You have 10 seconds to convince me extended water fasting is bad without saying "it's a meme!" or spouting other...

You have 10 seconds to convince me extended water fasting is bad without saying "it's a meme!" or spouting other convention wisdom.

Other urls found in this thread:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Water fasting is objectively the easiest and healthiest way to lose weight.

People need food to stay alive.

>inb4 can survive months without food

Yes, but it's objectively unhealthy

you dont develop proper dietary habits

The complex science of not eating food everyone. Make sure you subscribe to my youtube channel where I will talk about different not eating food strategies and don't forget to pick up my ebook which contains a lot of information on not eating food. All really ground breaking stuff we are touching on never heard before research on not eating food.

Conventional wisdom
Not relevant to the efficacy and health benefits of fasting itself

You have 10 seconds to convince me south beach diet is bad without saying "it's a meme!" or spouting other convention wisdom.

It's conventional wisdom that people need food to live?

Perhaps try air fasting, solves all your issues far faster than water fasting.

The point that is it objectively unhealthy is conventional wisdom

Yes you need food to live but you don't need daily food intake to live and nothing in that comment provided any evidence or rationale against a time limited water fast

Because you probably don't even know what is true hunger.

Eating every hour every hour you are awake has many health benefits. Also I like to hook myself up to a nutrient rich drip while I sleep to maximize health gains. Please do not respond with convention wisdom.

>HERBERT M. SHELTON
>He saw himself as the champion of original natural hygiene ideas from the 1830s
>In 1942, Shelton was charged with negligent homicide and "treating and offering to treat a human being without a state medical license" for starving a patient to death.[4] The case was never tried and charges were dropped.
>By 1972, at the age of 77, he was completely bedridden from a degenerative neuro-muscular disease believed to be Parkinson's disease.[4] He died thirteen years later, unable to improve his own health despite many attempts.

Even a pioneer of water fasting couldn't fix himself.

...

What about the "you will regain all the fat you burned" meme? I'm genuinely asking cause I'm quite ignorant

lmao
food is enjoyable

...

Only if you eat more than you burn

it's a meme!

Typically fasting leads to binge eating habits. Combining binge eating, lack of nutritional knowledge, and calorie counting skills means people tend to end up heavier.

What type of fasting? Do you mean like 16-8, 5-2, OMAD style or extended water fasts? I think there is a very big difference between the two categories

There's a ton of misinformation about fasting and fatties hate it, so you know it's good if you do it right.

Can't answer that. There are three variables. How intense the diet is for the dieter, how much will power the dieter has, and how much dietary knowledge the dieter has. Fuck up any one of those three and it's usually negative.

It can easily happen if you go back into a standard eating habit too quickly. You have to eat very little food coming out of an extended water fast, like fruits and soup, for another extended period of time so you don't just balloon up

>lived to 90 years old while being bedridden and with parkinsons for that long

Huh, still not a single coherent argument against water fasting.

.03 cents has been added to your account.

It's just a low-carb, high protein diet. Not bad, probably too many calories for a proper semi-fasting diet and too many carbs for keto.

Conventional wisdom, argument void.

The first 2 to 3 days is pretty rough.

Low calorie diets don't have that.

Have some legitimate proof of the contrary.
This was a 27 year old male on a 382 day water fast with vitamins.

"During 382 days of the fast, the patient's weight decreased from 456 to 180 lb. Five years after undertaking the fast, Mr A.B.'s weight remains around 196 lb."

Please read
In what ways (if any) is it objectively unhealthy?
Sounds like you know absolutely fuck all on the subject.

The study heavily monitored the man's metabolism, blood, etc and they reported no declines until 1 YEAR into the fast.

Wow... compelling stuff. Great image I will share this with my private facebook group.

Here is the study in full
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/

So one guy drastically reduced his calorie intake for a year and maintained it for 5 years after that. My whole world is a lie. I'm literally shaking.

Drastically? Wew. He took in ZERO calories for a fucking year and maintained after breaking the fast.

Unless you've studied this yourself I guarantee you didn't know this was even possible yet still you act like a hyperfaggot.

>He took in ZERO calories for a fucking year
Someone please explain to me how it's possible to stay alive by in-taking zero energy for an entire year? Maybe your wording is just stupid as fuck but I don't get it.

>what is fat

You can survive on just body fat?

Your body will use up all of your stored glucose first, then start dipping into your fat stores and some small unneeded muscle mass and excess useless shit in your body to make up for the stuff that it can't produce on it's own.

So if you do go without eating for a while and have a bit of fat on you, as long as you remain active, do some small exercise to maintain muscle mass, and maybe take a multvitamin you'll be safe and healthy.

The multi is needed so that your body doesn't decide to eat your organs so that it can make or use the certain things that it needs to function.

Not entirely, which is why he took vitamins and electrolytes. Water, salt, and a multivitamin a day can take you far it seems.

wtf i love fasting now

What do you want me to say? It is a calorie deficit diet. One man did it with the help of professionals.

thats why keto and intermittent fasting is all the rage now on Veeky Forums

This. I hadn't quite gotten the hang of managing my intake after a fast, but I know the times I put weight back on immediately were my own damn fault. I've since gotten a lot better at it, and now I find water-fasting much easier than any other method.

I find that after a fast, if I ramp up my intake slowly, then my own appetite tends to settle on a lighter diet than I was on before. This is much more pleasant than going low calorie.

Have some Girls in Peril.

to be expected.
the stomach is a balloon. the more you inflate it, the greater its capacity becomes.

therefore through prolonged fasting, you end up being full on less.

its also why its better to eat many small meals than 1 large meal daily (among other reasons).

Wow the bullshit in this post is off the charts.

>therefore through prolonged fasting, you end up being full on less.
I found this to be true, mate

Yes inflating balloons and many small meals. Thank you dr oz.

And veganism.
It's litterally people starving themselves while taking in just enough calories and nutrients to live.

So whats the issue if there are no adverse health effects?

No one cares if you starve yourself you dumb faget.

Extreme calorie deficit diets have a shit track record on your average 1st world living person. The people who sell the fad diet shit and pitch it to vulnerable people are evil and I hope they die alone. That is the issue.

Actually no.
All diets have a shit trac record.
All fucking diets, as long as they don't kill you are permanently cripple you, work.

The problem is that people have no goddamned idea of how to change their life to maintain that weight loss.
They have no idea of how to keep it off and most everyone thinks that it's an all or nothing kind of thing.

No one knows what balance is and only lives in full extremes because that's where all of the thrills are. That's where the same kind of emotional bullshit that drives them to eat so goddamned much lives.

no a lie bro, I lost 33lbs within 2 weeks and after that i regained 4lbs back (probably water and glucose) and within 1 month I lost 6lbs again. About to do another water fast for 2 weeks or maybe 3.

You are a fucking moron that is completely uneducated and wrong in every regard. Watch the fucking videos at least before you criticize them. Why do people have the urge to comment on things that they have NO CLUE about?

Firstly, his videos focus on overweight, obese, and those with metabolic syndrome. He has cited dozens of studies in which the process of determining the cause of weight gain in these patients and a reluctance of weight loss, even when comparing patients on a caloric deficit. Insulin is directly responsible and is KNOWN to be response. It's very well understood function is to empty the blood of glucose, either by pouring it into lean tissue via insulin-activated receptors, or being stored as tryglyceride and fat. Since insulin-receptors are often downregulated in those with metabolic syndrome, this causes weight gain as fat instead of being used by other tissue. It doesn't dispute laws of thermodynamics or otherwise. The ultimate goal of fasting for Fung is to reestablish healthy insulin receptor concentration and establish healthy blood glucose activity, which in turn causes weight loss for overweight, obese, or diabetic patients. All of this is well documented and understood without a shadow of doubt or speculation.

I agree with this post. People who sell fad diets are still evil.

blah blah blah no one cares about your timeshare dude

tl;dr is a viable argument, yes.

I don't even know what point of mine you have an issue with.

One of the most interesting aspects of fasting (to me) aside from it's potential for weight loss is the effect that it has on hormones.

For body builders fasting may be less attractive, but for powerlifters and pure performance athletes the amount of circulating GH coupled with the increases in adrenaline may result in faster recovery and higher peak force output potential.

Additionally, during periods of re feeding following strenuous, multi-day fasts, there is evidence to suggest that the hormonal, anabolic response to food is increased as well as insulin sensitivity increasing.

The general consensus seems to be that bouts of periodic fasting (multi-day fasting), radically improves the body's efficiency in terms of energy expenditure and storage.

the study conducted on fasting found a 5% loss of total muscle mass in untrained individuals, in 2 weeks of fasting.
That is a large amount of muscle mass, and it could be higher for trained individuals.

HGH doesnt do shit for muscle growth. and you dont know if trained individuals get the same resonse as they already get a response from training.

Untrained individuals could simply get a better hormone profile simply because of the stress caused by fasting. As they dont recieve any stress from any other places, like exercise.

Why would it be higher for trained individuals? There's demand being placed on the system for tissue repair and maintenance

The body wouldn't release HGH if it didn't have a desire to maintain lean tissue homeostasis in the absence of food, which implies to me at least that while it may not directly impact muscle growth, it inhibits it's breakdown.

In a certain sense, training heavy while fasting (but avoiding high volume sets to failure), could potentially just be a method of redirecting stored fat energy to lean tissue with minimal losses to total muscle mass in the shortest time frame possible.

Mm, no.

Objectively unhealthy is a constant flow of sugars into your blood.

Hence why we have so many chronic diseases these days secondary to that fact.

The human body has only relatively recently been exposed to frequent high calorie meals throughout the day.

You seem to forget the majority of homo sapiens exist was spent in prolonged periods of fasting and brief bursts of feasting.

not eating anything cause you to lose muscle faster then with a high protein diet with a moderate deficit.
If untrianed individuals lose 5% of their total muscle mass in two weeks then that number is probably way higher for trained individuals. As trained individuals also lsoe more muscle mass during a cut than untrained individuals. The more muscle you have. the greater the loss will be.

Sugar isnt to blame for chronic diseases.

The sudden lack of movement/exercise and the caloric surplus is.

We used to eat the same amount of kcals 50 years ago, except we moved more, and didnt get fat becuase if the increased energy expenditure.

>he got memed this easily

if you lose weight, have lower caloric requirements and go back to eating the way you were when you got fat, what do you think is gonna happen ? you're gonna get fat again, quicker this time BUT if you lose the weight, calculate your needs based on the your new bw and go from there its totally possible to keep all of it off, the most famous example of this is that one study years ago about a guy in scotland that fasted 382 days, lost ~120kg and ended up ~80kg, started eating got up to 90kg and five years later when they did a checkup on him he was still 90kg

> We used to eat the same amount of kcals 50 years ago, except we moved more, and didnt get fat becuase if the increased energy expenditure.

Patently wrong, go do even 5 minutes of study.

The magnitude of our caloric intake has increased every decade.

Constant consumption is to blame.

50 years ago the trend was to eat breakfast, a small lunch, and nothing till dinner.

These days its: breakfeast, morning tea, lunch, afternoon tea, dinner, dessert, snack before bed.

How long is "extended"? And prolonged calorie restriction will temporarily shut down bodily functions not necessary for survival, so expect to see your libido drop. Which may not be a bad thing, I'm just sayin.

Muscle
Protein
Breakdown/synthesis

I swear I only ever hear about this retarded fucking meme on Veeky Forums.

Protein sparing modified fasts work, but water fasts are absolutely retarded.

Trained individuals on a cut tend to do a lot of activity to speed up catabolism.
Remember, losing weight is inherently catabolic.

Of course they are going to lose a lot of excess muscle mass.

Also, the people who lost 5% muscle mass lost it not because their body ate it up for energy/nutrients.

It used that muscle because their bodies are not heavy and fat and thus is not placing the constant stimulus on that muscles from just basic day to day activity that made it big in the first place.

There is a reason that when I tell fat as fat ass people how to lose weight I always ALWAYS tell them to do basic calisthenics workouts that have clear defined steps from totally untrained and weak to advanced to help maintain muscle as well as hurry along the weight loss.

Also since they no longer have the constant anabolic environment that comes with constant eating and rest they were bound to lose muscle.

Simple as that.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the body wanting to burn muscle first and everything to do with the body simply getting rid of the excess musclea along with the fat.

I can garauntee you with 100% certainty that if those people that were doing that fast did some pushups squats situps and some kind of upper back exercise they're muscle loss would have been far lower.

Jason Fung is a meme

>fasted 382 days
Then he would be dead.

this is annectdoatal at best but my father used to do water fasts when he was young and now (at 60 yo) he has a mirriad of bone and joint problems (athritis being one of them)

water fasting is a meme

And what happened in the meantime?

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/

water fasting is retarded and it requires constant supplementation or you will fucking destroy your body, and in some people they can actually die short term from it.

not a lot
he worked as a construction engineer
he didnt lift or put any particular effort on his joints
his body is just fucked from from a bad diet

there is an increase of about 250kcals since the 50s, its small, but the energy expenditure have still dropped a lot. Still doesnt mean that sugar is to blame for chronic diseases.

Except, sugar has an underlying pathology that ties into several chronic diseases.

Including: T2DM, peripheral vascular disease, coronary artery diseases, peripheral neuropathy, kidney damage, non-alcoholic liver disease.

That's off the top of my head.

My question is: where were you educated that sugar has no link to chronic diseases?

>Trained individuals on a cut tend to do a lot of activity to speed up catabolism.
if its 500kcals deficit it doesnt matter if its from increase in exercise or decrease in caloric consumption, in trained individuals.

>Also, the people who lost 5% muscle mass lost it not because their body ate it up for energy/nutrients.
ยจ
yes, thats the exact reason. Why would you think otherwise?

>It used that muscle because their bodies are not heavy and fat and thus is not placing the constant stimulus on that muscles from just basic day to day activity that made it big in the first place.
Lifting weights is the most muscle sparing thing you can do. The second most muscle sparing thing you can do is to eat enough protein with a moderate caloric deficit, when it comes to weight loss. People who fast doesnt eat calories nor do they eat protein.

And even if you are trained, the more muscle mass you have the easier it is to lose it. Which is why its more difficult for untrianed individuals to lose muscles than an advanced lifter.

Yes, you will always lose muscle on a caloric deficit, but the amount of muscle lsot will be different. Which is why everyone is doing a moderate caloric deficit with a high protein amount to hinder breakdown of muscle as much as possible.
Fasting doesnt have this quality. Youll lose more muscle mass on a fasting diet.

>I can garauntee you with 100% certainty that if those people that were doing that fast did some pushups squats situps and some kind of upper back exercise they're muscle loss would have been far lower.
yeah, lower than people who didnt lift. But more than people who lift and have a proper diet.

It seems more like fasting is the newest fad. were everyone think its magic. When in SOME cases it may be usefull, but for others its inferior.

>Except, sugar has an underlying pathology that ties into several chronic diseases.
i would like to see the evidence for it. Because ALL of the diseases you lsited are caused by eating too much and lack of exercise.

.. Right .. if you're not even going to type the phrases into google there's no point continuing.

Sure thing boss, all those people I see M-F with these morbidities didn't get them from a high sugar diet .. cool.

I'll pass that onto the AMA.

Anyway.

>if its 500kcals deficit it doesnt matter if its from increase in exercise or decrease in caloric consumption, in trained individuals.
okay...
it seems like you're trying to defend something but i'm not entirely sure what.


>yes, thats the exact reason. Why would you think otherwise?
You should really read everything.

>Lifting weights is the most muscle sparing thing you can do.
Resistance training in all forms is how you maintain muscle, stupid.
>The second most muscle sparing thing you can do is to eat enough protein with a moderate caloric deficit, when it comes to weight loss.
So not fasting or eating on too much of a cut spares muscle? HOLY SHIT!!
>People who fast doesnt eat calories nor do they eat protein.
Yes of course.
>And even if you are trained, the more muscle mass you have the easier it is to lose it. Which is why its more difficult for untrianed individuals to lose muscles than an advanced lifter.
Yes. But natural trained individuals who have a lot of fat to lose on strict HEAVY cuts or fasting will lose muscle mass. That's just how it is.

>Yes, you will always lose muscle on a caloric deficit, but the amount of muscle lsot will be different. Which is why everyone is doing a moderate caloric deficit with a high protein amount to hinder breakdown of muscle as much as possible.
Yes. But this is about fasting for heavy normal individuals. Nothing you've posted has fuck all to do with anything in my post and seems to be you defending the basic bodybuilding gym monkey bulk and cut thing.

Type what phrases the name of the diseases?
Type 2 diabetes is linked with obesity. Not sugar intake, all though it becomes a major factor after you have it.

Peripheral vasculare disease is linked with obesity, not sugar.

Coronary artery disease is linked with obesity, not sugar intake.

Peripheral neuropathy is a common symptom of T2DM.

And the last two are comon in obese people.

Obesity isnt caused by increased sugar intake. Its caused by overconsumption and lack of exercise. Just because some people get a lot of their calories from sugar doesnt imply sugar is the reason.

>Fasting doesnt have this quality. Youll lose more muscle mass on a fasting diet.
Massive natural bodybuilders with low bodyfat going on a strict cut or fasting will lose muscle period. If they are within the 12-15% bodyfat range and are fasting or doing a strict cut then it's a fucking garauntee that they will lose muscle mass. This has nothing to do with anything. This is you bringing up an extreme because you're terrified that I'll discredit da eat big then cut bodybuilding thing.

>yeah, lower than people who didnt lift. But more than people who lift and have a proper diet.
You are fucking retarded.

>It seems more like fasting is the newest fad. were everyone think its magic. When in SOME cases it may be usefull, but for others its inferior.
Fasting works.
Intermittent fasting works
Protein modified fasting works
Short fasts work.
There is no fad here.
This reality.
No, this is not for people with eating disorders and problems with food. This is for normal people who just want to feel better and drop a few pounds quickly.

So many people talk about this meme diet but why are there so few before and after pictures?

And don't post that youtube fat fuck, if you ACTUALLY watch his video he explains the pictures aren't a true before and after of the fast itself, the before picture was months before he went on the fast

If you basic TDEE is 2000 say, then fasting is 4 x more time effective than a 500 calorie deficit

Now will you lose more muscle in a 2 week fast or 8 week cut?

And those are an extra 6 weeks of bulking you get too

Because no matter how much the keto / if communities spout shit about how it's good for health / how it's not just for weight loss , it doesn't change the fact that 98% of both of theses communities are obese people who look like shit and just search way to be "healthy" will still being allowed to do "walking" as their only exercice .

If you're an obese person spending all of his time in front of his computer you could benefit from fasting because you're already in a near comatose state anyway .
If you aren't in this category of subhuman then there is no reason to fast , eat your fucking carbs and fruits and do fucking exercise , you get way more HGH and hormonal benefit from exercice fueled by carbs than through some meme fasting .

Walking is exercise.
As a matter of fact powerwalking burns more calories then heavy lifting with the added benefit of being able to do it longer and being able to do it every day.
And why is walking in quotation marks?

Source?

I'm sick of this cavemen were healthy meme

They were not fucking healthy

Nobody in history has been healthier than us or lived better lives

Why the fuck do people believe this crap? You want to live like an abo go into a forest.

>"Walking" is "exercise."

Maybe to americans

How many cavemen had diabetes?

Modern medicine has improved are lives but modern food is making it worse

Nobody force people to eat burger and nobody force people to watch Netflix all day longs .

The fact that this basic acticvity is shunned because it's seen as an "exercise" and inferior to running or lifting or whatever else shows how lazy people are.

If you walk just 1 extra hour a day and changed nothing else, you'll look and feel healthier. Period.

nobody force people to eat 3 meals a day, or eat every day

Well I do real sports and my TDEE is close to 4500 so I do need to eat multiple meals a day and not cut out on sugar like a ketard .