Vegan General

>don't humans work constantly in nature tho?

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>Somatic cells (commonly known as "pus")

Somatic cells are any cells other than reproductive ones, I'm not sure where you got this from

>defending drinking milk

Eggs are literal trash tier food for plebs who want to get diabetes and die of a heart attack

So, the fact that countless animals die as a result of agriculture does not matter to you? No matter what you eat, you are responsible for some animal's death. Or, is it human life = cow/chicken life =/= bugs?

>implying a passive bodily function is the same as working for gain.

Do you place a high value on your own feces?

Prove it.

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>he's playing the agriculture argument
So I can farm a tract of land, killing animals, feed the harvest to a cow and then kill and eat it or I can take the path where I harm less animals and eat the food myself.

Hmmmmm.........

f

Watch Food Inc. and Food Choices documentaries. You can't eat a political ideology, ya dingus.

Chickens != human's
You analogy is shit.

>protein needs, age 14-18
>52g

youtube.com/watch?v=aNby8ongJsM
youtube.com/watch?v=8g8ASQZ0dZw
youtube.com/watch?v=RtGf2FuzKo4

Watch this. All studies are referenced. Guy is a doctor specialising in clinical nutrition.

Why did you have to say "black" slave? Fucking cuck, a slave can be any color you libstain. Thanks for telling me everything i need to know avout vegans shitlord

>he bought into marketing lies like the dumb cunt he is and thinks you need at least 200g of protein every hour or you'll go catabolic, lose all your gains and look like you just left auschwitz

name the trait present in chickens that, if present in humans, would justify killing us. there is no trait. you're a faggot pushing a double standard

Chicken is a living, feeling creature. Just like a human being.

blacks != humans
The analogy was fine.

He's a serious cherry-picker though.

>he fell for the protein Jew

>being such a weak-minded faggot that you get turned off by a bit of pus and shit

That image has some truth in it, but is awful for a variety of reasons.

>Implies that every farm animal is as resource-intensive as beef

Raising chickens is only slightly less efficient than raising insects for food, the latter of which you often hear about from vegans who conveniently neglect to mention how resource-efficient chicken is.

You could easily raise hundreds of chickens using the same grain and water resources as it takes to produce one cow.

>Muh "meat is gross"

Good thing we pasteurize our milk and cook the meat, eh?

>"Muh water use!"

A fair point, but again this only applies to large animals like cows (and pigs, to a lesser extent).

You can eat meat and still be environmentally conscious. That's why most of the animal protein I consume is from poultry and small fish species from stocks which are healthily populated.

For people who don't bodybuild, that's actually true. We don't need much protein to maintain nitrogen balance.

>the truth about eating animals its mass mechanized murder
>eating animals its mass mechanized murder
>mass mechanized murder
>murder

Stopped reading there. Apparently animals killing other animals is murder.

Can you prove that or is that just your emotional position because it means your diet is shit?

>cook the meat
>Good thing we create heterocyclic amines which cause cancer, eh?
Retard

>hasn't even watched the source
>still arguing about it

This is why you can't argue with meat eaters. They cannot into logic. Eating meat is literally killing our planet and their greatest "argument" is "meat tastes good".

Imagine being this much of a spineless waste of human that you won't eat meat because of "the planet."

like, ugh, I know right, the cucking libtarded stain, fuck that cunting shitlord bro. valhala shall welcome the strong

really bad bait desu

>my delicate sensibilities do not allow me to kill animals to grow stronger

Yous a little bitch.

>my delicate sensibilities do not allow me to kill animals to grow stronger
What part of the animal helps you grow stronger that you can't get elsewhere?

>Yous a little bitch.
I hope you're only ironically talking like a nigger

That's not how it works, shit for brains. It's "name the trait present in humans that, if found in chickens, would justify not killing them". That is the human soul.

So, it is the marginal killing that matters to you?

By this logic, eating animals you hunt (or that are raised free range) is as ethical as eating farmed produce, since in each case you are only responsible for one step of life taking.

26 chickens a year?
try at least 2 chickenbreasts a day aka 730 chickens a year plus about 150kg beef

>the human soul

Doesn't exist

It works both ways. Souls aren't real

>free range
Not ethical
>life taking
Not ethical when there are alternatives that feed more people

cuck off fedora fag

We can leave out the ethical standpoint for your sake if you're going to fall back on chickens being sustainable, as that doesn't seem to be of your concern anyway, however, the grains that feed the chickens still need to be transported, which also accounts for a large carbon footprint of the industry, especially seeing that the grains are nearly always cheaply imported from developing countries in Africa or Asia for example. Now let's assume that in a theoretical future all demands for meat were met with poultry; you'd still have extremely inefficient use of space. Were you to use the space to grow crops you'd eliminate the stress on the environment stemming from global crop transport for livestock feed as well as nitrogen pollution of local soil/water bodies in the vicinity of the chicken farms, which is another major issue with the meat industry. Instead of this you could just efficiently grow crops locally.

fkr

>especially seeing that the grains are nearly always cheaply imported from developing countries in Africa or Asia for example

Let's all just stop eating meat to destroy the only industry these shitholes have ever created! They can just come as refugees to our liberal, vegan, feminis countries. Everyone will be happy :)

This. Not sure why humans need to take the moral high ground on not killing animals for food although killing for sport and mutilation of animals can be a flag for some serial killer shit down the line

Pretty respectable imo

Chicken farming is also a major cause of antibiotic-resistant bacteria, and chicken shit spreads a lot of arsenic into soil and water

If you want to argue semantics due to anthropocentric definitions we can say genocide or holocaust. Up to you.

Really, the largest problem is that people in developed countries (the U.S., especially) eat an excess of meat.

There's no reason for a fat lard ass to eat 250 grams of protein a day when they don't exercise. A large amount of what is now used for livestock should be replaced with space used to grow grains and legumes.

Meat below a certain amount should be available for everyone to purchase, but to go amount the quota you should have to prove that you do strength training and need above a certain amount of lean protein.

This would have the added benefit of upsetting fat people.

I want /pol/ to leave.

That's correct, just not what people shoot for if they're into strength training. Read any nutrition label with some amount of protein in it, do the math, and figure out that the recommended daily value of protein for a normal person is about 50g. Or you can just google it.

I meant to say "above the quota."

This is also a legit problem and again should help push for a more local option, I raise your own and or hunt

I'm all for upsetting fatties but there should be a different way. Meat should not be available for everyone. Constipation alone costs the US billions a year when dumb cunts could just eat some vegetables instead. And that isn't even to talk about serious diseases like CHD (the number one killer of Americans linked directly to cholesterol and saturated fat intake), CVD, diabetes and cancer.

Veganism is right up there with conservatism as the most hypocritical lifestyle a person can choose.

>always requires seasoning or condiments
try a good steak, not one from golden corral

I seriously can't stand lefties anymore.

>forbid this
>tax that
>gender this

And whenever someone disagrees that the government should not choose what food others eat
>I want /pol/ to leave

>What part of the animal helps you grow stronger that you can't get elsewhere?
Hunting it down by tracking it, running it down, wrestling it to the ground, slitting its throat, digging my fist into its chest, pulling out its heart and eating it, the adrenaline of it all stimulating my muscle growth as I devour its protein rich flesh to feed my muscles to be faster, stronger, more powerful for tomorrow's hunt. Nothing you'd understand being a sally sitting around singing kumbaya watching your flowers grow.

>talking like a nigger
And you're a racist to boot. You really are the type of genetic dead end who values the lives of other organisms more than that of your own species, bitch nigga.

Let's hear your reasoning.

What you need to understand is that there is a very real demand for crops for these communities locally, back at home, it's just that currently it is more profitable for farmers to export their crops to the meat industry in more developed countries.

I'd say it's fine ethically, just not healthy.

>Apparently animals killing other animals is murder.

It seems like you say that as if to imply that when an animal kills another animal, it is always out of necessity. That's simply untrue and not the case with humans at all. A shark kills a seal out of necessity. It requires meat to survive. Humans functions perfectly fine without having to eat any animals or their produce.

Hunting and raising your own is still unethical and unhealthy. Please stop trying to justify using modern outfits, modern lures, modern equipment, modern weapons, etc to hunt an animal for no reason.

>I'm an idiot and I'm just going to say words and pretend I'm right

Nah I'm good

>stupid power fantasies that don't answer my question
So you have no answer

>And you're a racist to boot. You really are the type of genetic dead end who values the lives of other organisms more than that of your own species
Niggers aren't my species tho

Yeah there's countless factors. The user was just talking about the environment and so I tried to stick to that to make it digestible.

Great thread, I'm going to dump my don't drink milk infographics

(Numbering different parts of my post so replying to each section isn't difficult)

1) In an ideal world run by vegans, would anyone eat meat at all? Asking both you and any vegan browsing this.

2) I know that vegan diets are rich in every essential nutrient except for B12, but what about lean protein? Protein is easy enough to get while vegan, but with it comes a lot of calories, unlike when eating meat or fish.

3) I'd be interested if someone were to crunch the data about vegan lean protein (such as vegan protein powders) in terms of cost and resource efficiency compared to whey powder.

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>la la la, I don't like your answer so it doesn't count, la la la

Yeah, yous a bitch nigga.

>In an ideal world run by vegans, would anyone eat meat at all?
No, if people are properly educated about the downsides of meat for the human body and the environment and there are high punishments for harming animals, combined with an illegal meat industry, nobody would be eating meat at all.

No animal products you fucking spastic.

>what about lean protein?
99,9% of the population don't need to high amounts of lean protein, so the question is pointless

holy shit, this is the funniest exchange I ever saw on 4chin. a vegan cuck clashes with regular cuck.
ok faggots, keep going now, I want to see more

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Would we also be taxed for breathing air and castrated for drinking fresh water in this eden of yours, miss pixie pants?

>1) In an ideal world run by vegans, would anyone eat meat at all?
In an ideal world people wouldn't consume animal products

>2) I know that vegan diets are rich in every essential nutrient except for B12
Meat diets lack B12 too. It's supplemented into the animal feed and minimally from grass/water if free range. It's produced by bacteria.

>Protein is easy enough to get while vegan, but with it comes a lot of calories, unlike when eating meat or fish
I think our disagreement here will ultimately come from how much protein we think is needed. I'm a pretty basic vegan and can meet my protein needs within my calories so I haven't given this much thought.

>3) I'd be interested if someone were to crunch the data about vegan lean protein (such as vegan protein powders) in terms of cost and resource efficiency compared to whey powder.
I don't know anything about resource efficiency but it's probably easier to use a plant source than growing plants to feed animals to then derive protein. I have a rice/pea protein powder that cost the same as every other powder. The down side is it tastes like shit. But that could just be the flavour. I've never liked ANY chocolate protein powder

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>argumentum ad absurdum
I want /pol/ to leave.

>this is a potato
>it grows tubers to store energy so that i can bloom and reproduce
>you are not a potato sprout
>it is unnatural to eat potato tubers

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for 1); Ideally no. There's no inherent need/reason to do so living in a developed country, however the definition of veganism states that it tries to "eliminate cruelty and suffering as much as --practically-- possible", meaning that, if for whatever reason you are shipwrecked in the open sea, for example, your only source of nourishment being a fish you just harpooned, you are still vegan if you eat that to survive. I know this sounds mind boggling, but this is a logical conclusion from my aforementioned definition of veganism.

To be honest I'm very new to lifting as a whole and haven't looked into the matter of lean protein. All I can say is that while vegan sources of protein may come with the luggage of more calories, it does not the include the luggage of saturated fats and an increased risk factor of coronary heart disease amongst many other things. I'll let the more seasoned lifting vegans answer that one.

>let me disregard your argument because I don't like it

Something tells me you're also a feminist, an sjw and identify as a gender fluid tree bark.

>for example, your only source of nourishment being a fish you just harpooned, you are still vegan
No, you're not. Whatever the reason, you are NOT allowed to harm animals and call yourself a vegan at the same time.

This is wrong and I suspect it's a non-vegan saying it. Not even the guy you're replying to.

What argument? No, vegans won't tax breathing as they won't tax eating/producing meat. We will just forbid these things.

Of course it is right. Eskimos are killing seals to survive. Are they allowed to call themselves vegans?

... but you kill millions of insects and animals to ensure the growth and harvesting of crops.

Eskimos aren't killing seals to survive though. This argument is shit. Why do non-vegans pretend to have an understanding of veganism?

Read the definition again. The risk of dying of starvation is an impracticality, thus necessitating eating whatever is at hand to prevent death. Again, by the aforementioned definition of veganism you are still technically vegan in that situation. I'm currently living in a developed country, therefore it's perfectly practical for me not to consume any animal products.

This argument is alright. The statement was "if you eat animals to survive, you are still a vegan" which is bullshit.

lmao citation please.

sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/000632079390060E?via=ihub

This asserts otherwise

Again, they aren't killing seals to survive. If you choose to be somewhere it's not a necessity to kill something. Brainlets shouldn't be allowed to give their opinions on things they don't understand.

>>Why do non-vegans pretend to have an understanding of veganism?

Conversations over guys, time to go to another thread.

read
>millions of incest

chuckld

>Brainlets shouldn't be allowed to give their opinions on things they don't understand.

You mean like vegans on a lifting board?

If you care about the environment there are a million more effective ways to make a difference. Being a vegan is meaningless, no different really than hash tagging a cause you believe in. You get to be proud of yourself without any actual accomplishment.

From a health perspective I know you all discuss how easy it is to achieve a healthy diet but most vegans are sickly as fuck. It can be healthy the same way any respectable diet can be healthy but takes considerably more effort because we evolved to be great at processing the nutrients in animals.

I'll eat two chicken breasts instead of one because of this shitty thread.