydrates appear to be similarly unhealthful.”

literally Hu

One of the lead researchers involved with the original study that lead to the "saturated fat is healthy" meme

Limiting saturated fat is literally the most retarded thing you could do. Fat doesn't give you fatty liter, sugar does. Fat doesn't make your teeth fall out, sugar does. Fat doesn't make you impotent, sugar does.

Or you can be a non-retard, realize that both saturated fats and refined sugars are bad for you, and eat a healthy diet that limits both

>fat doesn't give you fatty liver
>fat clogging your arteries doesn't clog your penis artery
next thing you'll tell me that carbs make you fat

eating fat doesn't inherently make you fat, dumbass

LCHF is the only way I was able to not eat everything in front of me. Went from 300 lbs to 175 lbs on Keto

EATING
FAT
DOES
NOT
MAKE
YOU
FAT

write that 100 times a day until it sticks

yet sugar does kek

Sugar and carbs definitely give you fatty liver, the French had known that for years and force feed ducks corn to get their livers nice and fatty for foie gras, which is delicious

only if you're a lazyfuck that doesn't use the fuel from it

Same with fat

of course

You know it's extremely hard to increase your body fat percentage when you're doing LCHF, right? Are you new here?

What do I have for breakfast if cereals are banned by keto

eggs & real bacon ( not processed )

you mad, keto-fags?

saturated fat, however, does raise your cholesterol, which clogs the arteries and that's the point I was making.
excess calories -> excess fat gain -> fatty liver
well, you'd still be storing the fat that you ate. just depends on what tipped you over maintenance

do an experiment for me, friendo. eat an excess of 500-1k calories per day every day and report back to us after a few months your body fat %
fat is literally the easiest macronutrient to eat, because it's so calorically dense, yet you're saying it's hard to gain fat by eating it

easiest to stuff your face with it an not feel full is what I mean

eggs and bacon

don't forget to enjoy the cancer-gains

If you eat less calories than you require while on the diet, and that's true of any diet. Diets like keto just kill your appetite, like many health conditions do.

healthy nutrition.

ever heard about carbs not from refined sugars like potatoes and legumes kill your appetite for a longer period of time? At this point keto people are simply looking stupid.

even if bacon gives you cancer, fasting is easier to do while in ketosis and fasting prevents cancer
:^)

I'm not a keto person, I'm arguing what you are

sugar gives you cancer

>how to erase the health benefits of fasting

Eat keto alongside it

Sure, but the problem comes when people avoid satiating foods because of the saturated fat content. They go to potato chips because "they're cholesterol and saturated fat free". Then they get addicted, fat, diabetic, etc.

So just eat real food, preferably wild or grass fed which will have a much more balanced saturated/monounsaturated profile.

yes indeed refined sugar is bad we all know that. But I don't understand why there are still people of this board not understanding the consequenses of eating high amouth of saturated fat. And to add, carbs in general from normal whole foods is not plain sugar.

fruit kills dental gainz

It's shit. Maybe if you're fat but that's it.

>the problem comes when people avoid satiating foods because of the saturated fat content

You should do that. You should eat satiating foods low in saturated fat. Just because potato chips are also a poor choice doesn't mean it makes sense to eat foods high in saturated fat, even if you want to call it "real food"

A lot of grapes, tropical fruit, and dried fruit can, sure, but whole apples, pears, berries, melon, etc are all great.

Drink water, problem solved. Mind fucking blown.

...

a lot of vitamin c kills it, not fruits in general.

>You should do that. You should eat satiating foods low in saturated fat.

Yeah, exactly. I don't think living off of beef would be a great idea, being 1/2 of each mono and saturated, but eating beef, along with whole birds, wild fish (canned is cheap), eggs, nuts, avocado will be a very balanced dietary fat profile.

I guess the problem comes when people start putting butter in their coffee and live off of mayonnaise because it's keto.

>consequenses of eating high amouth of saturated fat

The friend who got me into keto lost like 100 pounds on it and is still perfectly healthy. He monitors his health very carefully because he's a turbo autist. He's been at it for years. I GUESS he'll eventually grow old and die, but I think all mammals die regardless of diet.

>I don't think living off of beef would be a great idea, being 1/2 of each mono and saturated, but eating beef, along with whole birds, wild fish (canned is cheap), eggs, nuts, avocado will be a very balanced dietary fat profile.

It's not a balanced anything, that's a low-fiber, low plant, high saturated fat, high cholesterol diet. I can sympathize with you trying to make a whole food based diet and not eat butter and bacon like a lot of people doing keto, but you have the idea that anything "natural" is good and eating a lot of saturated fat isn't a problem if you eat other kinds of fat too. It's not a reasonable thing to think.

Cholesterol is not the root cause of clogger arteries, inflammation is. Cholesterol is just used by the body to help repair the damage caused by the inflammation. People with high cholesterol and low inflammation have very little risk of vascular disraese. Ketogenic diets are highly antiinflammatory by the way.

True but foods high in cholesterol are usually also high in sat fat and pro-inflammatory so it's a full package. That's why you should eat fruits and vegetables that ar anti-inflammatory. Most people don't even get enough to cover the basic stress of digestion.

>raise your cholesterol
Yes. It raises HDL cholesterol, and lowers LDL cholesterol "the bad cholesterol"

enjoy your early death carb-addict

There's a lot of fiber per calorie in fruit and vegetables, where there isn't a lot of fiber per calorie is in grains.

I think my point is more that if you eat a diet that is satisfying, high in satiating protein and fruit/vegetables, you don't have to worry as much about the cholesterol and saturated fat content, as things have a nice way of balancing out, and it really won't be that high in saturated fat, it will be very balanced between mono and saturated, preferably in a 3:1 ratio preferring mono.

Great for sedentary people looking to lose weight. Not so good if you're trying to lift and make gains

>raises HDL cholesterol, and lowers LDL cholesterol
Bullshit. Please provide evidence, because so far I haven't seen any. There are a few inherently flawed studies that didn't adjust for stuff like BMI or vegetable/fruit intake which makes any conclusion irrelevant.

>debunking studies before I even show them to you
doesn't matter which of the dozens I will show you, you'll have some stupid fucking excuse as to why it's "flawed". I could easily do the same for every single nutritional study ever.
I'm not going to waste my time with you. Enjoy being miserable.

>Cholesterol is not the root cause of clogger arteries, inflammation is

They're not separate things necessarily, high cholesterol leads to inflammation. Obviously having high cholesterol causes more damage and provides more material to form plaques. Above about 70mg/dl of LDL, more cholesterol = more atherosclerosis, linearly.

>Cholesterol is just used by the body to help repair the damage caused by the inflammation

This is what you start thinking when you get all of your biology information from amateur low carb blogs. It doesn't even make sense if you give it a second of thought. People with high cholesterol should have low heart disease risk, and people with low cholesterol should have high heart disease risk if that were the case, not the opposite.

>People with high cholesterol and low inflammation have very little risk of vascular disraese. Ketogenic diets are highly antiinflammatory by the way.

You've been sold a meme.

Retard.

He got it half right. Saturated fats usually raise both LDL and HDL, although HDL only slightly. Higher HDL from non-lifestyle causes may not mean lower CHD risk though. Low LDL is more protective.

washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/does-good-cholesterol-still-matter/2017/05/26/d6926a8a-0e69-11e7-9b0d-d27c98455440_story.html?utm_term=.a405d65c277d
health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/hdl-the-good-but-complex-cholesterol

>I think my point is more that if you eat a diet that is satisfying, high in satiating protein and fruit/vegetables, you don't have to worry as much about the cholesterol and saturated fat content, as things have a nice way of balancing out

Well the thought is nice, but there's no reason to think that's true.

>and it really won't be that high in saturated fat, it will be very balanced between mono and saturated, preferably in a 3:1 ratio preferring mono.

Having more monounsaturated fat doesn't mean it isn't high in saturated fat. Ideally you'd want more polyunsaturated fat anyway, that lowers cholesterol.

>half right
Yeah exactly he just conveniently omitted the negative effects that heavily outweigh the small rise in HDL.

>negative effects that heavily outweigh...
such as?

The rise in LDL

>relationship
>with food

Americans, everyone.

why the fuck do Americans always get the bulk of the fat shaming? there are fat fuck brits, french, germans, poles, etc...
pretty much all of the 1st world is dealing with an obesity epidemic

>175 5'10"; past body weight was 210.
Did it for half a year and cut me down 20 more pounds to 160~ with little effort. I now just cycle on and off and avoid all sugar. feels good man

Well yeah but the US is still at the forefront and has by far the highest rate of morbidly obese people if I remember correctly. And you are the only ones heavily pandering to those by having supermarkets big enough to drive through those karts and I think americans have by far the highest fast-food consumption.

It's alright if you can maintain it. The trick is just finding things to replace carbs with and knowing how to cook. I'm too busy to do it full time, but if I'm feeling chubby I'll do it. It really doesn't matter as long as you stick to a diet consisting of near completely natural food from the salt of the earth. Why isn't that a fucking meme diet. Maybe because it's grounded in reality.

See pic related.

>healthy relationship with food
What the fuck are you talking about, dumbfuck American?

Good info.

How can you post this and not think of suicide?

Sugar is the cancer of the food world. You're deluded if you think not.

Butter isn't the staple of keto. You're using that as a strawman. Yes, things like complex carbs can be good in a balanced diet, but sugar will always be the enemy compared to any form of fat.

Nice.

Stop posting.

>cholesterol meme
Entirely based on your genetic predisposition of your blood transmitting LDL/HDL.

You're an idiot.

Crabs =/= sugar and complex carbs are good in any reasonable amount (meaning with enough protein and around your TDEE). Dietary cholesterol is not a meme and clearly has a neffect on serum cholesterol depending on your base leven, the lower it is the better (you can't have high HDL and super low LDL). Saturated fat is also bad in that regard and vastly inferior to any plant including grain products like oats. I'd rather eat a slive of bread than an egg and then some greens for missing nutrients.

it's effective but I think there are healthier more sustainable ways to lose fat.

>Sugar is the cancer of the food world. You're deluded if you think not.

Nobody said otherwise. People like you just create a false dichotomy where you act like the only foods that exist are bacon and lollipops, and of one is bad then the other is good by default.

>Butter isn't the staple of keto. You're using that as a strawman.

Like it or not, butter is the poster food of keto and low carb in general.

Why do people keep saying this shit? I've had like 3 lifts go up in the two months I've been doing it.

Just eat more fats ffs, I guarantee that's where people fuck up with the lack of energy.

My main question is if it is for lanklets trying to gain muscle. I figure it's good for fat loss. Can a 6'2" skelly see any progress?

Because you literally and unironically need carbs for good athletic performance, especially high intensity like lifting. Maybe if you're pretty "new" you can work your way through but even then you'd do better otherwise.

>my bench went from 110 to 120 pounds, I don't know what you guys are talking about

Dumb nigger you can use fat just as well. You're just too much of a bitch slave to your sugar carby cravings

carbs are only good when you're competing and it's the big day

My cholesterol actually went down from 175 to 163 after being on keto for 3 months.

Losing weight lowers cholesterol

My last blood test was from 2015 where I weighed less then I do now.

You're a medical anamoly then. That, or you have cancer.

works great for me,just hit 5lb weight loss, going for 10 more pounds so i can be 170 when i go into MEPs

Or all the old studies about saturated fat are wrong like the most recent ideas are proposing.

My own results prove that, can't wait to see the test again in another 3 months.

I am so fucking triggered by all the retarded comments on this fucking board about keto that im not even going to attempt to explain

i understand why bodybuilding dot com makes members post a pic of themselves, half these mother fuckers are prolly chugging mountain dew with there fat little hands commenting about how squating gets u glorious abs

FUCK TREN RAGE ENGAGE

Carbs have always been my vice.

>Started really focusing on getting into ketosis about 4 days ago instead of just cutting back on bread and sugar.
>I got the test strips today and it said I was in ketosis (though I was dehydrated so it was probably a false positive).
>Doesn't really matter though because I just fucked it up by eating a shit ton of bran cereal.
>Milk was about to go bad, anyway

I am kind of pissed at myself right now but I know if I did it once I can do it again. And all I have to do is not buy cereal again that way it's not in the house (bought it before going keto)

I have to wonder how many anti-keto fags are the same kind of GOMAD strongfat powerlifter never cardio types. There has to be a massive overlap into the "we don't want to diet" circle.

I don't think your anecdote of an experiment of one with no controlled variables is grounds to say the well established link between saturated fat and blood cholesterol concentration is disproven.

I can comfortably sleep on my left side for the first time in years doing keto, I wonder what that means
youtu.be/qSmFYbsQRio?t=3m34s

...

Let's consult a random youtube charlatan

>Dr. Berg, 50 years of age is a chiropractor who specializes in weight loss through nutritional and natural methods

"Dr."

Don't know why you're so reluctant to change your views.

What did saturated fat ever do to you?

okay I'm sure it's just a complete coincidence

>Don't know why you're so reluctant to change your views.

Because hundreds of controlled experiments published in peer-reviewed journals over several decades involving thousands of people have found that saturated fats, in fact, raise cholesterol levels, and you're trying to say "ignore all that, my anonymous anecdote is better evidence." Obviously that's not something to change my views over.

lost 100 lbs on keto
will probably use it for every cut for the rest of my life

Tried it back when I genuinely needed to lose weight. I guess it helped kick my ass into tracking what I ate, but as others have said, it's hard to maintain. If I do it now, I feel really tired. Easier to just throw out processed food and focus on that.