Why did it take us so long to realise sugar, not fat, was the enemy?

way too long man, way too long
I have been doing Keto for 3 weeks, and dropped 2 weekends, eating a lot of carbs because of social reasons, still went from 81kg to 74.4 this morning.
Got a shit ton of energy, no hunger, no cravings, much more mental clarity and feel much better overall.

no shit, im wondering about the spices if any

Now that's an artery clogging meal. Just missign the bacon and something deep fried.

Do you have easy recipes to share? Everything in my house seems to have carbs in it.

Surely you mean excess calories are the enemy

taco seasoning

Too bad you cant bulk on keto, training also goes to shit

>inb4 you can bulk on keto
There is literally no data out there saying you can so I wonder what happens if you exceed your tdee while doing it

>it's physically impossible to eat more than your tdee while eating fewer carbs

>merchants
Oy vey!

I tried bulking on keto and it helped to stay pretty lean and I made some good gains.
Overall I dropped keto and just went low carb because I felt 100g of complex carbs helped recovery more than the 40 or so I was eating on keto.
I did keto to lose weight for about 4 months, ate at maintenance for two and bulked on it for a month before just switching to a low carb clean bulk which I've been on for a few months with some breaks in between. I generally also like the freedom of food choices that low carb offers over keto. Spanishfag so I eat a lot of beans and find it much easier to hit my calorie goals with the little leeway that I have with how many carbs I eat.

I phrased it wrong meant bulking on muscle
you should carb cycle if you train on keto obviously. the experts even recommend that after training while on keto to eat a meal with a lot of carbs + protein. The point is to spike insulin

wrong, you stupid fuck.

Because sugar is less expensive than fat, so the food industry makes more money selling sugary junk instead of fatty junk

not true those vegetable oils are even cheaper and even worse for your health than sugar

They do that with studies showing no link between saturated fat and heart disease too, and studies about dietary cholesterol. There's shills all around.

cspinet.org/sites/default/files/attachment/covermay2014.pdf

I tried doing both a TKD and a CKD while bulking. CKD helped the most but personally I still prefer just doing low carb now for the freedom in diet choice also because I hate stuffing myself full of carbs on a few days. I should also mention I do 20/4 IF to try to maintain insulin sensitivity with the added amount of carbs that I have now.
Performance wise TKD gave me the biggest energy boost for my workout sessions but CKD made me feel stronger. Now low carb gives me a good mix of both.

the fuk is tkd and ckd

Sugar is an $80 billion industry, and like tobacco it's in their best interest that nobody figures out how horrible their garbage is. In the US, at least, sugar is one of the very few protected monopolies (or technically a triopoly of three powerful sugar companies) the government tried to bust up the monopoly in 1894 but they took it to the Supreme Court and with United States v. E. C. Knight Co. the Justices ruled that sugar is "a vital industry and trustbusting them is a threat to national stability".

Then in 1930s, FDR (in a series of deals with the American Socialist Party) passed legislation that guarantees that they can never go out of business and that no new sugar company can be started on US soil.

Once they saw what was happening to nicotine companies in the 70s, they got slimy George McGovern to target "fat" as the enemy. Which threw people off the sugar industry for decades. Then in the 80s they developed a slew of sweetners and started to work on high fructose corn syrup as a way to rake in government funds on such an unprofitable but highly political crop.

Soon they'll figure out a way to throw people off again, they're very powerful and very clever at manipulating the public.

>TKD
Targeted keto diet where you eat roughly 50g of carbs around the time of your workout. It's advised for these to be relatively high GI and not come from fruits so that it gets used preferentially as muscle glycogen instead of liver glycogen. This does not count towards your net carb total for the day since the effect of the workout essentially nulls the anti-ketogenic effects it has.
>CKD
The cyclical keto diet has you do a weekly carb load. The main goal being to fully deplete glycogen within your workouts for the week before doing a large carb load at the end of the week to induce super-compensation of glycogen. After the carb load you attempt to enter a ketogenic state ASAP with some fasted cardio as well as the first workout being a high rep glycogen depleting one. I typically found this type of keto diet to have the best impact on my physique. The day after your carb load you look so goddamn lean and pumped.

Lyle McDonald goes into absurd depth on the physiological effects of both and the proper way to implement them in his book if you want to read more.

>like tobacco it's in their best interest that nobody figures out how horrible their garbage is.

They did a shit job of that then. While our subsidies in the US are pretty dumb, the message to cut down on sugar has been clear for decades. It's not like we're just now starting to understand or accept that sugar is unhealthy. That's been common knowledge for about as long as it's been known that not all fats are healthy.

Because targeting fat seemed simple and logical. >Fat makes you fat

It wasn't crazy to think that. The crazy part is how long we thought that after everyone kept getting fatter

>mfw I see my fat sister-in-law still falling for the low fat meme.

Recently on a family vacation at the beach she ate a jelly filled nutri grain bar instead of eggs to avoid the fat

>It wasn't crazy to think that. The crazy part is how long we thought that after everyone kept getting fatter

What do you mean? People kept eating high fat diets and continued getting fatter

Sure buddy, keep on feeding on the one macro that is BY FAR the most prevalent in fast food menus.

Surely it wasn't those fries, burgers, pizzas, fried everything, biscuits and cream that made America the obese nation. It was that damn sugar all along. With its property to block arteries with fat.

I guess TKD is better for overall performance

is it true that you look smaller while on keto

Trans fats are bad tho

This is true.

>Fat makes you fat
IF your body runs on carbs that is true though

what happens is whenever your body runs on carbs it will store dietary fat as adipose tissue to spare carbs. if you just eat fat it will use that but if you add carbs to the mix it will directly store the fat as bodyfat. This has been observed in studies. This is why fatty carbs are the worst thing you can eat if youre concerned about getting fat(think of donuts for example)

This doesnt mean you cant get fat off of bulking on carbs since your body can adapt to this. It takes a day or two so in theory you should be able to eat a fuckload of carbs for 1 day and not gain any weight because of it

A diet high in saturated fats and trans fats correlate with a shitty diet of Mc dee's, but it doesn't mean you can't have a healthy diet with lots of saturated / trans fats. Overeating is the problem, and most people feasting on Mc dee's don't exactly count calories

its not fat that's the problem its calories, which fast food has plenty of. Sugar has lots of calories as well, so OP is being a little bit oversimplifying

>what happens is whenever your body runs on carbs it will store dietary fat as adipose tissue to spare carbs
Nope only if it's in excess.
> It takes a day or two so in theory you should be able to eat a fuckload of carbs for 1 day and not gain any weight because of it
Not how it works.

Calories are the deciding factor. It doesn't matter what your macro ratio is, if you eat 1500 calories each day and your body uses 2000 calories to operate for the day, you'll lose weight. If you eat 2500 calories each day, you'll gain weight.

>healthy diet with lots of saturated / trans fats
i fucked up that last bit

>Nope only if it's in excess.
google the recent studies done on de novo lipogenesis its basicly(obviously not word for word) what I read

>it doesn't mean you can't have a healthy diet with lots of saturated / trans fats

It does though. By definition, a healthy diet is defined in part as a diet low in saturated and trans fats. If all that mattered for health was your body weight, you might be able to make the "you can eat anything, just don't overeat" argument, but it's not. Food directly affects you in other ways.

Normies are easy to trick. I work in a market, and all the sugary crap they market to millennial moms is the same: made with real fruit! organic! made with whole grain! made with fruit and vegetables! non-GMO! natural! no added sugar! no artificial flavors or colors! But it's all the same sugary crap that their little Aidens and McKaylas and Bentlys and Bellas demand, and will be hooked on for the rest of their lives, just like their fat moms and fat dads. Toaster pastries, granola bars, fruit covered in chocolate, fruit in simple syrup, cookies, candy.
And if it's not sugar, it's other simple carbs. Veggie chips! All the carbs and salt, but we made it with peas and carrots so you don't have to feel guilty, mom! Makes me fucking sick. But normies get what they deserve for failing to educate themselves and being tricked by Porky.

>Some fats are bad for you. Some fats are good for you.
Bad fats: Trans Fat (man made)
Good fat: saturated fat (meat, coconut oil)
Great fat: unsaturated fats

The only fat that is even bad for you is trans-fat and it's completely man made and it's in shit like Oreos, cake icing, etc.

No matter what any of the weebs on this board say, it continues to remain fact that the people who stick with the tried and tested "chicken broccoli and rice" have the best results all around.
Obviously there is a need for some fat, but it can come from healthy amount of milk or nuts.

Its goldstein, not porky you fuckin goy

Wrong. Saturated fat is bad as it does raise LDL, polyunsaturated have been shown to potentially be bad too. What you want are monounsaturated fats.

>cooking ground beef with eggs
>not draining out the fat and grease from ground beef
>not cooking them separately

Enjoy your heart attack

because sugar barons are very very good at marketing. By marketing their candy as "FAT FREE" long enough, people began to actually believe it was. They also more or less invented the concept of snacks which is like a trillion-dollar industry.

Sugar is good if you're active, which lifting 3 times a week does not fall under

By weight your average McCuckald meal will have way more SUGAR than Fats , and it's not Macro % that determine the end game , the simple presence of sugar is bad .
And before shilling the complex carbs meme , just because it's listed as Carbohydrate & not as sugar doesn't means it's not pure fucking sugary trash .
"Sugar" From whole milk will be absorbed way slower than "carbohydrate" from wheat or potatoes , rice .

The length of the chain doesn't matter as much as the strength of the link and how it's packaged inside of the food .

Fries & buns are pure sugar .

fuck of retard

>Good fat: saturated fat (meat, coconut oil)

Those would also fall under bad fat

healthyforgood.heart.org/Eat-smart/Articles/Saturated-Fats

Ever heard of corn syrup?
It's cheaper to produce than any plant-based oil

So you can only ad hominem me? Are you that insecure? Just accept you were wrong about it and incorporate it into your life to be healthier.

NOOOOOOOOO

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

This is the answer and the thread should have ended here because everything else is wrong. It's plain greed and corruption. So much science (especially in diet and exercise science) from around 1930 to 1990 has been overturned in the past decade it's fucking insane. Fucking greedy ass scientists screwing over humankind for a mediocre payout and the capitalist fuckheads paying them off knowing full well what they are doing. Disgusting.

judging by the orange its probably Sazon. probably half a pack for such little meat. you can get it with reduced sodium too

the problem with sugar is its ADDICTIVE.

its that feeling you get when you say to yourself "another one hurt" and soon its a recursive loop calling itself until you run out of said product

then you buy more and call the method again

If you take the sugar out of food theres a reason you dont want to eat more of it

You are a fucking degenerate if you say that saturated fats are bad. They are essential for many organs like your stomach and your brains you fucking idiot

Is this you OP?

I've rarely read so much misinformation conveniently packed in one post.

FRIED potatoes are pure sugar guys
FRIED

Wat. Are you retarded?

The only essential fats are omega-3s and omega-6s and you only need a tiny amount of those. Kids these days, I swear.

This, having to count calories to stay lean or not get fat is the most ridiculous thing ever .

You should never have to use "willpower" to prevent yourself from eating food lol .

Sugar fuck up so much with your hormone that you'd get fat & unealthy if you weren't will powering through the craving .

A well regulated man who know how is body function and eat accordingly to it should never have craving .

> dropped 2 weekends

how much weight is a weekend exactly?

Fast food almost always has shitty fats and shitty carbs because the combination is what makes it so satisfying. They're both equally bad. Also potatoes are really healthy despite having a high GI (assuming you buy and cook/bake them, not deep fr or so).

>You are a fucking degenerate if you say that saturated fats are bad.

I guess every expert who's qualified to make a statement about nutrition is degenerate. It's a global consensus based on decades of rigorous research.

>They are essential for many organs like your stomach and your brains you fucking idiot

Careful how you use the word essential in this context. They aren't essential in the diet because your body synthesizes them when and where they're needed. Exogenous saturated fat that passes through your digestive system causes adverse reactions, the most well understood being the increase in LDL cholesterol leading to higher risk of heart disease.

nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10490&page=422

They're the only " essential" one because your body WILL die without them for a long period of time .

The other's aren't as vital but they're the precursor to almost every hormone in your body ( including test & growth hormone ) , that's why lowfat highcarb people always look fucking sickly .

I think it varies by people which diet works best which is something Veeky Forums can't even come close to understanding. Best thing to do is try one and give it a chance for a month or two (this is especially important with keto because of how long it takes to get truly fat adapted). To answer your question though yea you do look smaller on keto. I think (broscience) it mostly has to do with how diuretic it is though because you look leaner and drier as well but you just don't have that plump full look that you have with more carbs.

A little bit of n=1 thinking here but my diet consisted of >140g of saturated fat for several weeks with 0 trans fat roughly 15g mono and 6g of fish oil a day before I got blood work. The results showed low to average LDL and HDL as well as the lowest levels of triglycerides my doctor had ever seen. During this time I was doing very strict keto with only about 15g of net carbs and 1-2g of sugar a day.
There are multiple studies showing how saturated fats have multiple protective properties against CVD. I think like other anons have noted, the danger of high sat fats comes when you are also eating a high carb high sugar diet as well. In which case I'm pretty sure just eating too much is bad for you regardless of the type of food your eating. Moderation is always king
This user knows what's up

>There are multiple studies showing how saturated fats have multiple protective properties against CVD

I doubt it, but regardless the vast majority of the evidence points to higher CVD risk. The only time saturated fats look alright is when being compared to trans fats or refined sugar.

Enjoy your fucked up arteries and butthole cancer.

You were the one using that word, retard user. And you literally do not need to eat ANY saturated fat.

Btw growth hormones are correlated to faster aging and cancer. You're spouting some serious bullshit here.

There is a limit in how much Fat we can digested , regulated by the amount of Bile our gallbladder can store , on top of that Fat is the nutriment that trigger leptin & hunger regulating hormone the most .
If you eat only fat & protein from real food , like meat & eggs , you can"t overeat without literally forcing yourself to eat.

enjoy living long enough to buy adult diapers

A lot of bullshit right here.

Saturated fats are found in your body. They are necessary in small amounts.

i'm not the original user you responded to , just wanted to enlighten you .
And in a healthy body the HGH will regulate itself to the optimal level ( feedback when there is too much ) , but if there is not enough precursor then there will never be enough .

My mom makes it all the fucking time and it's so fucking good.

Basically
>put frozen ground meat on pan with water
>break up ground meat as much as you can
>few minutes in, after meat starts sizzling toss in a few eggs
It's really as simple as that.

/The Jews

Have you considered that it's both, or at least the mixture of the two that is the problem? I remember the BBC had a documentary of fat vs sugar. The conclusion was that mixing the two is the problem. When rats are fed food high in sugar and no fat, they don't overeat. The same holds true when fed all day and no sugar. The problem comes when you feed them a ratio of the two, in the form of cheesecake. Only then do they fail to naturally regulate their diet.

The problem isn't fat or sugar. Its the combination of the two.

I guess dietary cholesterol is essential too then because we have a constant level in our blood right? And sugar is too right?

Retard.

Please educate yourself before posting ever again

Our bodies are extremely efficient and good at synthesizing them. We do not need any dietary fat except those 2 omegas and it does not have any significant adverse effects if you cut all other fats (though a little bit is definitely better). However especially saturated fats are absolutely unnecessary.

The talk about our bodies regulating it to the optimal level is also plain wrong.

>Saturated fats
>essential
Please look up what "essential" means.

Because the sugar industry pushed the meme in order to make money. I'm not just talking about one specific product. I'm talking about the whole damn thing.

Calorie for calorie, where food is concerned, it is far cheaper to produce carbs than fats and especially proteins. The biggest profit margins are to be found in sugar/carbs.

Decades ago, Americans ate pretty healthily for example. Fried eggs/etc. Those involved in the bread industry (pastries/etc) didn't like this. A lot of doctors were paid off/bought out and thus the meme was born that fat was the enemy. Hence Americans abandoned their formerly healthy diets for bullshit such as having a croissant/coffee and cigarette for fucking breakfast.

Where fat is concerned, we can say that pretty much ONLY trans fats are bad.

Here, however, we need nuance:

1) Although we now know that Saturated Fat is no longer 'bad' for us (Coconut oil especially), it is not really 'good' for us either - in that it does nothing for us despite the health benefit claims so rife in the present fad

2) If you want a healthy, good fat/oil - your best bet by a country mile is Hemp Oil. Not only is most of it polyunsaturated, but it contains shitloads of Omega 3 & 6 as well. You can meet and exceed your RDA's easily with that stuff.

They also own all the artificial sweetners as well. They'll get you hooked on SOMETHING.

>put frozen ground meat on pan with water
what the fuck, are you living in some 3rd world shit hole

Our bodies absolutely need dietary fat. It's completely essential to hormone production, among other things.

>Hemp oil

My nigga. Liquid gold, tastes good too.

On mobile so can't link the studies I have bookmarked but you can start with this video
youtube.com/watch?v=RwGteseHyas

I agree with most of the things this user is saying however I would add that mono unsaturated fats are shown to have a positive effect on CVD that I don't think anyone will deny. But I will say avoid relying entirely no veggy oils as the large majority of them have considerably more Omega 6s than 3s while the recommended ratio is about 2:1.

Wtf man , Poly aren't specifically good by themselves , it's just that they work in tandem to do shit in your body , the ration should optimally stay between 1;2 to 2:1 O3/O6 .
The average man get around 1:10 to 1:20 in today's society .
Hemp oil are shit because the ratio is something like 1:15 .

A cardiologist "overthrowing" decades of science and the consensus? Cmon that's just stupid and obviously a career thing. He has a following and gets payed to give speeches and I bet he also has some bait book to sells. But yeah if the thread is still around I'd be interested in the studies. It really is a shame but so much of the research on nutrition is biased, faulty or just straight "bought" from the industry.

Sugar was always the enemy and it will always be, like wtf? If you are talking about carbs in generel, sorry you are dead wrong. Carbs from natural sources are the best you can do to your body.

Fat has been shown to be the enemy because of how bad the ratio of saturated/unsaturated fat we get through the normal diet. Everything if full of "bad" fat, every fast food, everything processed has a ratio if 14 (saturated) / 1 (unsaturated). This is also true in meat, even lean meat like chicken is full of it. You simply can not deny that saturated fat is bad for your fucking health (in huge amouths and a bad ratio).

And this is where keto and low carb people should wake up. Its not about that keto or low carb is bad or worse but that is contains a bad ratio of these 2 fats with all the fucking meat and eggs you shove down your throat. Transfats are the worst, avoid them completly.

Pls GOD don't just say "sugar" and "fat", there are good and bad in both fucking fag.

Did you even watch the video? Obviously everything he says doesn't just destroy years of evidence and research. However he makes great points about misunderstandings as well as general misinformation that has been spread in both the medical and scientific community. The video is a great starting point to broaden your views and do further research on questions or doubts you have.
I should also point out, this video as well as my own research is what has influenced my diet and diet choices j make. Noone should watch one video and believe it's the best for all mankind, rather they should do research and experiment with what they believe in and feel is the best information out there.

wait 50-60 years when avg people who had normal diets outlive people w keto-paleo diets,

You're on a keto diet right? I personally think that's one of the worst possible diet choices, I'd rather go raw vegan than keto and I've been reading up on general nutrition/diet/metabolism for some months now too. I really don't feel like watching some speech from someone who doesn't seem to specifically work in the field of nutrition. And it's probably stuff I've long read too, probably against some anti-fat studies that got a ton of attention like the China Study or the 7 countries study.

One doctor I really like is jacknorrisrd.com/ he is very open about misinformation and tunnelvision of especially the vegan frontrunners.

yeah agree, this guy is solid.

What foods would you recommend to eat daily and if I'm able to eat chicken daily what is the maximum to avoid a bad diet but still have the good tasty meals?