So Veeky Forums is vegan a meme or can you actually build muscle?

So Veeky Forums is vegan a meme or can you actually build muscle?

Other urls found in this thread:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864
greatveganathletes.com/bodybuilders
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

You can definitely make gains just look at Clarence

Calories are calories, stop being stupid son.

You can definitely make it as vegan. It's neither harder nor easier.

Unless you are an idiot.

pic related natty vegan, you be the judge of it.

veganism/vegetarianism was always a meme

and no, everyone knows there are no non-animal protein sources

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864
>It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.

Calories are calories. You can get all the essential amino acids from plants as long as you eat a variety of food. Ie. not just corn all day. It's not necessarily more difficult to get a lot of protein on a plantbased diet, rather than an omnivorous diet. One of the pros of a plant based diet is that your risk of heart disease, cancer and diabetes drastically goes down, while an animal product heavy diet brings all of that up. It makes bulking a lot more safer, and of course ethical.

greatveganathletes.com/bodybuilders

Also don't worry about soy.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224
>No significant effects of soy protein or isoflavone intake on T, SHBG, free T, or FAI were detected regardless of statistical model.

So having scoops of soy isolate protein powder is fine. But there are of course other alternatives like pea protein.

Only on steroids for actual nattys you need saturated fat and all of the fiber in vegan diet will make your shbg go up also it is very difficult to eat enough as a vegan (because of all the fiber you will be full as fuck and shit 3-4 times a day)
Also big chance you will have a shit copper to zinc ratio (way too much copper coupled withe the fact that theres already too much copper in water and shit if your copper is too high it inhibits zinc and zinc is important for T).

>no non animal proteins
wild rice and beans, spinach, walnuts, lentils, almonds

Look up nutritarian diet by Joel Fuhrman
Also look into John Mcdougall

but nobody needs soy
powders are not healthy ever
but I forgot that this board doesn't care about health, only about looking like muscular carnival freaks

You certainly can gain muscle on a vegan diet with the correct doses of anabolic steroids and other questionable supplements
Otherwise it just doesn't happen and you stay pale and weak.

>literally only does arms
>benches sub 200lbs after 8 years training

Im good thanks

>you can be anything you want when you grow up johnny
>one of dozen/12k+ selected for nasa
>lebron james
>vegan and built
possible but highly unlikely

Clarence made all his gains as a meat-eater, and he's on gear anyway.

Every person posted and mentioned in this thread is on gear.
If you're willing to ride the magical bike you can get swole eating twinkies and pixie sticks.

>Clarence made all his gains as a meat-eater
Can this meme die? If his diet was inadequate he would not be able to maintain muscle mass. Fuck off.
Also, Name ONE (1) nutrient that can't be found on a vegan diet
>What is cronometer and mfp

He's only just started and he's been out with a shitload of injuries as of late.

His body is not getting what it needs from his diet to maintain and just WURK HURDER is not going to help.

>His body is not getting what it needs from his diet to maintain and just WURK HURDER is not going to help.
Name one nutrient you cannot get from a vegan source

Why do all major athletes who switch over to vegan see obvious drops in athletic ability and that no person who's been vegan for their entire lives has become a world class athlete.

I'll wait for your rebuttal.

...

So dont go vegan? We dont give a shit

He's a beautiful green man
Shut up

He only look goods when he's flexing, since it distracts from his pencil neck

on vegetarian you can but it's a bit of a hassle.
on vegan there will always be something wrong with you

isn't clerence vegetarian, not vegan? He's on roids anyway.

Why does he look so wierd

Vitamin B12

That's beside the point. A calorie isn't a calorie in the strictest sense. Depending on the type of food you eat, you have to catabolise it way more to make it functional. Burning more energy than meat eaters to make amino acids available to the body isn't a very efficient model of 'getting mad gains'.

Additionally, vegetable proteins are incomplete proteins, meaning they lack certain amino acids that meat has in spaces, you need to eat a shitload more of them in order to get the same amount and range of amino acids that you would get with meat.

Be omnivorous.
Ez gains.
Ez life. (inb4 atherosclerosis, you've been brainwashed by pro-vegan articles that compare perfect, healthy vegans with smoking non-exercising burgers. Vegans die in populational studies from CVD just as much as omnivorous people. Google age-related impairment of nitric oxide availability, age related reduction in blood vessel lumen diameter, aortic stiffness etc.)

Notice how vegans don't lime to post current body pics. Highly suspect

I have been advocating for veganism for many months on Veeky Forums and it's really demoralising and depressing to see the same fallacious and/or factually incorrect arguments against it. I will filter out the v-word from the catalog until I get to compile a wiki-like pastebin I can refer people like you to.

I'm a physiology major. Literally nobody in the science faculty of my uni is vegan, my lecturers get asked questions from vegans and basically shut everything down. There are no proven health benefits aside from out-of-context population studies or very minor differences that are made up for by someone exercising a few times a week. What's the point in restricting your diet arbitrarily when it's already been established and proven that AGEING is the killer here.

Be vegan if you are morally against the meat industry, that's fine. Don't rely on made-up science and try to con everyone else.

>Additionally, vegetable proteins are incomplete proteins, meaning they lack certain amino acids that meat has in spaces, you need to eat a shitload more of them in order to get the same amount and range of amino acids that you would get with meat.

Sauce

...

You are not intellectually honest. Your argument went from
>Vegan diets are inferior
To
>non vegan diets are not inferior

Wikipedia it you tard. Even militant e-doctor vegans can't deny this. You have to compensate for lack of amino acid availability by eating a greater variety of vegetables to try and get a more complete amino acid profile. Problem is, vegetables don't have a tremendous amount of protein in them, so you need to eat significant quantities.

What most vegans do is eat a certain amount of something like soy protein, not count macros, and just assume they've done enough for ez gains.

>I'm ill informed about the topic I'm arguing about, so I'll redirect by attacking the phrasing and make implications about the character of my opponent.

I was saying non-vegan diets are superior for gains because it's easier.
Non vegan diets are not inferior for health. Never made any other allegations.

Name one nutrient you cannot get from a vegan source
Easy, Charisma and Likable Personality

>>I'm ill informed about the topic I'm arguing about
Kek, whatever fits your narrative lad
>so I'll redirect by attacking the phrasing and make implications about the character of my opponent.
I didn't make implications, I was pretty direct. Your argument went from "B12 tho", "amino acids tho" and "my professors shut vegans up" to "vegan vs non vegan studies have poor control groups" and "meat just makes life easier"

I just use a protein powder that has the full amino profile

It's pretty easy dipshit

>B12
moot point, people on a standard american diet are curiously more deficient in B12 than the (strictly/ovo-lacto) vegetarian population, probably because vegetarians tend to inform themselves more about their diet. As long as we want to wash our food, drink pure water and eat non-rotting meat captured in the wild, we are prone to be Vitamin B12 deficient.
>compare perfect, healthy vegans with smoking non-exercising burgers
bullshit.
>I'm a physiology major
and I'm a doctor
>Non vegan diets are not inferior for health
That's logically the same of affirming that ANY other diet are is AT LEAST least equal if not better than a vegan one. That's wrong and fallacious.
The best trade-off seems offered by the so-called pesce/pollotarian diets you find in the (traditional) Mediterranean diet (not so widespread any more) and in Japan. Meat consumption advantages are more evident for children and the elderly, where the advantages tend to be greater than the disadvantages. For the "middle life"/adult period there's plenty of consensus in saying that the less the meat, the better.
You can't draw a fire-and-forget diet for literally anyone on the planet regardless of their age, occupation, habits, physiological condition; the vegetarian diets (strict, ovo-lacto and semi) seem to be the best approximation of a diet providing health benefits for adults 20-60.
About "getting enough proteins": you can manage to get all the proteins you need for you gym needs without eating meat. I'm ashamed to still hear these kind of arguments in the current year.

All the famous meat eaters are on steroids too. But you're right it must be those extra scoops of protein powder.

And the B12 that only exists in meat, don't forget about that

>person who's been vegan for their entire lives has become a world class athlete
he fulfills neither of these criteria though

People who are more aware of their diets and health eat healthier then everyone else?
Wow, really?

>and I'm a doctor
Coo, and I'm a doctor (Phd) in human cellular metabolism and senescense.
I didn't post anything else in this thread, just wanted to let you guys know in case you continue this accreditation shitposting fest.

>B12
speaking of which, why don't I ever see vegans pounding down marmite?

This is true, but as a vegan bodybuilder or athlete you will have to make protein more of a priority. Plenty of vegan protein powders exist, and they work fine (I'm very intolerant to dairy so I use pea and/or rice isolates). I imagine if you were willing to have 2 shakes of those a day you'd be fine with no meat at all.

Marmite tastes like shit, but vegans do eat other forms of yeast. Nutritional yeast is said to be savoury and cheesy-like.

A doctorate in social studies doesn't mean much, familia.
As expected, you've brought nothing to the table except cast vague assertions around, designed to throw doubt over common knowledge. Weak effort, bro.

(I too can make agreements about nothing which sum up to nothing)

Post degree

He's vegan, he is on roids but his diet is amazing

He was 90-92kg before turning vegan.
He's now at 100kg and even a bit above that as a vegan.

I mean, he's on steroids now but it doesn't change the fact that he DID NOT make all his gains as a meat-eater

All plants have all amino acids. The only "food" that lacks any amino acids is gelatin that lacks the amino acid tryptophan. The "complete amino acid profile" is a meme that has 0 scientific basis. How do you even imagine that would work?

vegans have higher zinc levels

The idea that high SHBG is bad is complete broscience in the truest form

guys i weigh 67kg am a tiny vegan skelly but just started to lift. im a 178m manlet btw. how much protein do i need daily to bulk up? currently im eating about 120-140g a day, tho im considering buying a rice protein powder which would easily let me put that figure to at least 150-160

>vague assertions around
You're the only one spreading vague assertions, gauging at anecdotal unverifiable episodes we are sure totally occurred in your campus, plus various logical fallacies. OTOH we have papers and actual research. I'm not supposed to spoon-feed a intellectually dishonest kid (spreading bullshit on unreferenced papers, and I saw also on "protein completeness", displaying a total lack of knowledge on the matter) on a hikikomori forum; the papers are out there at your fingertips.

Or maybe get a real hobby

keep a varied diet, sleep and train, you're doing good. 120~140g a day is fine, even if we adjust per PDCAA on veg sources. Mix legumes and your sources of protein in general

pls respond. just wanna know how much protein i realistically need

The "complete amino acid profile" meme is also retarded if you look at the ammount of essential amino acids that we can't synthesize ourselfs that we ACTUALLY need to eat to survive or even to maximize gains.
Not a lot of them.

Besides the amino acids we get the second greatest effect on the body protein has is improving nitrogen balance in the blood.

Pea protein
Soy protein
Rice protein
All of those have been tested against whey protein which is often considered to be of "best quality" and when total protein consumption is equalled even the "less complete proteins" have no detectable difference not only on normal bodily function or even performance/hypertrophy.

>67 kg at 178cm
You need more calories, not just protein
Count calories, eat lots of nuts and pb
>Rice protein powder
If you're going to fall for the (((protein powder))) meme, at least buy pea. Rice is very expensive. At least where I live.
Nice quads, how much do you squat?

thanks m8. my diet is quite varied i'd say. eat about 3-4 different legumes daily along with plenty of nuts and seeds. oats in the morning. think i should try to get in more fresh greens and veggies here and there

nah its not about the protein powder meme, just that i like the idea of eating a bowl of oats with some flax seeds almond butter and rice powder in the morning and already having eaten 50-60g of protein

K, just do your research mate. In Europe, MP offers way cheaper pea than rice (or basically any vegan) protein which is where I was getting my numbers from

If you are going to buy a protein powder, get hemp protein. It has a really nice fatty acid profle, with a good omega 3 to 6 ratio, high in iron, zinc and several other minerals.

well, I squat lmao2.25pl8s (110 kg) x 5 @ 87kg
somewhere between intermediate and proficient according to symmetric strength
trained seriously only since November

thanks lad, i'll check it out
i did consider hemp too. i heard somewhere that
it wasnt as absorbable as rice/pea, but im aware that i didnt put in the research to challenge that claim, dunno if you heard of that? aware of the added micronutrient advantages of hemp though, seems superior in that sense for sure

Do you not know anything about nutrition?
Stop googling obscure shit and start reading up the basics. Animal proteins are complete because animals, like us, synthesize essential amino acids, vitamins and minerals from their diet. People eating animals takes out the middleman of expending extra energy to catabolise plant matter. Animals also produce different amino acids that we don't produce and vice versa. E.g. Cats don't produce taurine and need taurine supplements in cat food, but we produce plenty.

The protein is incomplete in plants because they aren't readily 'packaged' in a usable form, and as you might guess, not all plant proteins have the same structure and makeup. Humans also can't produce certain amino acids even with all the nucleotides and good will in the world. Some planets have elements of what we need which are relatively bioavailable, but only have trace elements, and you need to compensate with much larger portions, and even then, they aren't complete themselves,
And you need even more of some other food.

QE fucking D
Vegan diets need to be extremely varied for optimum nutrition.

You can do it.

You revealed your powerlevel. You've never critically reviewed a scientific article in your life, have you?

I assure you, my good friend, if you want logical fallacies, I'd suggest you start reading the 'articles' you think are supporting you.

The only amino acids we cannot synthesize internally are leucine, isoleucine and valine.
Please, go to cronometer and log in 2 tablespoons pb, 4 slices whole wheat bread (I don't know what cronometer considers a slice, mine were 380 kcal total. Adjust accordingly.), 200 g raw pasta and 200 g raw lentils.
Please, log those in and tell me which BCAA I am deficient in.

>Animal proteins are complete because animals, like us, synthesize essential amino acids

hahahahahaha you fucking spudd, if we synthesized the essential amino acids they wouldn't be essential you fuckhead. Didn't really think that one through right?

Uh-oh! He looks better than me! Better deploy the ">steroids" and ">used to be a meat eater 4 years ago" drones!

> Some planets have elements of what we need which are relatively bioavailable
>Planets

Can you actually hear your tiny brain rattle around in your skull?

>stating the obvious makes you a drone

He's pretty obviously on roids

How can you tell?

High body mass but very low bodyfat. Neither alone are indicative of roids, but together, it's a pretty good sign.

>dogposting about phrasing
I'm on a mobile, I ain't gunna proof read for a bunch of googling fuckwits who think they are clever

And if we timed how long it takes to catabolise your chosen foods compared to the equivalent amount in meat, and measured the quantities extracted, I'm sure we'll all be pleasantly surprised.

So anyone that is big and not fat is on steroids?

Read and Google nitrogen balance vegans

Pretty sure his ffmi is below 24

So is pretty obviously everyone else worth talking about, like layne norton, latsbrah, brian turner, etc..
If this is your argument then you really have nothing else to say on the subject.

/thread
Protein is protein regardless of where you get it from.

Oh TWO doctors in this thread? I'm a wet nurse. The only logical protein is titty milk. Stop being pussyfolk and suck up the REAL proton. Vegans can't have titty milk because it comes from a mom.
>Sipatitty

>that first titsip of the day
Feels good, man

Tittymilk is 100% vegan, as long as it's with the moms consent.